Since we want to play Time Machine....Damian Saunders...funny responses

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=4512.0


Interesting responses to say the least....I include myself in that

[Pakuni]

Yep.
I was wrong.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So was I

[Canadian Dimes]

that Harrison guy seem pretty sharp!

[ChicosBailBonds]

that Harrison guy seem pretty sharp!

Was he the same guy that was saying we are out of the recession?   

[Marquette84]

Yep.
I was wrong.

Just curious--which time were you wrong?

In 2007 when you said that it made no sense to argue that Saunders was run off to meet a scholarship limit with two more likely candidates in Blackledge and Hazel?

Or in 2010, when you said Saunders was the obvious choice.

Anyway, I suppose we can shift the debate to whether or not I plagiarized your 2007 post in my comments on this debate.

[Pakuni]

Just curious--which time were you wrong?

In 2007 when you said that it made no sense to argue that Saunders was run off to meet a scholarship limit with two more likely candidates in Blackledge and Hazel?

Or in 2010, when you said Saunders was the obvious choice.

Anyway, I suppose we can shift the debate to whether or not I plagiarized your 2007 post in my comments on this debate.

Not that you would ever lie or misstate another's posts, but when did I ever say "Saunders was the obvious choice."

And feel free to plagiarize. It undoubtedly would improve the quality of your posts.

[Marquette84]

Not that you would ever lie or misstate another's posts, but when did I ever say "Saunders was the obvious choice."

Not that you would ever falsely accuse someone of lying or misstating your posts, (hell, you can't even remember your OWN posts on this) but it was just a few days ago that you asked that I "admit the obvious . . . " on Saunders.

Unfortunately,what you had referred to as "the obvious" is something that you claimed "makes no sense" and "doesn't hold water."

It's bizarre, and clearly disingenuous, how some continue to defend the Creaning of Damian Saunders with such nonsense as "they were waiting to see if he qualified."

Damian Saunders was fully qualified to participate at Marquette or any other school. If they were waiting to see if he qualified, then the answer would have kept him at MU.

"They were waiting for his final SAT scores"

Wrong again. The final SAT test that year was June 2. According to collegeboard.com, score are available on average in about 19 days. In other words. Marquette could have had the scores in hand as much as two months before deciding Saudners didn't meet their standards.

"But wait ... Marquette has super special, tougher standards."
Bull----. Marquette under the pprevious coach allowed in a non-qualifier, not to mentionkids who had significant clearinghouse issues. And yet a fully qualified kid was just too risky for Marquette's standards? Give me a break.

Why can't some simply admit the obvious? Damian Saunders was cut loose at the last minute, despite having fully qualified and signing a NLI, because Marquette signed too many players. Apparently this is acceptable. Just dont cut a kid loose two months later to sign another player.

As Saunders' coach at Duquense said:

"He got caught in a numbers game. They (Marquette) signed one too many players. He was the odd-man out."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07323/835119-135.stm

And as Chico's and Brad Forester can attest, Pennsylvania baksteball coaches are never wrong when it comes to these things.

Interesting theory, but it makes no sense.

If Crean was going to run someone off the team to open up a scholarship, wouldn't it be far more likely that he would run off Blackledge.
Trend, God bless him, has shown that he's not likely to contribute very much to this team and, as a senior, has no long-term future with the program. On top of that, he has an established history of classroom issues that would make such a claim (i.e. that he was dismissed for academic reasons) credible.

Or why not Patrick Hazel who - at least to this point - appears to have less upside than Saunders.

But instead he chooses to dump a promising freshman frontcourt player who could contribute not only this season, but for three more?
Sorry, but your theory simply doesn't hold any water.

[Pakuni]

Not that you would ever falsely accuse someone of lying or misstating your posts, (hell, you can't even remember your OWN posts on this) but it was just a few days ago that you asked that I "admit the obvious . . . " on Saunders.

Unfortunately,what you had referred to as "the obvious" is something that you claimed "makes no sense" and "doesn't hold water."

Just when I didn't think you couldn't sink a discussion any lower ....

My two-year-old knows the difference between saying "Damian Saunders was the obvious choice" and it's "obvious" what happened to Damian Saunders.

A Joseph Welch quote comes to mind.

[Marquette84]

Just when I didn't think you couldn't sink a discussion any lower ....

My two-year-old knows the difference between saying "Damian Saunders was the obvious choice" and it's "obvious" what happened to Damian Saunders.

A Joseph Welch quote comes to mind.

Your two year old understands what "splitting hairs" means?

[Marquette84]

Just when I didn't think you couldn't sink a discussion any lower ....

My two-year-old knows the difference between saying "Damian Saunders was the obvious choice" and it's "obvious" what happened to Damian Saunders.

A Joseph Welch quote comes to mind.

Let me try this another way.  I'll ignore your insults and apologize for my imprecise language.

