Who says renewing football at Marquette would cost $100 million?

[MU Avenue]

I keep reading that it would cost about $100 million to bring football back to Marquette.

Who says? What costs could possibly total an astonishing $100 million?

I know someone at Marquette, perhaps the Rev. Robert A. Wild, has put the cost at $100 million, but has anyone ever itemized how that figure was calculated?

I am one who would love to see Marquette seriously consider and investigate the possibility of making a return to NCAA football.

Others universities have done it successfully in recent years. Why not Marquette?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Actually it is $125mm, per Steve Cottingham.  I am sure Fr. Wild had other things on his mind.  Got cash?

http://mobile.coveritlive.com/mobile.php/option=com_mobile/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=6e6dfca5a2/start=2

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually it is $125mm, per Steve Cottingham.  I am sure Fr. Wild had other things on his mind.  Got cash?

http://mobile.coveritlive.com/mobile.php/option=com_mobile/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=6e6dfca5a2/start=2

Not if we wanted to play at a lower division like Dayton, San Diego, Butler, Georgetown, etc, play at.  Not even close.  It all depends on what level you want to play at.

[HoopsMalone]

It might be a nice investment.  It might do more than we think for the school.  Obviously, it would entertain the MUScoop posters who love Marquette and love sports.  But I think it is more than that.

Football would help with recruiting and create an atmosphere for alums to get together, and in turn it creates a good atmosphere where Marquette can solicit donations from them.  

College football also seems to be a prominent topic in offices and networking situations.  Having a football team would help MU professionals indirectly in that way.  

It is also annoying that people do not recognize the name of our school.  Football is probably the best way to improve that.  

[MU Avenue]

Actually it is $125mm, per Steve Cottingham.  I am sure Fr. Wild had other things on his mind.  Got cash?

http://mobile.coveritlive.com/mobile.php/option=com_mobile/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=6e6dfca5a2/start=2

Thank you for the reply and information, Dr. Blackheart.

So Athletic Director Steve Cottingham says the total cost to bring football back to Marquette "is probably over $125 million."

Probably?

This is based on thorough research or on a hunch? A gut instinct?

Has Marquette thoroughly investigated what it would take to make a return to collegiate football? Yes or no?

It would "probably" cost more than $125 million?

Probably?

Let us see the numbers?

Again, other universities have started or brought back football in recent years. How did they manage it?

[77ncaachamps]

Not if we wanted to play at a lower division like Dayton, San Diego, Butler, Georgetown, etc, play at.  Not even close.  It all depends on what level you want to play at.

I think with opponents like Concordia, UW-Parkside, etc., one would have to consider if there's REALLY a difference between CLUB football and lower NCAA Division football.

One thing that WOULD be cool: subsidies from the Big East to help kick start D1 teams in certain Big East cities.
It would be expensive at first, but if they were ever able to create a more formidable D1 football conference, that'd be a GOOD thing.

[Coleman]

Love the idea about subsidies.

As for how they got the $125 million figure, I am sure they aren't just pulling numbers out of their butts. You guys are underestimating all the hidden costs.

Facilities.
Scholarships (waaaay more than basketball).
Coaches/trainers/equipment.
And probably the biggest cost, which no one is thinking about...matching that investment in women's sport(s) to comply with Title IX.

[HoopsMalone]

One thing that WOULD be cool: subsidies from the Big East to help kick start D1 teams in certain Big East cities.
It would be expensive at first, but if they were ever able to create a more formidable D1 football conference, that'd be a GOOD thing.

Subsidies from the BE might be a good investment for the conference, especially if they really want the Chicago area to get the BE network.  If the BE invests and makes itself into a good conference, there is no reason Notre Dame wouldn't consider joining the Big East equally with joining the Big Ten once all of that talk gets going again.  The Big East would be easier to win and put ND consistently into the BCS with automatic bids. 

Milwaukee might want to consider subsidizing some of it since MU football games would give Milwaukee 5 or 6 events in the city which would help local restaurants, bars, and shops.  Without an NFL team in Milwaukee, casual fans may even go to the games.

I think starting a team at a lower level is good idea.  Then, once basic facilities are in place make the jump to the Big East.  Incremental steps are ideal here. 

