Deepest MU team in......well you tell me

[mikem91288]

After reading all the recaps of the Pro-Am, I can't wait to watch it next Friday and Saturday. There's quite a few possibilities for a potential starting lineup, and as a current MU student I was curious when was the last time a team this deep put on the MU Blue and Gold? This is a far cry from teams with dead weight like Trevor Mbakwe's and Scottie C. just a few years ago. Its unbelievable how much talent Buzz is bringing in this year. I am interested to hear your thoughts.

[MarquetteNation]

I didn't think of mbakwe as dead weight - just never panned out. But I get ur point and it'll be interesting to hear responses. 

[Markusquette]

Mbakwe and Christopherson would have both been impact players if they had stayed at MU imo.  Maybe on paper it hasn't been this deep since the final four run, but I think we like to overvalue our players a lot of the time.  Not saying the incomers won't/can't be impact players, but we had the same expectations of guys like Williams and Maymon going into last season and it didn't turn out as expected.

[MedicineHatSpanker]

Coach Tom Crean was actually quite effective at jettisoning dead weight from the squad. Unfortunately, he almost always replaced the Creaned with comparable talent.

But to answer the original question, yes, Buzz Williams has added incredible depth to the team. In many ways we are even deeper than when Al ran the shop. How far we have come from that April Fool's Day Surprise.

[ChicosBailBonds]

On paper, very deep.  Now we have to see who plays and how deep the rotation goes.  But yes, on paper and at practices, this team will be deep. 

[mikem91288]

Mbakwe and Christopherson would have both been impact players if they had stayed at MU imo.  Maybe on paper it hasn't been this deep since the final four run, but I think we like to overvalue our players a lot of the time.  Not saying the incomers won't/can't be impact players, but we had the same expectations of guys like Williams and Maymon going into last season and it didn't turn out as expected.

Too early to say ewill didn't turn out as expected. Sounds like he was tearing it up this weekend, we'll be hearing more from him

[NersEllenson]

In my 25 years of being a hard core Marquette fan, this team has more talent on it than any I can remember from a 1-12 roster perspective.  The question will be:  Will spots 1-7 prove to be more talented than the 2003 Final Four team, and the 1994 Sweet 16 team?  D-Wade was such a transcendant talent, its hard to know just how good everyone around him was..but we have to give the 2003 team its due.  Should be ALOT of fun these next 2-4 years to see where this thing goes.  My guess - At least 1 Final Four in the next 4 years.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In my 25 years of being a hard core Marquette fan, this team has more talent on it than any I can remember from a 1-12 roster perspective.  The question will be:  Will spots 1-7 prove to be more talented than the 2003 Final Four team, and the 1994 Sweet 16 team?  D-Wade was such a transcendant talent, its hard to know just how good everyone around him was..but we have to give the 2003 team its due.  Should be ALOT of fun these next 2-4 years to see where this thing goes.  My guess - At least 1 Final Four in the next 4 years.

I hope you are right, but getting to a Final Four is awfully tough.  Need to get a top 3 seed, first.  That's almost always a must.  That means finishing in the top 2 in the Big East.

I'm not certain we have a Final Four caliber point guard to make it happen, but we will see.  Perhaps in that four years you mention, we will be able to accumulate that extra talent.

[Warrior97]

...
That means finishing in the top 2 in the Big East.
...

I agree that a Final Four run is a tall order, but how do you figure that a top 2 place in the Big East is necessary to get a 3 seed or higher.  I think winning the big east or placing second is feasible, but this in no way is required to get a 3 seed.  It was only 2 years ago that the Big East had three #1 seeds.

[tower912]

The more accurate question is.....how much of this talent is going to play defense well enough that Buzz feels comfortable using it?    How many are going to understand their role in his offense?    That will determine how many Buzz plays and for how many minutes.     But manomanoman, I can see this team wearing some other teams down.

[Skatastrophy]

Too early to say ewill didn't turn out as expected. Sounds like he was tearing it up this weekend, we'll be hearing more from him

EWill was not tearing it up this weekend.  He was lazy getting up and down the floor.  He continued to have a loose handle on the ball which resulted in him dropping the ball any time anyone bumped or slapped at him down low.  He had a great block and a nice put-back jam, but I would say he was far from tearing it up.

[chapman]

On paper, very deep.  Now we have to see who plays and how deep the rotation goes.  But yes, on paper and at practices, this team will be deep. 

The more accurate question is.....how much of this talent is going to play defense well enough that Buzz feels comfortable using it?    How many are going to understand their role in his offense?    That will determine how many Buzz plays and for how many minutes.     But manomanoman, I can see this team wearing some other teams down.

Both strong points.  It makes the most sense at the moment to believe the glass is half full.  To play devil's advocate, think if Garner is at Burke's freshman level: not ready to contribute yet.  Perhaps EWill just isn't there yet either.  Consider the possibility that there isn't close to 40 minutes of strong point guard play among all the guards.  Then pick two random players to get hurt like seems to happen every year.  Not so deep anymore.  I think we're in a better position than in year's past, but we didn't look so bad last year either...with the same pre-season perfect scenario with a healthy Cadougan, Maymon on the roster, and expecting EWill to get much more time than he was able to get it looked somewhat deep instead of having no depth.

[MerrittsMustache]

I hope you are right, but getting to a Final Four is awfully tough.  Need to get a top 3 seed, first.  That's almost always a must.  That means finishing in the top 2 in the Big East.

I'm not certain we have a Final Four caliber point guard to make it happen, but we will see.  Perhaps in that four years you mention, we will be able to accumulate that extra talent.

Bwaa bwaaaaa!

Let's keep the optimism to a minimum everyone. Chicos is already starting to get carpal tunnel from having to make so many "glass half-empty" posts.

