Talk about a tale of two preseasons

[Windyplayer]

Remember when we had very little expectations going into the season last year. The trio was gone, Hayward was in an unfamiliar role, Cadougan and Otule had season-ending injuries, Butler was a question mark, etc. Well, somehow the team found a way back into the tournament. This year, the preseason expectations are much higher and for good reason. I don't need to rehash the lineup and what each player has to offer, the board has done an adequate job of that over the offseason. I'm excited for a successful season that seems sure to culminate in a tourney appearance that goes beyond the first round, but there's a nagging voice in the back of my head saying If last year's unexpected success could happen the reverse could as well.

Does anyone else hear these irrational voices?

[NavinRJohnson]

I have felt since last season that MU has the potential to be a Top 15 caliber team this year, and that hasn't changed for me. But, your right, an injury here, lack of development there could certainly lead to some disappointment. Many question marks, but there are some very good potential answers to those questions.

[MUBurrow]

The biggest nagging voice in the back of my head since last season has been that overachieving might have also overinflated our expectations a bit.  We have a fairly inexperienced team and lack that reliable big time scorer to lean on.  I'm not saying guys like DJO or Jimmy can't or won't develop into that role, but I would actually be pretty happy with a record and resume that looks a lot like last year's.  There's just too much flux and uncertainty for me to prognosticate a huge jump forward for next year.

[avid1010]

The biggest voice in my head is the voice saying that I could have actually underestimated the importance of Lazar, and obviously I was already giving him a ton of credit.  Watching him get drafted in the first round makes you realize how much better he made those around him, and how much other teams spent focusing on him.  Butler, DJO and the rest are going to be in a much different position next year when considering how teams prepare and play them/MU.

[Blackhat]

Need Jimmy and Joe and someone else to step up and take leadership role.   Keep the intensity high at practice, etc.

Lots of youth=lots of ups and downs next year...again.  If Buzz can get a similar jump in productivity like Acker and Cubillan saw in others this year, it should end well for us (NCAA tourney).

All signs point to 2011 as the year MU makes their move as a program under Buzz.

[tower912]

The nature of college basketball means that every season is a new adventure and every preseason is a new batch of angst.    Injuries/bad chemistry/lack of development could hurt us, but it could hurt every team.    Stay with what we know.   JB and DJO are huge building blocks.    Blue just performed at a high level in tough competition, so assuming that he figures out Buzz' system, he should contribute.    At worst, Fulce and Buycks are glue guys.    And Buzz can coach.   I don't know how we will do this year.    Someone is going to get hurt and someone isn't going to be everything we dreamed.    But there are an awful lot of good pieces.   

[duanewade]

As we saw with Jimmy and DJO in the 2nd half of the Washington game, neither one is loaded with the clutch/killer instinct gene.  However Vander Blue does have this talent and mentality and I watch for him to be our go-to player toward the 2nd half of the season and fill the void that Lazar has left in this regard.  The other player who might have this big game performance gene is Jae Crowder who had big games in the JC playoff run where he won a national championship. 

Bottom line we'll be ok and hopefully with two money players and better overall talent we won't be blowing any more 18 point 2nd half leads like we did last year or fumble away close games we had won like we did two years ago.     

[avid1010]

As we saw with Jimmy and DJO in the 2nd half of the Washington game, neither one is loaded with the clutch/killer instinct gene.  However Vander Blue does have this talent and mentality and I watch for him to be our go-to player toward the 2nd half of the season and fill the void that Lazar has left in this regard. 

Couldn't disagree more.  Jimmy came up real big at the end of a few games, while Vander is yet to score a single point in D1 basketball.

[duanewade]

Don't worry it won't be long before Vander scores a bunch of baskets in a college game which will eliminate your flawed argument that since a player has never played before he can't be viewed to make a big impact pre-season.  John Wall, Carmello Anthony, Greg Oden in their freshman and only year of college.  

Trust me Vander will be every bit as good as Jimmy and DJO this year.  

[avid1010]

Don't worry it won't be long before Vander scores a bunch of baskets in a college game which will eliminate your flawed argument that since a player has never played before he can't be viewed to make a big impact pre-season.  John Wall, Carmello Anthony, Greg Oden in their freshman and only year of college.  

Trust me Vander will be every bit as good as Jimmy and DJO this year.  

I didn't say freshmen couldn't do it, and if you're going to float the names of Wall, Anthony and Oden as proof that Vander can do it, then you better be ready to say he's as good as they were.  Did you watch Butler at the end of all his games, or are you just taking the Washington game into account?

