Let's be honest

[MUSF]

I'll confess I must not have paid enough tuition to understand what the F your point is.  Are you saying Fr. Wilde sanctioned Buzz's decision to $crew this kid over?  After all the bad press generated by Fr. Wilde rescinding MU's job offer to Professor O'Brien, do you really think he's shrugging off all the Philadelphia media coverage?

As far as the "holier than thou cr@p," for some posters (and apparently a significant %), pride in our basketball program has always been about more than wins/losses.  Treating high school recruits as commodities rather than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of me.

My point is that Fr. Wild is the president of the university and therefore, his employees are an extension of him and the institution.  You seem to make alot of assumptions on what went down.  Do you know that Fr. Wild was not informed of the decision?  Do you know what expectations he layed out for Buzz?  What if he told Buzz that he had the freedom to run the program and recruiting as he saw fit, as long as no rules/laws were violated?  Would that be failing to live up to his Jesuit values?

What action does Fr. Wild have to take to give you confidence that he is living up to his mission statement?  Does Buzz need to be fired?  Publicly reprimanded?  If you are willing to assume that Buzz is firmly in the wrong and seemingly goes unpunished, then don't you have to assume that Fr. Wild is complicit?  Or would you choose to assume that Fr. Wild handled things appropriately behind closed doors?  You seem to be making selective assumptions.

Furthermore, if treating basketball recruits like commodities RATHER than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of you, then you probably should have walked away from major college athletics a long time ago.  

That being said, this situation bothers me too and my pride in the bball program is not based solely on wins and losses.  I hope Fr. Wild deals with the situation with the appropriate level of firmness, humility, and grace which your intital post lacked, IMO.  I certainly hope he doesn't choose to wield his Jesuit values as a tool to condemn a faithful employee as you seem so willing to do on his behalf.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So.... 8 people on the WVU message board, 4 on the UConn board, one on the Depaul board, and two Badger boards.  What a global outcy!

You do have a reading problem, don't you.  I said I only copied a few as I was on my iPhone.  It would make your argument much stronger if you actually read the post before a flippant response.

I said there were more schools, I never said anything about volume.  And just because 4 people responded doesn't mean 500 didn't read it....it's crazy how that whole message board thing works. I  suppose in your universe if there is one letter to the editor in the newspaper about an article, it means only one person read it.   

There were others, like the Illinois boards, etc but it doesn't matter if 1000 people responded or 2, you're hell bent that it's ok to dump a kid like this so what does it really matter.

[MUSF]

How many people care should have little barring on how we view this situation.

[LAZER]

You do have a reading problem, don't you.  I said I only copied a few as I was on my iPhone.  It would make your argument much stronger if you actually read the post before a flippant response.

I said there were more schools, I never said anything about volume.  And just because 4 people responded doesn't mean 500 didn't read it....it's crazy how that whole message board thing works. I  suppose in your universe if there is one letter to the editor in the newspaper about an article, it means only one person read it.   

There were others, like the Illinois boards, etc but it doesn't matter if 1000 people responded or 2, you're hell bent that it's ok to dump a kid like this so what does it really matter.

On the Illinois Scout board the only one to bring Marquette into the discussion was a Wisc fan posting on their board

[3Mer]

Furthermore, if treating basketball recruits like commodities RATHER than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of you, then you probably should have walked away from major college athletics a long time ago.  

That being said, this situation bothers me to and my pride in the bball program is based solely on wins and losses.  I hope Fr. Wild deals with the situation with the appropriate level of firmness, humility, and grace which your intital post lacked, IMO.  I certainly hope he doesn't choose to wield his Jesuit values as a tool to condemn a faithful employee as you seem so willing to do on his behalf.

And my point is that just because the principles of contract law haven't been adopted by the NCAA (shock!) doesn't justify treating children as pawns.  If it were otherwise, DJ would be collecting on a settlement as lucrative as that which Professor O'Brien signed. 