[MerrittsMustache]

EWill was not tearing it up this weekend.  He was lazy getting up and down the floor.  He continued to have a loose handle on the ball which resulted in him dropping the ball any time anyone bumped or slapped at him down low.  He had a great block and a nice put-back jam, but I would say he was far from tearing it up.

Reading posts from amateur scouts is always entertaining because they're so contradictory. Some say Williams tore it up, others say he was lazy. Some think Junior looks explosive, others think he's a step too slow. Some think Jones will be an NBA star, others think he won't contribute at all. Fortunately, Buzz is making the calls instead of using a fan voting system.

[lurch91]

It's an extremely young team, so there are quite a few unknowns.  But, I think this might be the deepest team since the KO years, probably deepest since the Sweet Sixteen team.

[Henry Sugar]

The more accurate question is.....how much of this talent is going to play defense well enough that Buzz feels comfortable using it?    How many are going to understand their role in his offense?    That will determine how many Buzz plays and for how many minutes.     But manomanoman, I can see this team wearing some other teams down.

Don't forget about "how much of this talent is going to protect the ball the way Buzz expects?"

My assumption is that the team that plays on the floor this year will be a much smaller rotation than we think, just like it was the last two years.  It would be delightful to be wrong.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

but I think we like to overvalue our players a lot of the time.

Very true.  Some of these guys just aren't going to pan out as anticipated.  That's why the depth is nice.

[Skatastrophy]

Reading posts from amateur scouts is always entertaining because they're so contradictory. Some say Williams tore it up, others say he was lazy. Some think Junior looks explosive, others think he's a step too slow. Some think Jones will be an NBA star, others think he won't contribute at all. Fortunately, Buzz is making the calls instead of using a fan voting system.

This.

Plus the fact that there were two games going on at a time during the Pro-Am.  Trying to cycle between the two gyms may have meant that I missed all of the good stuff and only saw the bad, or vice-versa.

[GGGG]

That's exactly right.

We are hearing reports about offensive explosions during a summer league that clearly doesn't value defense.  I have no doubt that some of these players are going to have some growing pains once practices begin and defense becomes that much more important.  That is why I think you are basically going to have an 8 man rotation.

Butler
Crowder
Otule
DJO
Junior
Buycks
Blue
Fulce

Williams, Jones and Smith may get more time as the season wears on.  Gardner may have trouble seeing the floor much this year.

[tower912]

Don't forget about "how much of this talent is going to protect the ball the way Buzz expects?"

My assumption is that the team that plays on the floor this year will be a much smaller rotation than we think, just like it was the last two years.  It would be delightful to be wrong.

We agree about the importance to Buzz of protecting the ball, I just implied it and you made it explicit.

[Henry Sugar]

That's exactly right.

We are hearing reports about offensive explosions during a summer league that clearly doesn't value defense.  I have no doubt that some of these players are going to have some growing pains once practices begin and defense becomes that much more important.  That is why I think you are basically going to have an 8 man rotation.

Butler
Crowder
Otule
DJO
Junior
Buycks
Blue
Fulce

Williams, Jones and Smith may get more time as the season wears on.  Gardner may have trouble seeing the floor much this year.

I honestly think even Blue might have a hard time seeing the floor early on, because his performance at FIBA was inefficient and filled with turnovers.

[HoopsMalone]

I am very glad that we have a deep team in terms of Buzz actually having a bench to use. 

We don't have interior defensive depth to put this team up ahead of some of Al's teams in my opinion or maybe the 1994 or 2003 team.  The shot blocking and rebounding will still be a question.  The only difference is that we might actually have players with a PF or C body out there consistently.   That is such odd territory for MU.

Lots to be excited about here.  Lets hope everyone meets his expectations and hopefully exceeds.

[bilsu]

I have been going to MU games since 1962. I witness the entire McGuire era. A lot of his teams had very good starters, but did not go very deep. However, his 1976 team was very deep. I would say this team on the offensive side of the ball is as deep as any team, with the possible exception of the 1976 team. Offense is what the average fan notices, but defense and rebounding are what makes a good team. How good this team will be defensively is a big question. How well the team will share the ball is also a big question. Last year's team was good because they passed the ball around for the open 3pt shot. This year we have a lot of guards who want to take it to the hoop, which could lead to a lot of one on one playing and a lot of losses. Talent is important, but more important is how the team fits together and plays together.

[NersEllenson]

I have been going to MU games since 1962. I witness the entire McGuire era. A lot of his teams had very good starters, but did not go very deep. However, his 1976 team was very deep. I would say this team on the offensive side of the ball is as deep as any team, with the possible exception of the 1976 team. Offense is what the average fan notices, but defense and rebounding are what makes a good team. How good this team will be defensively is a big question. How well the team will share the ball is also a big question. Last year's team was good because they passed the ball around for the open 3pt shot. This year we have a lot of guards who want to take it to the hoop, which could lead to a lot of one on one playing and a lot of losses. Talent is important, but more important is how the team fits together and plays together.

Good points (tho I can't remember back to the 1976 team), agree with the rest of your post.  Having said that, I do trust that Buzz will take the upgraded talent we've got, coach it up, and get the most out of it.  Whether that means the freshman talent see much court time this season, remains to be seen..and probably based on their ability to defend, protect the ball, and score (in that order).  The great news is that these freshman have higher ceilings than a lot of the players of the last 20-25 years..

[willie warrior]

We will be deep--hope Buzz can manage the minutes to keep people happy and productive.

I do not ubderstand the concerns on Cadougan. He does not need to score. Butler and DJO will supply that, with help from Crowder. Caddy only needs to provide 5 to 8 points a game. What will be important will be his dribble drive to the basket with kick out to DJO, and dish to underneath people (Otule, Gardner, Crowder, Butler, etc.)