[Blackhat]

I'll agree that Butler and DJO on the whole appear to have a laid back attitude to their games but they also weren't called on to take a leadership role.   

We'll see if they are up to the challenge.  For DJO I'll just be happy if he doesn't play like a puss every third game this year. 

[duanewade]

I didn't say freshmen couldn't do it, and if you're going to float the names of Wall, Anthony and Oden as proof that Vander can do it, then you better be ready to say he's as good as they were.  Did you watch Butler at the end of all his games, or are you just taking the Washington game into account?

I love Butler and hope he comes through more often but I don't want to rely solely on DJO and Butler for leadership for big play in big moments and I think Vander will be a better player in big moments than they will....I read Vander went 10 for 10 from the free throw line in the 2nd half of a key game last year that his free throws closed out and kept the other team from coming back....that and seeing him play and talk indicates to me that he will be a money player that will help us win close games at the end.  

[NersEllenson]

Don't worry it won't be long before Vander scores a bunch of baskets in a college game which will eliminate your flawed argument that since a player has never played before he can't be viewed to make a big impact pre-season.  John Wall, Carmello Anthony, Greg Oden in their freshman and only year of college.  

Trust me Vander will be every bit as good as Jimmy and DJO this year.  

My personal feeling is that expectations for Vander are way too high.  I'd be shocked, but very, very pleased if he could have the type of season DJO had last year.  I think DJO takes it to another level this year, and averages 18-20ppg, and is our go to guy.

If Crowder can somehow come in and fill Lazar's role from last year's team I think we are a Sweet 16 team this year.  However, I don't think we'll be as fun to watch this upcoming season as we were last year.  The way last years undersized team competed and played team basketball..was so fun to watch.

[marquette99]

I think we need to assume crowder is a bigger factor than vander this year.  Vander will be a superstar by sophomore year and maybe if we are lucky by tournament next year, but I'm worried you are setting the bar too high.  We can't be down on him if he is averaging single digits halfway through the year,

[mug644]

For DJO I'll just be happy if he doesn't play like a puss every third game this year. 

I'd like to see DJO put together full game efforts. Too often last year, it seemed that he was completely dominant for one half, only to be silent in the other.

And duanewade, how can you turn around and say "My personal feeling is that expectations for Vander are way too high" after all of the things you've posted in this thread? It seems that you are the one setting high expectations for this particular freshman.

[duanewade]

I think we need to assume crowder is a bigger factor than vander this year.  Vander will be a superstar by sophomore year and maybe if we are lucky by tournament next year, but I'm worried you are setting the bar too high.  We can't be down on him if he is averaging single digits halfway through the year,

To me if Vander average 5 to 10 points a game I don't care as I think this team will be balanced and be able to score a lot of different ways with a longer more talented bench and he won't feel a lot of pressure to score early on and can focus early on defense and looking for his shots when they come......however I think Vander will be play big in big games and big moments as the season goes on as he is big on talent and big in big moments.  Last year when we got him there was the highlight reel from his high school championship game and there were so many highlights you would have thought it was from a whole season and not a single game.....that told me the kid has a lot of game and plays his best in big games.  

[avid1010]

Last year when we got him there was the highlight reel from his high school championship game and there were so many highlights you would have thought it was from a whole season and not a single game.....that told me the kid has a lot of game and plays his best in big games.  

The highlight reel from this year's state title wasn't as nice.  To say he'll score 5-10 points a game, yet have the ball in his hands at the end of the year seems odd.

I'll agree that Butler and DJO on the whole appear to have a laid back attitude to their games but they also weren't called on to take a leadership role.   

I don't see anything laid back about a guy Butler's size that does what he does on defense and on the boards.  He's a Warrior.

[duanewade]

I'd like to see DJO put together full game efforts. Too often last year, it seemed that he was completely dominant for one half, only to be silent in the other.

And duanewade, how can you turn around and say "My personal feeling is that expectations for Vander are way too high" after all of the things you've posted in this thread? It seems that you are the one setting high expectations for this particular freshman.

I didn't say expectations for Vander were too high....Ners did.  

[mug644]

I didn't say expectations for Vander were too high....Ners did.  

My mistake. Sorry.

[duanewade]

The highlight reel from this year's state title wasn't as nice.  To say he'll score 5-10 points a game, yet have the ball in his hands at the end of the year seems odd.I don't see anything laid back about a guy Butler's size that does what he does on defense and on the boards.  He's a Warrior.