With MU alums thinking about MU on Saturdays during the fall, those donation checks would have to come at a better clip.  If not for basketball, I would not think about MU nearly as much as I do.  Football would add to that, even if we were bad for a while.

[GGGG]

People are also underestimating another factor.  Who is your audience?  In a town that loves the Packers and has plenty of Badger football support, MU IMO would have a tough time finding an audience.  I disagree with Chicos...I think non-scholarship D1 football is a joke.  It will do nothing for the University.

So you have no stadium...a limited audience...Title IX issues...

No thanks.

[GGGG]

Subsidies from the BE might be a good investment for the conference, especially if they really want the Chicago area to get the BE network.  If the BE invests and makes itself into a good conference, there is no reason Notre Dame wouldn't consider joining the Big East equally with joining the Big Ten once all of that talk gets going again.  The Big East would be easier to win and put ND consistently into the BCS with automatic bids. 

OMG...are you serious?  If the BE wants to be a good football conference, you get good football schools.  Not a bunch of private schools with limited fan support who don't even play FBS level football now.  And as for your Notre Dame comments...that's just nuts.  I can give you millions of reasons why the B10 is a better option.

[Brewtown Andy]

24 starters and 22 backups = 46 male student athletes that need female counterparts because of Title IX. Unless you want to shut down mens soccer, track & golf.

Plus housing and feeding them. Coaching staff. Stadium. Training facility. Training staff. Increased athletics staff for ticketing, marketing, facilities.

And this is before playing 1 game. Getting close yet?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Here is a FB page and article on the cost of starting up a pigskin program at Winthrop...a lot less than $125mm...but does not consider the matching Title IX sport costs.  

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2221881065

Winthrop Explores Donor Support for Football

ROCK HILL, SC--If college football fans in the region want Winthrop University to field a gridiron team, they had best be ready to do more than buy season tickets.

Recent estimates indicate starting an intercollegiate football team at Winthrop would be a multi-million dollar proposition – over $18 million, much of it in facilities costs, just to get to the first kick-off – with over $2.4 million in annual operating and scholarship costs after that.

University President Anthony DiGiorgio said he created a task force last year to come up with those estimates, among other things, so he would have a detailed answer to a question he's been hearing every autumn for some years: "What would it take for us to have football at Winthrop?"

That task force -- part of a larger group doing a 10-year projection of prospects for the overall athletics program -- sees identifying the level of potential donor support as the first question to be answered in determining how feasible it might be for Winthrop to field an Eagles football team, DiGiorgio said Tuesday. To generate that discussion, DiGiorgio authorized Athletics Director Tom Hickman, who chairs the task force, to release to the public details of the cost estimates developed by the task force now, ahead of completion of the final report. That will enable the task force to take stock of the public reaction to the "real dollars and cents" part of the question, see what donor support might step forward, and make that assessment part of the task force report before it is finalized.

"It's the fundamental feasibility question that must be addressed before exploring such a step any further," DiGiorgio said.

"Where would the money come from? Over what period of time? Football these days is an extraordinarily expensive sport for an institution to offer as part of its athletics program. The start-up costs are daunting and the operating costs are formidable. For our type institution, gate receipts would constitute only a part of any realistic financial plan. There are capital costs, personnel costs, and scholarship costs to be considered – and all those come before the first kick-off. Public tax dollars aren't available for this, and Winthrop has other priorities for whatever tax dollars are available anyway.

That leaves donor and fan support as the principal bases of support to be assessed. We are in a fortunate situation at Winthrop now, in that our existing athletics program is on firm enough footing that we can look at this question."

According to preliminary cost figures, a football program on the NCAA Division I level would require an initial expenditure for first-year operational costs totaling almost $1.7 million that would cover salaries for a coaching staff and support personnel, uniforms and playing equipment, and scholarships. The scholarship estimate amounts to $480,000 for 30 full scholarship equivalents which would be for the first year only. The scholarship expense for subsequent years could go to $848,000 based on today's cost.