But legalities aside, I find cynicism such as yours sickening.  If Fr. Wilde sanctioned the manner in which this matter was handled, he learned nothing from the O'Brien incident.  I am not so cynical, and believe that Buzz is getting an earful from Fr. Wilde about treating recruits with respect. 

At the very least, DJ deserved a personal call from Buzz, honesty and an apology. 

[Pakuni]

At the very least, DJ deserved a personal call from Buzz, honesty and an apology. 

You, nor I, have no idea whether he got the second. If he did, there's asbolutely no need for the third.

As for the first, I agree.

[ChicosBailBonds]

On the Illinois Scout board the only one to bring Marquette into the discussion was a Wisc fan posting on their board

'

Correct, followed by UI members comments.

A more robust discussion is on the Premium Orange and Blue board

http://illinois.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=922&fid=1737&style=2

[mu-rara]

I believe so, yes.

From those two lines, you are certainly defending MU, Buzz.  Suggesting the other poster was "disparaging" clearly indicates that you believe he's wrong in doing so.   


Just sayin.

I do lean toward IWB's story, because he is a credible source.  I think it was a mistake on MU's part to accept the NLI, only because it puts egg on Buzz's face.

If more facts become available, I will evaluate them.  If I'm wrong, so be it.

[Hamostradamus]

As far as the "holier than thou cr@p," for some posters (and apparently a significant %), pride in our basketball program has always been about more than wins/losses.  Treating high school recruits as commodities rather than students and potential alumni bothers the $hit out of me.

Can I assume you are going to get rid of your season tickets in protest?

[RJax55]

If Fr. Wilde sanctioned the manner in which this matter was handled, he learned nothing from the O'Brien incident.  I am not so cynical, and believe that Buzz is getting an earful from Fr. Wilde about treating recruits with respect.   

Get real. MU isn't some family run restaurant with 6 employees... Its a major national university, big business. If you think for one moment that Fr. Wild was at all involved with the DJ Newbill situation your incredibly naive.

I mean, there is a reason MU has a whole athletic department and AD, right??

[3Mer]

If this type of recruiting becomes the norm, yeah, I'd get rid of my season tickets -- and I'll bet I won't be the only one. If I want to watch a cutthroat, unprincipled, unscrupulous basketball program, I'll just get NBA tickets.  At least in the NBA, management can't $crew over the athletes without legal ramifications.

And as for naive, if anyone believes that Fr. Wilde or the Board of Directors is turning a blind eye to this situation, particularly after just suffering through the national debacle that was the O'Brien un-hiring, they ought to get a clue.  

[mu-rara]

Who wants to be a Division III program?    We are playing for NCAA Division I championships here.  We have millions of dollars invested.

Recruits have advisors from 8th grade on.  They hope to be in the Association some day.  They know what is at stake.  This is big boy basketball.

Based on the info that we have, MU has made a PR blunder, nothing more. If other info turns up, I'll eat crow and admit that MU screwed up.  

[MUSF]

And my point is that just because the principles of contract law haven't been adopted by the NCAA (shock!) doesn't justify treating children as pawns.  If it were otherwise, DJ would be collecting on a settlement as lucrative as that which Professor O'Brien signed. 

But legalities aside, I find cynicism such as yours sickening.  If Fr. Wilde sanctioned the manner in which this matter was handled, he learned nothing from the O'Brien incident.  I am not so cynical, and believe that Buzz is getting an earful from Fr. Wilde about treating recruits with respect. 

At the very least, DJ deserved a personal call from Buzz, honesty and an apology. 

First, to clarify, I meant to say that I do NOT base my pride in MU bball solely on wins and losses.  I fixed the original post.

Now to your points:

I do not think it is justified to treat "children" or in some cases young men as pawns.  Buzz's intent matters here.  If Buzz thought that he made the situation clear to DJ and DJ agreed to proceed, then Buzz is guilty of poor communication and probably an error in judgement.  You seem to assume that Buzz and the MU staff intentionally deceived DJ, conned him into a bogus agreement, then dumped him with no explanation.  Isn't that a little cynical of you?  

