Who says renewing football at Marquette would cost $100 million?

[Marquette84]

For all the argument back and forth over what a football program would cost or how competitive we could be, the fundamental question comes down to this:

Will the BCS/FBS schools ever split from NCAA Division I and form their own division?  Forget worrying about conference realignment for a moment . . .is divisional realignment possible?  Probable?

If the answer is yes, then Villanova moving up makes all the sense in the world since it puts them on the "good" side of the divisional split for their basketball program. 

And Marquette (absent football) will find themselves on the "bad" side of the split.

You can argue all day that a newly formed football program at Marquette would be difficult, expensive, and probably non-competitive for years--if ever.  However, keep in mind that that difficult/expensive/crappy football team may be the only way we stay in the same basketball division with such schools as Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Villanova, Syracuse, etc.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Not an option.  Marquette has the minimum number of sports to be a DI school.  In fact, only 2 other schools out of 347 DI schools have as few as we do.  Everyone else has more than us.  Nothing to cut.

We are tied for last for the number of sports? With one of the highest budgets of non-football schools (the very highest?) in the country?

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

The first issue is building a stadium, finding a place to play. There's no facilities of the proper size in Milwaukee, so that means a new stadium. A 20k capacity stadium like Toyota Park in the Chicago area (but in MKE) will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-100 million dollars.

Second, you have to wonder if it could even be filled. Remember, sometimes MU has trouble selling out the Bradley Center to watch a pretty decent basketball team. Would anyone show up on a windy Saturday in November to sit outside to watch MU football get pasted?

Third, subsidy from Milwaukee for 5-6 extra dates a year? Not happening. When Milwaukee was trying to get an MLS stadium built just north of the BC a couple years ago, the City Council told them to take a hike, and that was for 20 soccer games a year, plus extra dates for concerts. Help ain't coming from the city.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We are tied for last for the number of sports? With one of the highest budgets of non-football schools (the very highest?) in the country?

That is correct.

"Division I Criteria

Division I member institutions have to sponsor at least seven sports for men and seven for women (or six for men and eight for women) with two team sports for each gender. "  14 total

1) Men's Basketball
2) Women's Basketball
3) Men's golf
4) Men's Soccer
5) Women's Soccer
6) Women's Volleyball
7) Men's Cross Country
8) Women's Cross Country
9) Men's Outdoor Track
10) Women's Outdoor Track
11) Men's Indoor Track
12) Women's Indoor Track
13) Men's Tennis
14) Women's Tennis

That's all we have.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The first issue is building a stadium, finding a place to play. There's no facilities of the proper size in Milwaukee, so that means a new stadium. A 20k capacity stadium like Toyota Park in the Chicago area (but in MKE) will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-100 million dollars.

You do not have to build an $80 to $100 million stadium to play FCS football.    FBS, probably, but not FCS.  You also don't have to put it in Milwaukee. 

Some examples of FCS football stadiums

 

[Avenue Commons]

It's fun to talk about and you can put me in the camp that a program akin to Villanova, Dayton or Georgetown as something I would be interested in, but I have personally heard from first Bill Cords and now Steve Cottingham that there will be no football at Marquette. Period. They don't even discuss it according to Cottingham.

[Brewtown Andy]

We are tied for last for the number of sports? With one of the highest budgets of non-football schools (the very highest?) in the country?

I wonder if it would be worth it to start up a men's and women's lacrosse program.

[TJ]

That is correct.

"Division I Criteria

Division I member institutions have to sponsor at least seven sports for men and seven for women (or six for men and eight for women) with two team sports for each gender. "  14 total

1) Men's Basketball
2) Women's Basketball
3) Men's golf
4) Men's Soccer
5) Women's Soccer
6) Women's Volleyball
7) Men's Cross Country
8) Women's Cross Country
9) Men's Outdoor Track
10) Women's Outdoor Track
11) Men's Indoor Track
12) Women's Indoor Track
13) Men's Tennis
14) Women's Tennis

That's all we have.

We're lucky they count running as 6 sports.

[goodgreatgrand]

I wonder if it would be worth it to start up a men's and women's lacrosse program.