In addition to the start-up operational, an additional $16.6 million would be needed for facilities. Included in that figure would be $11.5 million to construct a new 8,000-seat stadium that would include a press box, hospitality area and furnishings. An additional $5.1 million would be needed for a 24,000 square foot field house for coaches' offices, locker rooms, a weight training room, athletic training room, furniture and equipment. An additional start-up cost of $160,000 would be needed for the formation of a marching band program.

The estimates were assembled by a group that includes individuals experienced in such start-ups of inter-collegiate programs. Members serving on the task force include:
J.P McKee, Winthrop vice president for finance and business; Roger Weikle, dean of the Winthrop College of Business; J. Terrell May, Winthrop director of special gifts; Jim Johnston, chairman of the Winthrop Department of Biology; Debbie Garrick, executive director for Winthrop alumni affairs; Evelyne Weeks, English instructor and NCAA Faculty Athletics Representative; Jack Frost, assistant athletic director for media relations; Doug Echols, mayor for the City of Rock Hill and commissioner of the South Atlantic Conference; John Black, former Eagle Club president and local businessman; and Mike Drummond, athletic director for South Pointe High School. Alan White, retired athletic director at Elon University, has served as consultant.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Not if we wanted to play at a lower division like Dayton, San Diego, Butler, Georgetown, etc, play at.  Not even close.  It all depends on what level you want to play at.

What, a lawyer like Cottingham exaggerate? Say it ain't so ...

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think with opponents like Concordia, UW-Parkside, etc., one would have to consider if there's REALLY a difference between CLUB football and lower NCAA Division football.

One thing that WOULD be cool: subsidies from the Big East to help kick start D1 teams in certain Big East cities.
It would be expensive at first, but if they were ever able to create a more formidable D1 football conference, that'd be a GOOD thing.

If you've been to one club football game in your life, you would know the difference.  My high school team would destroy our club football team...then again, my high school team is ranked in the top 10 in the state and just crushed national power Long Beach Poly 32-7 on Friday night.

No one from club football anywhere in this country plays in the NFL.  At least there are a few guys over the years that have made it to the NFL at the II and even III level.

[ChicosBailBonds]

People are also underestimating another factor.  Who is your audience?  In a town that loves the Packers and has plenty of Badger football support, MU IMO would have a tough time finding an audience.  I disagree with Chicos...I think non-scholarship D1 football is a joke.  It will do nothing for the University.

So you have no stadium...a limited audience...Title IX issues...

No thanks.

Spoken like a Badger and Packer fan.  


Not in a million years am I saying it would replace the football fix that the folks in Wisconsin have over those two professional teams ( ), all I'm saying is it would be great to have a team.  Would love to have some pigskin on campus that wasn't of the Club variety.  Having attended a few Dayton games in my life, it was quite fun, something for the alums to do along with the students on a Saturday afternoon in the Fall. 

[GGGG]

Spoken like a Badger and Packer fan.  

Not in a million years am I saying it would replace the football fix that the folks in Wisconsin have over those two professional teams ( ), all I'm saying is it would be great to have a team.  Would love to have some pigskin on campus that wasn't of the Club variety.  Having attended a few Dayton games in my life, it was quite fun, something for the alums to do along with the students on a Saturday afternoon in the Fall. 

See and my son goes to Butler...and no one goes to the football games there.  And they are actually a fairly decent non-scholarship program.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wis-Whitewater averages about 4,000 per game.  They are one of the premier DIII football programs in the country.  It can happen and in the state of Wisconsin if they wanted to do it.

Eau Claire is less than 3,000 per game.

Powers like Mount Union, less than 4,000.


For a conference, the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Conference averages barely 2,500 a game.

I'm more in the camp that it would be very cool to have a football team that doesn't have to be a DI FBS program.  Averaging 2K to 4K would be great and on par with the other programs in the country at that level.  Nothing wrong with that.  And it could be done for nowhere near the fairy tale amounts being thrown around on this board.


Or play DI FCS like Butler and Dayton.  Butler averages about 2,500.  Dayton about 4,000 but I've been at games that were close to 10,000 over the years.  Hell, even tiny little Alcorn State who puts guys in the NFL at a pretty decent clip only averages about 5,400 a game.


https://admin.xosn.com/pdf8/673802.pdf?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&KEY=ESZIGVSSFOSGQWY.20100223160142&DB_ACCOUNT_TYPE=AGENT&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9700

[bma725]

Has Marquette thoroughly investigated what it would take to make a return to collegiate football? Yes or no?