Why do you choose to believe that Fr. Wild, who has recently demonstrated his own communication / judgement issues, is clearly on the "right" side of things but Buzz is clearly in the wrong?  Is it possible that the truth is actually more complicated than your black and white version? Again, do you know that Fr. Wild communicated his expectations clearly and effectively to Buzz in order to prevent situations like this?  If he did, then Buzz failed to live up to expectations and could justifiably be punished or fired.  If he didn't, then he shares some of the responsibility and should take this opportunity to clarify those expectations.  

I don't think my view of this situation is overly cynical.  I think our coach probably wandered a little too far into the vast grey area of recruiting ethics and Fr. Wild should probably start pulling him back a little bit.  I say probably because we honestly don't know if Buzz was intentionally dishonest.  Based on Buzz's performance so far, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up as poor communication and poor judgement.  Those errors need to be corrected but I will not go as far to say that he disgusts me or is "chicken$hit."  Like I said before, hopefully Fr. Wild chooses to handle the situation with a little more dignity and grace than the condemnation he is getting from some.

Also, Buzz should have called him.  Hopefully he reaches out at some point if that is allowed by the NCAA.

[RJax55]

And as for naive, if anyone believes that Fr. Wilde or the Board of Directors is turning a blind eye to this situation, particularly after just suffering through the national debacle that was the O'Brien un-hiring, they ought to get a clue.  

Yeah, I'm sure that the BOD is going to have an emergency conference call next week about a basketball player who never even submitted an application to MU

As PRN stated, the only people who care about this are basketball fans on the message boards. Please, get some perspective on the situation.

[3Mer]

Yeah, I'm sure that the BOD is going to have an emergency conference call next week about a basketball player who never even submitted an application to MU

As PRN stated, the only people who care about this are basketball fans on the message boards. Please, get some perspective on the situation.

Try reading a Philly newspaper.  It's only the nation's sixth largest city.  I'm sure the Board of Directors could care less how MU is portrayed in that media market, smart@ss.

[StillAWarrior]

Well,if you've read of my posts you will know that I have suggested that people wait for the facts before ripping anyone.  No self aggrandizement involved, however, I've got your game right here.                                 

I wasn't specifically directing my post at you (just like I suspect you weren't specifically directing yours at me).  It was just a general comment that two sides are getting totally entrenched and it seems silly.  Sorry if it appeared that I was calling you out (and, in retrospect, I can see why it would appear that way).

[ATWizJr]

I wasn't specifically directing my post at you (just like I suspect you weren't specifically directing yours at me).  It was just a general comment that two sides are getting totally entrenched and it seems silly.  Sorry if it appeared that I was calling you out (and, in retrospect, I can see why it would appear that way).

No problem, Still.  We're all on the same side.

[StillAWarrior]

We're all on the same side.

Bears repeating.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who wants to be a Division III program?    We are playing for NCAA Division I championships here.  We have millions of dollars invested.

Recruits have advisors from 8th grade on.  They hope to be in the Association some day.  They know what is at stake.  This is big boy basketball.

Based on the info that we have, MU has made a PR blunder, nothing more. If other info turns up, I'll eat crow and admit that MU screwed up.  

So are a lot of other programs but they aren't doing this.


In all honesty, can someone come up with a bunch of examples where a kid signed a letter of intent and then was completely kicked to the curb which DID NOT have anything to do with legal or academic issues?

I'd like to see all these examples that people here say "happens all the time in this big time business".  If it does, can we see 25 examples since it happens so often?  I'm not just talking to you, this is for anyone.

Kids get let out of NLI for not passing their test scores or breaking the law....I'd like to see examples where this situation happens where a kid is NCAA qualified (and we've taken PLENTY of NCAA qualified kids in the past) and did not have a legal issue that resulted in this buzz cutting.