Free Throw Practice...

[Dr. Blackheart]

So, we have had much back and forth banter about free throws, spurred by Buzz's comment that "we don't practice free throws".   There were many interpretations about what he really meant by that quote...and I am sure that those discussions will be on-going after every close game.  However, let's level-set pre-season with some coaching statistics.

•   Buzz's teams have been the best FT% shooters in Marquette recorded basketball history, spanning 11 coaches since 1951 at a rate of 73.3% vs. a program average of 68.4%.  Buzz's Three Amigo senior team attempted and made the 2nd most free throws in MU's history (668/918), with two poor free throw shooter starters in DJ and Burke on the floor.
•   TC's and KO's teams were tied for second at 71.1%
•   Hank:  69.8%
•   Dukiet:  68.9%
•   Nagle:  68.0%
•   Al:  67.8%
•   Rick:  67.8%
•   Winter:  67.2%
•   Deane:  66.3%
•   Hickey:  64.4%

So, did the HOF coaches' teams practice FT's too much, inducing mental cramps in their shooters, while Buzz  spends practices teaching his players to efficiently work his system to put them in the right place to shoot successfully  (and get fouled in the match-up he wanted--see free throw rates on Wes and Jimmy)?  Does The Al provide the players more time to shoot and practice on their own?   Is the current staff better at teaching shooting technique?  Or is it because seniors shoot at higher rates as they are used to the pressure?  Will our 2010-11 team, with many new faces shoot at an above average clip?  Or will Buzz limit minutes to the experienced players?

Let the banter begin...

[Canadian Dimes]

Well the resident know it all  who took grad courses under three hall of fame coaches(whom he personally knows and has on speed dial, just ask him)  insists they must be practiced within the confines of the allotted 20 hour team practice limits, he witnessed it...actually probably suggested it. 

Just wait until we have a bad free throw shooting performance to hear it again.  If we shoot 90% every game....crickets.

[Golden Avalanche]

Well the resident know it all  who took grad courses under three hall of fame coaches(whom he personally knows and has on speed dial, just ask him)  insists they must be practiced within the confines of the allotted 20 hour team practice limits, he witnessed it...actually probably suggested it. 

Just wait until we have a bad free throw shooting performance to hear it again.  If we shoot 90% every game....crickets.

Is your reaction to missed free throws down the stretch the same whether it be Dominic James or Darius Johnson-Odom?

[🏀]

Taking a look at the percentages, we are debating a difference of 6% between the worst and best case coaches. I believe Buzz's high percentages right now can be contributed to a low data available, but realistically all of the coaches are on par with NCAA averages, so what's this debate even worth?

[Coleman]

I think what people remember more than the quantity of missed free throws is when they happen. If they are at the end of a game in a high pressure situation, there's going to be criticism. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know, but its a lot easier to target a player or coach for missed free throws at the end of a game.


I think its important to simulate those high pressure situations in practice (if that's even possible). I also think that the more veterans you have on a team, the more those players are going to be used to those situations. We have a young team this year, so don't be surprised if we miss some critical end-of-game free throws down the stretch, even if our percentages are roughly the same.

[cheebs09]

I remember reading last year that in the open gyms that the once you got to the winning number of points, the only way to end the game was to step to the line and make a free throw. Otherwise the game kept going. I think that's about the best way to simulate it. Guys are tired and have to make a free throw with the game on the line.

[MUBurrow]

This will probably be interpreted as just being contrarian, but I wonder what the FT% look like at other schools too.

It certainly seems to me that as time goes on, the percentages get better and better. Top 3 in order are Buzz, TC, KO.  I think that it just reflects a development of the game.  As the game evolved and became more slash-oriented, etc even at the HS levels, players are just used to FTs becoming a more integral facet.  Of course there were exceptions but I think its just that the modern recruit/NCAA player is used to getting to the line and making it count as a crucial part of his game.  The days of a 4 playing exclusively in the post is over, and today they play much more similarly to what a 2 or a 3 used to be (probably with more slashing).  Players today just fancy themselves scorers.

Its likely that the best FT% by coach at most NCAA schools are the most recent/one of the most recent.


edited to ensure that no one has a tizzy when i listed best FT% in chronological order, instead of reverse chronological/by %.

[mu-rara]

I think what people remember more than the quantity of missed free throws is when they happen. If they are at the end of a game in a high pressure situation, there's going to be criticism. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know, but its a lot easier to target a player or coach for missed free throws at the end of a game.


I think its important to simulate those high pressure situations in practice (if that's even possible). I also think that the more veterans you have on a team, the more those players are going to be used to those situations. We have a young team this year, so don't be surprised if we miss some critical end-of-game free throws down the stretch, even if our percentages are roughly the same.