I understand that the only reason LAX is the fastest growing sport in America is because fball, bball and baseball cant get much more popular than they already are. However, I go to LAX games every now and then and seeing aywhere from 3K - 12K for a good college game is the norm. That's not bad for a 'second-tier' sport. John Hopkins, Syracuse and Maryland are all good draws. If there was ever a time to get back to LAX, now is it. UDenver made a good run last year and their program is relatively new. 

Attendance per year at the NCAA LAX tournament:

http://www.laxpower.com/common/NCAA-Attendance.php

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A new soccer/lacrosse stadium down at valley fields would be pretty sweet. I'm not a huge lacrosse fan, but the sport is gaining momentum, and it seems to be something that MU could become good at for a nominal investment (compared to football).  

They would probably have to add womens field hockey or crew to balance the scholarships, so that makes it tougher.

I don't know if lacrosse could really be revenue producing.

What would avg. attendance have to be to cover the cost of scholarships, salaries, travel, etc.? 3K per game?

That's tough when 1/2 of the season is in early spring. Trying to get students/casual fans to go watch games in early April is tough. I know I wouldn't.

BUT, the late spring tailgating could be pretty fun.  

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

How in the world could we, in good conscience, field a lacrosse team and still be sensitive to our mission as a Jesuit institution in regards to Native Americans?

[goodgreatgrand]

Notre Dame (a marginally successful LAX program) thought it was wise to invest in a lax stadium. Cost: $5M The stadium appears to have been built for easy expansion. Current capacity: 3K

http://video.insidelacrosse.com/video/view/9430661/index.php?searchTxt=club

[Litehouse]

Wow, that's a sweet stadium just for lacrosse. I played lacrosse at MU and would love to get a D1 team, but that also doesn't do anything to ensure we stay with the big boys.

IMHO, the only reason to start a football team is to guarantee we don't get left behind if there's ever a split between foootball / non-football schools (in the NCAA or Big East).  That means we need to get to FBS status relatively soon (next 5 years or so), anything less just isn't worth it.

[GGGG]

I guess I don't understand the point of adding anything that isn't going to be revenue producing.  People complain about the tuition, and then want to add more sports that don't bring any real value.  MU is throwing all of its resources into men's basketball....the one program where it feels it can get the exposure it needs on the intercolligiate athletics side.  Why waste those resources on a sport like lax, which will never bring any value to the school?

[MUfan12]

How in the world could we, in good conscience, field a lacrosse team and still be sensitive to our mission as a Jesuit institution in regards to Native Americans?

Awesome.

[goodgreatgrand]

Awesome.

Well, they ARE pretty good at the sport. I believe there were 2 All Americans last year that are native american. Just recruit them....thats a nice gesture, no?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I guess I don't understand the point of adding anything that isn't going to be revenue producing.  People complain about the tuition, and then want to add more sports that don't bring any real value.  MU is throwing all of its resources into men's basketball....the one program where it feels it can get the exposure it needs on the intercolligiate athletics side.  Why waste those resources on a sport like lax, which will never bring any value to the school?

I guess I'm thinking/hoping that LaCrosse would at least break even, but I don't know if that's possible.

An upgraded stadium for soccer and lacrosse would attract a few more fans, but we have some significant weather issues that will really keep the casual fan away. Given that you would need to attract a lot of casual fans to make these sports profitable, maybe it's not really feasible.

I guess I like the idea of football, but the execution costs are very high. What's worse, having a low level football team that nobody cares about (that costs a lot of $), or not having one at all?

As far as conferences splitting up and non-FB schools getting screwed, that will probably happen. BUT... if MU maintains a high level of hoops between now and then, you might see conferences consider adding MU because they wouldn't take away from the FB $ pool, and would add to the basketball $ pool.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

That is correct.

"Division I Criteria

Division I member institutions have to sponsor at least seven sports for men and seven for women (or six for men and eight for women) with two team sports for each gender. "  14 total

1) Men's Basketball
2) Women's Basketball
3) Men's golf
4) Men's Soccer
5) Women's Soccer
6) Women's Volleyball
7) Men's Cross Country
8) Women's Cross Country
9) Men's Outdoor Track
10) Women's Outdoor Track
11) Men's Indoor Track
12) Women's Indoor Track
13) Men's Tennis
14) Women's Tennis

That's all we have.