Yes, and the numbers they looked at when investigating how to do it the right way are way more than the $125 million that Cottingham was quoted talking about.

If the goal is to build a competitive program in FBS football you can't do it half assed.  You can't just jump in try to get to the FBS level right away, you've got to build a FCS program for a few years, then go up to the independent level and then to a BCS conference.  That means you've got to have a ton of money up front just to even entertain the notion because you're probably going to have to fund 10 years of football on your own.

FCS teams are allowed 65 scholarships per year.  With MU's tuition and room and board, that's $2.6 million.  But you can't build a program that is going to get a BCS conference invite in a year, it just won't happen.  You need a few years to build the infrastructure, build the facilities etc before the Big East will even take a look at you.  In all honesty, it would probably be about 5 years. So assuming no rise in costs, you're looking at $13 million.  But then you've got to double it to be Title IX compliant, so we're talking about more like $26 million....and that's just to get a FCS program that would get a sniff from a BCS conference.  In all likelihood, you need to have money to cover the scholarships for the first few years of FBS football as well.  The big boys get 85 scholarships, so that's $3.4 million for just one year.  But again, you can't just have the money for one year, you've got to have it for 4 or 5, because you're spending your first two years as a transitional independent due to NCAA requirements.  So you'll need more like $17 million, which again has to be doubled because of Title IX to get $34 million.  

So you're looking at needing something like $60 million just in scholarship costs up front and that's assuming costs stay the same.  That's half of Cottingham's number....and you still haven't built a stadium, you haven't hired coaches, you haven't built practice facilities and a weight room, you haven't purchased the equipment and training supplies needed....and don't forget you have to do all of that stuff for the women's teams your adding as well because MU doesn't have any of the facilities for them either.  And you've got to find a place to house another 160 students, because that space doesn't really exist.

So $125 million is really just a starting point.  To get it built, you've got to go much higher than that.

Again, other universities have started or brought back football in recent years. How did they manage it?

They're public school with much lower costs than MU.  Look at the private schools still playing FBS football and compare their endowments with what MU has.  There's a reason most private schools got out of the football business long ago.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes, and the numbers they looked at when investigating how to do it the right way are way more than the $125 million that Cottingham was quoted talking about.

If the goal is to build a competitive program in FBS football you can't do it half assed.  You can't just jump in try to get to the FBS level right away, you've got to build a FCS program for a few years, then go up to the independent level and then to a BCS conference.  That means you've got to have a ton of money up front just to even entertain the notion because you're probably going to have to fund 10 years of football on your own.

FCS teams are allowed 65 scholarships per year.  With MU's tuition and room and board, that's $2.6 million.  But you can't build a program that is going to get a BCS conference invite in a year, it just won't happen.  You need a few years to build the infrastructure, build the facilities etc before the Big East will even take a look at you.  In all honesty, it would probably be about 5 years. So assuming no rise in costs, you're looking at $13 million.  But then you've got to double it to be Title IX compliant, so we're talking about more like $26 million....and that's just to get a FCS program that would get a sniff from a BCS conference.  In all likelihood, you need to have money to cover the scholarships for the first few years of FBS football as well.  The big boys get 85 scholarships, so that's $3.4 million for just one year.  But again, you can't just have the money for one year, you've got to have it for 4 or 5, because you're spending your first two years as a transitional independent due to NCAA requirements.  So you'll need more like $17 million, which again has to be doubled because of Title IX to get $34 million.  

So you're looking at needing something like $60 million just in scholarship costs up front and that's assuming costs stay the same.  That's half of Cottingham's number....and you still haven't built a stadium, you haven't hired coaches, you haven't built practice facilities and a weight room, you haven't purchased the equipment and training supplies needed....and don't forget you have to do all of that stuff for the women's teams your adding as well because MU doesn't have any of the facilities for them either.  And you've got to find a place to house another 160 students, because that space doesn't really exist.

So $125 million is really just a starting point.  To get it built, you've got to go much higher than that.

