IWB on Newbill

[MarkCharles]

Hey Brad--

Thanks for being willing to take our questions. Please ask DJ...

As the spring signing period progressed, did you sense a disconnect growing between yourself and Marquette/ Buzz/Monarch?
Were you aware that Marquette was still recruiting and taking visits for 2010 players, even after the roster appeared to be set with Mbao leaving and Gardner signing?
If you were aware, was there any communication or explanation with MU?
Has your opinion of Buzz Williams changed throughout this ordeal?

I will say that I 100% hope the answers to those questions reveal that Marquette did as little wrong as possible. The more and more I learn and think about this, however, I think that Marquette is at least partially at fault for not treating a recruit very well. I have a feeling the reality is somewhere in the middle of IWB and DJ's explanation's, and I am fine with that.

My theory is that this contingency offer was a reality at some point of the recruitment of DJ. I would guess that DJ's camp thought that time had passed after pretty much every significant recruit in the country signed early in the spring period. DJ may have been worried about a situation like this a couple months ago, but I bet he was resting easier knowing he was so close. Then, Wilson decides to transfer and MU is the likely candidate. Buzz probably thought his chances of getting a player like Wilson were long gone this late in the period, so he jumped at his chance to get him. This might have meant he had to act swiftly and coldly with DJ, but Buzz wanted to improve his team more than protect DJ's feelings. I may not love that, but I can live with it.

I admit this is just speculation, but it seems to somewhat logically explain how Buzz could pull something like this and not become a total villain, as well as why Newbill's camp would be so aggrieved. I think Marquette and Buzz need to find a way to do some damage control without throwing DJ under the bus. In a world where people like the blogger from yahoo sports who wrote that article questioning MU ethics can be considered a credible source, we need to be proactive in this situation.

I look forward to what Brad gives us friday.

[Dawson Rental]

I could be wrong, but I suspect that the UWV and Georgetown "offers" were probably expressions of interest rather than real offers.  Considering that Georgetown got in on Aaron Bowen late, it seems likely to me that DJ was a fallback for them if they didn't get Bowen.  I think that DJ signed with MU because it was his only offer from a BE school.  That would make sense.

Brad, I would like you to point blank ask him, if he actually turned down an LOI with either school.

It's looking like MU somehow is going to get a black eye on this one.  I don't know if Buzz or Monarch is to blame, but signing a guy to a LOI when there is a more than 50% chance that he won't be coming seems like a questionable practice.  It's setting yourself up to look bad.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

I could be wrong, but I suspect that the UWV and Georgetown "offers" were probably expressions of interest rather than real offers. 

I have been following recruiting for over a decade now and every recruit lists all of these offers from high-major DI schools. The majority of these relative off-the-radar recruits appeared to be contingent on other "higher priority" recruits. The vast majority of MU recruits are not top 100, but seem pretty generous with what their options truly were. I would read who they chose MU over and wonder if they actually had a true offer OR said university gave them a contingent offer.....there is a pecking order.....

IWB's account makes a lot of sense to me.  My conjecture....DJ was given a scholarship offer contingent IF MU could not grab someone higher in the pecking order.  DJ decided to take the chance because the other high-major "offers" he had were contingent.  By accepting MU's "offer" he had a decent chance of coming to MU.  He also got his name into national prominence.  How many people even knew about him before he signed???  Every year there are recruits that are relative unknowns until they sign and then their stock BOOMS because of where they go.

I could very well see this situation as Buzz doing DJ a favor.  The scholarship was offered as a contingency.  DJ wanted to sign anyways, fully knowing it might not go through because Buzz had stated priorities that he wanted more.

Buzz might be getting defamed for helping a guy out!  Regardless, never accept a contingent scholarship because this situation will happen again!  Keep the contingent offers the same way as they have always been done......"wait and see young fella".....

[nyg]

Of course you do.
In Chico's world:
Unknown coaches from Philly = rock solid truth tellers.
Solid insider from MU = liar.
Possibility that the truth lies somewhere in between = zero.

Hey Brad, if you're out there, some questions you might want to consider asking DJ:

- Why did you not apply to Marquette?
- Why were you not on campus with most of the other incoming players?
- Are you fully qualified at this moment? If so, when were you qualified?
- Did you ever discuss the possibility of attending prep school with the MU staff? If so, what was the discussed and decided?
- Did Marquette's staff discuss their offer and commitment to you as anything but unconditional?
- When did you last speak to a member of the coaching staff? What was the nature of that discussion?

Brad, the above questions are excellent and pertinent, but here are a few more:

1) What is the deal with the MU summer league?  How could you not know such an event was occurring and not be invited, or even aware of it?

2) What are your school options now, have you received any offers since this incident occurred?