Please.  Allow me to rephrase:

In your post earlier in this thread, when you specifically said "I was wrong", what were you referring to? 

Your 2007 argument that it "made no sense" or "didn't hold water" that Saunders was cut loose at the last minute, despite having fully qualified and signing a NLI, because Marquette signed too many players.

Or your 2010 argument that I should accept "the obvious" which you then defined as "Damian Saunders was cut loose at the last minute, despite having fully qualified and signing a NLI, because Marquette signed too many players"

[Pakuni]

In the English language, "was" is a past tense verb.

[NCMUFan]

Hope I don't sound like patting myself on the back, but I guess I supported Crean in his decision on Saunders as much as Buzz in his decision on DJ Newbill.  That being, we don't know the whole story, so I am giving the coach the benefit of the doubt.  And haters will be haters.  Whatever the stated reason, some people will doubt it.

[Lennys Tap]

In the English language, "was" is a past tense verb.

I applaud you for hanging in there. Do you have any hair left? I've pulled out most of mine trying to reason with him.

[Marquette84]

I applaud you for hanging in there. Do you have any hair left? I've pulled out most of mine trying to reason with him.

You?  Reason?  What a joke!

Remember a couple of weeks ago when you tried to "reason" with me that there wasn't as much talent on the 2010 team as on Crean's worst team?

Since then we've learned the following new pieces of information:
--one player from 2010 named as one of the 15 elite guards invited to the chris paul camp
--another player named by Rivals as one of the top 10 seniors-to-be
--a third player drafted in the first round of the NBA draft--only the 2nd such player in 30 years.

But in your book, what passes for reason is that because *I* said we had a lot of talent, *you* had to debate me and argue we didn't have much.

Pakuni has become an absolute joke. His worst behavior is his tendency to feign outrage and make false allegations of "misstating" or "lying" if I should make the slightest restatement.

A typical debate with Pakuni:

Pakuni: The sun came out this morning:
Me: So in other words, since the sun rose this morning, and there are no clouds in the sky, wouldn't you agree its sunny out today?
Pakuni:  How DARE you lie.  Stop manipulating my words.  I NEVER said the sun rose.  Even my two year old knows the difference between "the sun came out" and "the sun rose."  I can't believe you'd sink this argument any lower.  Have you no shame?

The post above on his shifting views on Saunders is a perfect example--he knew exactly what I was referring to when I summarized his post as  "Saunders was the obvious choice."  But he played his little little game--"When did I ever say that?"  Fine--I played  his game back and linked to his post--to which he replied with insults and personal attacks.  Sorry, but his act is getting old. 

[tower912]

Seriously?   You guys are fighting over the parsing of words involving a thread that is 3 years old?     How long until Midnight Madness?

[Pakuni]

Seriously?   You guys are fighting over the parsing of words involving a thread that is 3 years old?     How long until Midnight Madness?

You're absolutely correct. It's insane, and I feel like an idiot for allowing myself to be sucked into it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Saunders coach at ND Prep (also Lazar's) was Bill Barton...who then became an assistant at Duquesne prior to this season.  It was no coincidence that Saunders was able to latch on a week later with DU in late August.  With Mbwake a clearinghouse risk, DJ potentially opting for the NBA, thus the oversigning and it going late.  Of course, ND Prep itself was questionable back then.  It wasn't fully accredited, Barton was also the principal, AD, English teacher, etc., it is a bball factory specializing in LD student athletes that no one else would take.  If you remember, Zar was a late clear from the NCAA, and Beasley, Caracter also had academic issues clearing (most recently, this was where Lacy landed).  Coincidentally, Barton is now at Marshall coaching Yous.

I am sure this current situation also has many sub-plots--considering MU was talking Prep school just a few days after the LOI was signed...and mysteriously, after a half year since the verbal, no application was submitted.  Prep school can be a great option for certain kids.  There is a ton of talent sitting there as the kids mature academically.  

[Marquette84]

You're absolutely correct. It's insane, and I feel like an idiot for allowing myself to be sucked into it.

Let's go back to my first post on the matter:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20899.msg221085#msg221085

And here's how you responded:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20899.msg221085#msg221085

Claiming you were "sucked into" it is hardly an accurate description of what happened here.  You objected to my post by making an unsubstantiated claim, and have spent quite a bit of time and effort dodging the issue ever since.

You could have avoided this entire discussion if you had simply listed the examples that supported your claim that situations similar to Newbill are occurring and have occurred or a long time.  

Where are all those similar cases?  Where are the examples from Calhoun, Pitino, Krzyszeswki, Self, Barnes, Howland, etc. etc. etc.

I'll respond as I SHOULD have a week ago:
List the examples that support your claim.  

Your response will be instructive. A valid response is a list of players who fit the following criteria:  
a) had signed an LOI  
b) were fully qualified
and
c) had their scholarship offer rescinded