They're public school with much lower costs than MU.  Look at the private schools still playing FBS football and compare their endowments with what MU has.  There's a reason most private schools got out of the football business long ago.

How much money would be saved by simply cutting a few men's sports as opposed to adding more women's scholarships?

I really don't think that football at MU is realistic, but cutting men's sports would comply with Title IX as well...which is the main reason why Title IX is BS.

[Marqevans]

I think with opponents like Concordia, UW-Parkside, etc., one would have to consider if there's REALLY a difference between CLUB football and lower NCAA Division football.

One thing that WOULD be cool: subsidies from the Big East to help kick start D1 teams in certain Big East cities.
It would be expensive at first, but if they were ever able to create a more formidable D1 football conference, that'd be a GOOD thing.

Those of us that remember Marquette's Club football team from the 70's will remember that Sports Illustrated described one of our games as the "world's largest outdoor cocktail party"  The kick-off parade down Wisconsin Ave was quite a sight!

[bma725]

How much money would be saved by simply cutting a few men's sports as opposed to adding more women's scholarships?

I really don't think that football at MU is realistic, but cutting men's sports would comply with Title IX as well...which is the main reason why Title IX is BS.

Not much.

Men's Soccer is 9.9 scholarships.
Men's Tennis is 4.5 scholarship.
Men's Golf is 4.5 scholarships.
Men's Track/Cross Country is 12.6 scholarships between the two.

So in total you'd be looking at 32.5 scholarships, so you'd still have to come up with 50 more for the women, which mean's adding some sports.  And that's if you cut all men's sports besides basketball, which I'm pretty sure the NCAA doesn't let you do.

[bma725]

Wis-Whitewater averages about 4,000 per game.  They are one of the premier DIII football programs in the country.  It can happen and in the state of Wisconsin if they wanted to do it.

Eau Claire is less than 3,000 per game.

Powers like Mount Union, less than 4,000.

For a conference, the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Conference averages barely 2,500 a game.

I'm more in the camp that it would be very cool to have a football team that doesn't have to be a DI FBS program.  Averaging 2K to 4K would be great and on par with the other programs in the country at that level.  Nothing wrong with that.  And it could be done for nowhere near the fairy tale amounts being thrown around on this board.

You realize we can't do that, right?  Since 1992, NCAA rules prohibit schools that are Division I in other sports from competing in Division III in football.  The lowest level we could go would be non-scholarship FCS football.

[Steve Buscemi]

Having attended a few Dayton games in my life, it was quite fun, something for the alums to do along with the students on a Saturday afternoon in the Fall. 

I'm from Dayton and go to a lot of those games...  but students don't.

[mviale]

Wis-Whitewater averages about 4,000 per game.  They are one of the premier DIII football programs in the country.  It can happen and in the state of Wisconsin if they wanted to do it.

Eau Claire is less than 3,000 per game.

Powers like Mount Union, less than 4,000.


For a conference, the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Conference averages barely 2,500 a game.

I'm more in the camp that it would be very cool to have a football team that doesn't have to be a DI FBS program.  Averaging 2K to 4K would be great and on par with the other programs in the country at that level.  Nothing wrong with that.  And it could be done for nowhere near the fairy tale amounts being thrown around on this board.


Or play DI FCS like Butler and Dayton.  Butler averages about 2,500.  Dayton about 4,000 but I've been at games that were close to 10,000 over the years.  Hell, even tiny little Alcorn State who puts guys in the NFL at a pretty decent clip only averages about 5,400 a game.


https://admin.xosn.com/pdf8/673802.pdf?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&KEY=ESZIGVSSFOSGQWY.20100223160142&DB_ACCOUNT_TYPE=AGENT&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9700

We should look at how a similar school such as Villanova brings back football.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How much money would be saved by simply cutting a few men's sports as opposed to adding more women's scholarships?

I really don't think that football at MU is realistic, but cutting men's sports would comply with Title IX as well...which is the main reason why Title IX is BS.

Not an option.  Marquette has the minimum number of sports to be a DI school.  In fact, only 2 other schools out of 347 DI schools have as few as we do.  Everyone else has more than us.  Nothing to cut.