The occasional pressure drill at the end of practice would be one way to accomplish this goal.  

Using regular practice time (there is precious little) for this is a waste.  These guys are D1 athletes, who should be disciplined enough to do what it takes, including practice free throws on their time.

[Coleman]

Using regular practice time (there is precious little) for this is a waste.  These guys are D1 athletes, who should be disciplined enough to do what it takes, including practice free throws on their time.

+1. This is something that needs to be done before/after practice. Buzz shouldn't waste time on this.

[Benny B]

I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about practice. We're talking about practice man. We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about practice.

[tower912]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

You beat me to it, Benny.   AI with one for the ages.   My second favorite ridiculous sports rant behind Denny Green. 

[dsfire]

This will probably be interpreted as just being contrarian, but I wonder what the FT% look like at other schools too.

It certainly seems to me that as time goes on, the percentages get better and better. Top 3 in order are Buzz, TC, KO.  I think that it just reflects a development of the game.  As the game evolved and became more slash-oriented, etc even at the HS levels, players are just used to FTs becoming a more integral facet.  Of course there were exceptions but I think its just that the modern recruit/NCAA player is used to getting to the line and making it count as a crucial part of his game.  The days of a 4 playing exclusively in the post is over, and today they play much more similarly to what a 2 or a 3 used to be (probably with more slashing).  Players today just fancy themselves scorers.

Its likely that the best FT% by coach at most NCAA schools are the most recent/one of the most recent.


edited to ensure that no one has a tizzy when i listed best FT% in chronological order, instead of reverse chronological/by %.

I was thinking the same thing, but free throw percentages have actually stayed at about the same level for decades: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/sports/basketball/04freethrow.html

[DaCoach]

The biggest problem with poor free throw shooting is with the players who have extraordinarily low percentages. It sets us up at the end of games as having to substitute out what may be one of our most integral players. DJ was a player who had a terrible FT% in his final year. There is no reason why he could not have gotten his average up to near 70% which might have made a difference in one or two games. His last year his FT% was 46%.

Now I don't suggest taking practice time to shoot free throws. But certainly one of the coaches should have insisted Dom spend as much time as needed to get his percentages up. It was clear that his form was inconsistent on the line. Since free throws are really muscle memory, it seems he never put in the time with someone who could help him.

[mu-rara]

The biggest problem with poor free throw shooting is with the players who have extraordinarily low percentages. It sets us up at the end of games as having to substitute out what may be one of our most integral players. DJ was a player who had a terrible FT% in his final year. There is no reason why he could not have gotten his average up to near 70% which might have made a difference in one or two games. His last year his FT% was 46%.

Now I don't suggest taking practice time to shoot free throws. But certainly one of the coaches should have insisted Dom spend as much time as needed to get his percentages up. It was clear that his form was inconsistent on the line. Since free throws are really muscle memory, it seems he never put in the time with someone who could help him.

not sure practice would have helped DJ.  His problem seemed to be in his head.

[MerrittsMustache]

not sure practice would have helped DJ.  His problem seemed to be in his head.

I was about to write this same thing. DJ had what some golfers refer to as "the yips." I'm guessing that he could knock down FTs without issue in practice.

[Benny B]

Is anyone here insinuating that DJ and DJO aren't good FT shooters?  If so, please answer the following:

1) Without thinking or looking anything up, name a specific instance where DJ/DJO made a FT.
2) Now, do the same, but name a specific instance where DJ/DJO missed a FT.

Honestly, which was easier to answer, #1 or #2?  Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, but I can't answer #2.  I can, however, give you three examples of #1:

DJ - 2 for 2, down 1 vs. Pitt with under a second left in OT to take the lead
DJ - vs. Duke, multiple FT's down the stretch to ice the game
DJO - vs. UCONN, 3 for 3 to tie the game and setup up JFB's game-winning jumper

The percentages may tell one story, but the three memories etched into my brain forever tell another.

[bilsu]

Early in his career DJ did make some clutch free throws. Actually my impression of DJ was that the tighter the game the more likely he would make a shot or a free throw. He certainly got worse in his career. His field goal percentage was really bad, but imagine what it would have been if you removed his dunk's and layups. DJO started slowly and missed some key free throws early in the season. His game become more reliable as the season went on. I would expect him to usually make the key free throw this year.

[NersEllenson]

I was about to write this same thing. DJ had what some golfers refer to as "the yips." I'm guessing that he could knock down FTs without issue in practice.

Agree - DJ's shooting went to hell after his freshman year...from the field and the floor.  I'm afraid someone at MU tried to tinker/tweak his mechanics from freshman year..and he never got his head right thereafter.  I recall the Valpo game when DJ was a freshman..he scored our last 15 or something points in that game and got us the win single handedly. 