We agree to disagree then which is fine.....Big Shot Bob Horry, Michael Jordan as freshman against NC vs. Georgetown when he was the third option behind Worthy, Perkins and Black.....I think Vander will be big time toward late in the season....I just hope not too big time as I don't want him going to the NBA after his freshman year but the NBA is definitely in his future by the end of his 2nd or 3rd year.  

[DaCoach]

This season will find Buzz searching for combinations during the first half of the season. Hayward, Acker and Cubillan will have to be replaced. And, as much as we questioned the guard play, they did provide good perimeter balance and very few turnovers. We became a half court team without a solid bench as Buzz reduced the number of possessions per game to accommodate the lack of bench.

This year we have no idea how the team will jell. We have more talent up and down the roster than we have ever had. How much time each player gets will be a huge task for Buzz. I suspect we'll have fewer 24 second possessions as the season progresses. And that will mean more turnovers.

How will the team defense come together with so many new faces? How good will Otule actually perform? How much improvement will we see from DJO and will Butler be a team leader ala Hayward.

Bottom line is that the 2010 year will be a work in progress. Certainly we have high hopes. But this team will be Buzz's toughest year to coach. We have more questions than answers right now. Fortunately we also have more alternatives solve problems. But rookies are inherently inconsistent and Williams has little patience for mistakes. Some players might well get their feeling hurt and sulk, That's where Hayward did his best work. He was the glue that refused to allow anyone to pout and give up. Hopefully the elders will assume that role and we will become an excellent team. We have the pieces. Now it's Buzz's job to fit them together.

[VegasWarrior77]

Chris Otule is the key to stepping up in the BEast!

[MUBurrow]

echoing some of the things said, I just think this team will have a bit of an identity crisis for most of the year.  not only do we lose Lazar, who was the clear leader of the team and the guy who pulled us out of trouble when we hit kinks on the offensive end, but there isnt a clear default strategy to this team anymore.  with our lack of size and underdog mentality last year, the "play like your hair is on fire" strategy allowed the role players to always know exactly what their role was, and it cut down on our inexperience by limiting 1v1 matchups. 
this season, with additions like crowder and more time for otule, combined with the fact that we are still a pretty inexperienced team (a lot of young guys and even our upper classmen are largely juco guys with only one year of major experience) i think Buzz's job gets harder because he can't default to the frantic pace we ran for much of last year.  I'm not trying to dismiss Buzz's coaching job last year, he milked ever ounce out of our lineup.  but this year the job is even harder because he wont be able to rely on that type of philosophy, rather, he will be forced to strategize with less homogenous rotations, altering tempos, and running drastically varied offensive sets depending on the situation.

[Windyplayer]

echoing some of the things said, I just think this team will have a bit of an identity crisis for most of the year.  not only do we lose Lazar, who was the clear leader of the team and the guy who pulled us out of trouble when we hit kinks on the offensive end, but there isnt a clear default strategy to this team anymore.  with our lack of size and underdog mentality last year, the "play like your hair is on fire" strategy allowed the role players to always know exactly what their role was, and it cut down on our inexperience by limiting 1v1 matchups. 
this season, with additions like crowder and more time for otule, combined with the fact that we are still a pretty inexperienced team (a lot of young guys and even our upper classmen are largely juco guys with only one year of major experience) i think Buzz's job gets harder because he can't default to the frantic pace we ran for much of last year.  I'm not trying to dismiss Buzz's coaching job last year, he milked ever ounce out of our lineup.  but this year the job is even harder because he wont be able to rely on that type of philosophy, rather, he will be forced to strategize with less homogenous rotations, altering tempos, and running drastically varied offensive sets depending on the situation.

Why can't you still play hard-nose defense and run the court? I would think the inexperience would feed right into that mentality. You don't need to have a lack of size and underdog mentality to do that. We don't have any 300 pound centers that are going to be slowing down the pace of the game. Otule and the other bigs seem nimble enough with the exception of Gardner. 

[GGGG]

We agree to disagree then which is fine.....Big Shot Bob Horry, Michael Jordan as freshman against NC vs. Georgetown when he was the third option behind Worthy, Perkins and Black.....I think Vander will be big time toward late in the season....I just hope not too big time as I don't want him going to the NBA after his freshman year but the NBA is definitely in his future by the end of his 2nd or 3rd year.  

Your expectations are way too high.  He's a very good player and will log some minutes this year, but he isn't one and done material.  Not even two or three and done.