I realize that basketball funds everything. But it is pretty astonishing that with such a high athletic department budget (yes, I realize the numbers are probably flawed) for a non-football school we have the minimum number of D1 sports. Plus, as someone said, 6 of them consist of running in circles or across big lawns. (I joke about them as a former CC and track athlete.)

It leads me to wonder if, among those non-basketball schools, we also must have one of the highest percents of an overall budget going to the basketball program as part of the overall athletic department budget.

I don't think that an excessive amount of money raised via basketball program donations and revenue should go to table tennis, etc., but the bare minimum number of sports? Really?

[TJ]

I realize that basketball funds everything. But it is pretty astonishing that with such a high athletic department budget (yes, I realize the numbers are probably flawed) for a non-football school we have the minimum number of D1 sports. Plus, as someone said, 6 of them consist of running in circles or across big lawns. (I joke about them as a former CC and track athlete.)

It leads me to wonder if, among those non-basketball schools, we also must have one of the highest percents of an overall budget going to the basketball program as part of the overall athletic department budget.

I don't think that an excessive amount of money raised via basketball program donations and revenue should go to table tennis, etc., but the bare minimum number of sports? Really?

I'm not trying to argue that we shouldn't field more sports, but...

There is no standard way to handle Athletic Department accounting/budgeting.  Those studies that come out are not normalized for this fact.  MU probably charges 100% of it's scholarship costs against the AD budget, where state schools might charge them against the general scholarship fund to show a lower AD budget because they have a government to justify themselves to.  Really, it's a complete unknown what those amounts pay for.  So when they say we have the highest non-football school AD budget, there's no way to know for sure whether we actually spend the most on athletics.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I'm not trying to argue that we shouldn't field more sports, but...

There is no standard way to handle Athletic Department accounting/budgeting.  Those studies that come out are not normalized for this fact.  MU probably charges 100% of it's scholarship costs against the AD budget, where state schools might charge them against the general scholarship fund to show a lower AD budget because they have a government to justify themselves to.  Really, it's a complete unknown what those amounts pay for.  So when they say we have the highest non-football school AD budget, there's no way to know for sure whether we actually spend the most on athletics.

Which is why I said the numbers are probably flawed.

But I doubt they are flawed so much so that our athletic department is so poor, and that the basketball program is in need of such a high percent of AD funds, that we can only have the minimum number of sports.

[Brewtown Andy]

A new soccer/lacrosse stadium down at valley fields would be pretty sweet. I'm not a huge lacrosse fan, but the sport is gaining momentum, and it seems to be something that MU could become good at for a nominal investment (compared to football).  

They would probably have to add womens field hockey or crew to balance the scholarships, so that makes it tougher.

Or women's lacrosse.

[martyconlonontherun]

I don't know how you think lax would bring in revenue when it seems like the soccer teams lose so much and I would argue soccer is way more popular.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't know how you think lax would bring in revenue when it seems like the soccer teams lose so much and I would argue soccer is way more popular.

Every sport at MU loses money sans men's basketball. 

[Blackhat]

To me, it comes down to, in 50 yrs will we need football to be relevant in sports at that time?  If yes, then get on it, take baby steps but make it a long term investment.  If no, then keep going as is. 

What are we passing down to future MU'ers. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

To me, it comes down to, in 50 yrs will we need football to be relevant in sports at that time?  If yes, then get on it, take baby steps but make it a long term investment.  If no, then keep going as is. 

What are we passing down to future MU'ers. 

The reality is that at some point there will be different classes most likely.  What I'm hopeful for is that the "super football" class is for football only but basketball will combine that super class and include all the other high pedigree basketball schools that are out there.

I think the NCAA would do a tremendous disservice to their membership and the American fan to only make high level basketball championship one amongst the top 6 or 8 conferences that have football.  So many story lines go away, so much of the magic that is college basketball would be lost.  Whether it's Bucknell or U. of San Diego cinderella runs, or even a traditional power like Georgetown and Marquette left out, that would do a disservice.

Of course, that's why I pushed so hard for expansion of the NCAA tournament, because if you do, it takes away from that situation almost immediately. 

At any rate, we'll see what happens, but it's clear MU is not adding football at any level at this point.