If Dominic simply stayed the same type of free throw and field goal shooter as he was as a freshman, he would have been able to leave early for the NBA, and be an NBA player.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Taking a look at the percentages, we are debating a difference of 6% between the worst and best case coaches. I believe Buzz's high percentages right now can be contributed to a low data available, but realistically all of the coaches are on par with NCAA averages, so what's this debate even worth?

Statistically, that is actually significant via a one tailed test at 99.9...about 50 extra free throws per year...may seem small but indicative of Buzz's happenstance to put the "right' player on the line vs. any old one.  All about efficiency but the sample size is actually very large. Key point is that it is consistent with other factors even tho only a few years in terms of what the Buzzman looks for. Watch in 2011!

[77ncaachamps]

To solve the woes of shooting FTs, just score more than your opponent, don't send them in the line much, and shut them down.

Easy, right?

[NotAnAlum]

I think Buzz's comment "we don't practice free throws" was meant more as a retort to a question that he thought was focused on the wrong thing.  I don't think he meant that no MU player ever practices free throw mechanics with a coach or that making free throws isn't built into their scrimmages.  We know for a fact that it is.  As I recall that statement was made after a series of loses when MU players missed critical free throws at the end of games.  In a number of those situations it was Jimmy B who is known to have good mechanics and be a good free throw shooter who was missing.   What I think Buzz meant was that having the whole team stand around and practice shooting free throws would have wasted a lot of time and wouldn't have solved the problem anyway.  The problem was having the confidence and toughness to do whatever was necessary to win a close game down the stretch, whether it was protect the ball, execute a particular play make a steal or yes hit some free throws.  He got them to have that confidence and toughness by the way he coached them in practice and during the games that towards the end of the year they made those free throws more often than not and won those games.  I would bet that if any MU player in the future were to exhibit "Shaq like" free throw shooting technique would get some direct coaching during practice.

[Lennys Tap]

I think Buzz's comment "we don't practice free throws" was meant more as a retort to a question that he thought was focused on the wrong thing.  I don't think he meant that no MU player ever practices free throw mechanics with a coach or that making free throws isn't built into their scrimmages.  We know for a fact that it is.  As I recall that statement was made after a series of loses when MU players missed critical free throws at the end of games.  In a number of those situations it was Jimmy B who is known to have good mechanics and be a good free throw shooter who was missing.   What I think Buzz meant was that having the whole team stand around and practice shooting free throws would have wasted a lot of time and wouldn't have solved the problem anyway.  The problem was having the confidence and toughness to do whatever was necessary to win a close game down the stretch, whether it was protect the ball, execute a particular play make a steal or yes hit some free throws.  He got them to have that confidence and toughness by the way he coached them in practice and during the games that towards the end of the year they made those free throws more often than not and won those games.  I would bet that if any MU player in the future were to exhibit "Shaq like" free throw shooting technique would get some direct coaching during practice.

I would hope that this common sense post puts an end to all the ridiculous ones second guessing our "free throw practice philosophy". I won't hold my breath though.

[SacWarrior]

Free throws are something that a player should do on his own. At the college level the coaches really shouldn't be altering the shot process of any player, unless there's an obvious problem like if the player is a center and almost never takes jump shots. Players at the Big East level should be tweaking their own form and stroke. I honestly don't think there should be ANY team in Division I that takes time out of formal practice to shoot free throws.

[muhoosier260]

Is anyone here insinuating that DJ and DJO aren't good FT shooters?  If so, please answer the following:

1) Without thinking or looking anything up, name a specific instance where DJ/DJO made a FT.
2) Now, do the same, but name a specific instance where DJ/DJO missed a FT.

Honestly, which was easier to answer, #1 or #2?  Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, but I can't answer #2.  I can, however, give you three examples of #1:

DJ - 2 for 2, down 1 vs. Pitt with under a second left in OT to take the lead
DJ - vs. Duke, multiple FT's down the stretch to ice the game
DJO - vs. UCONN, 3 for 3 to tie the game and setup up JFB's game-winning jumper

The percentages may tell one story, but the three memories etched into my brain forever tell another.

How about a career 62% or 46% his senior year? I can't answer question 2 b/c it was far too often to narrow down to one instance. A good stroll down memory lane, but the fact is James was bad at free throws. He had some clutch free throws, given that he had the ball in his hands late in every game, he was bound to get to the line and hit a few.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Practicing free throws is like practicing 3 ft putts.

You need to do it. You need to do it often.

But, you don't need a club pro to stand there while you do it.

Provided you have a decent stroke (either hoops or golf) it's about practice and situation simulation, not about "coaching".