3) Were you willing to attend a prep school for a year with the hope of attending MU after and if so, did you advise the MU staff?

[GGGG]

Look, clearly there is enough evidence to suggest that Newbill's recruitment was different.  He didn't submit his application...he was seemingly unaware of the summer league...and Buzz's prep school comments.  Furthermore, we find out that phillycoach was fired and seemingly not really part of the recruitment.  So these point to the possibility of some sort of contingent offer and that parts of IWB's story are correct.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that Newbill can't be disappointed and feel like he was treated unfairly.  Maybe he felt that he did all he needed to do on the court and off.  Maybe after Yous left, and June rolled around, that he felt that he was in the clear.

I will say this though...this is the third instance in the last year or so where what a recruit was supposedly told differs from what the recruit supposedly heard.  Roseboro...Maymon...Newbill...  Is Buzz at fault for all of these?  Who knows?  But this does suggest that Buzz may have "communication problems" when dealing with some of these guys.

[TJ]

I have been following recruiting for over a decade now and every recruit lists all of these offers from high-major DI schools. The majority of these relative off-the-radar recruits appeared to be contingent on other "higher priority" recruits. The vast majority of MU recruits are not top 100, but seem pretty generous with what their options truly were. I would read who they chose MU over and wonder if they actually had a true offer OR said university gave them a contingent offer.....there is a pecking order.....

IWB's account makes a lot of sense to me.  My conjecture....DJ was given a scholarship offer contingent IF MU could not grab someone higher in the pecking order.  DJ decided to take the chance because the other high-major "offers" he had were contingent.  By accepting MU's "offer" he had a decent chance of coming to MU.  He also got his name into national prominence.  How many people even knew about him before he signed???  Every year there are recruits that are relative unknowns until they sign and then their stock BOOMS because of where they go.

I could very well see this situation as Buzz doing DJ a favor.  The scholarship was offered as a contingency.  DJ wanted to sign anyways, fully knowing it might not go through because Buzz had stated priorities that he wanted more.

Buzz might be getting defamed for helping a guy out!  Regardless, never accept a contingent scholarship because this situation will happen again!  Keep the contingent offers the same way as they have always been done......"wait and see young fella".....

That's all well and good, until the NLI signing.  That's a contract the kid is bound to, and the school should be too.  I don't care if Buzz wants to give kids contingent offers, but don't have them sign then.

Even if you put all sorts of terms out there and they still want to sign... don't let them.  You're the adult with experience in this area; they're a 17-19 year old kid that probably doesn't know the full consequences of their actions.  You should know how raw a deal this is for the kid and not let him get into it.  Maybe this will cause you to lose out on your plan B; that's better than getting a rep as a guy who over-recruits even the incoming recruiting class regularly.

[Brewtown Andy]

that's better than getting a rep as a guy who over-recruits even the incoming recruiting class regularly.

Buzz invites that rep, though.  He openly admits he recruits every single day because you have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow.

[PE8983]

"You have the Marquette side and he has the Newbill side."
You don't have either side, most notably Newbill's.  He hasn't said a word.  Your reading speculation and innuendo.

[NavinRJohnson]

You're the adult with experience in this area; they're a 17-19 year old kid that probably doesn't know the full consequences of their actions.  

Oh Bull. We have heard from two adult coaches if DJ's who claim to know a whole lot about the situation, and were supposedly involved with him throughout this process. He has a mother, and other coaches who assisted him. He may be 18, but the people advising him aren't. Actions come with consequences.

[PE8983]

bradforster-

A few questions for DJ:

1) What returning or new players did you converse with on a regular basis?
2) Did they or the coaching staff tell you about the ProAm?
3) Were you aware that the Buzz had indicated a while ago that one or more of the recruits may be headed to prep school, and did you have any indication that he was referring to you?
4) Buzz has indicated many times that he was still recruiting frontcourt players for the upcoming year, yet the roster was full.  Where did you think that scholarship would be going to?

[GGGG]

Oh Bull. We have heard from two adult coaches if DJ's who claim to know a whole lot about the situation, and were supposedly involved with him throughout this process. He has a mother, and other coaches who assisted him. He may be 18, but the people advising him aren't. Actions come with consequences.

Well, they may be adults, but they are adults with limited experience in the recruiting process.  I just don't see why we signed him to a NLI.  I just hope it wasn't to keep him away from other BE schools while we tried to get someone better.

I am very pleased that we ended up with Wilson.  I am not pleased how we got there though.  If we aren't commited to a kid, don't sign him to an NLI.  This is the second year in a row this has happened before the school year started.  In the first case, we convinced Roseboro to transfer.  In this case he was never admitted so we have an out.

Very unseemly.  I don't know how you can defend it at face value.

[NavinRJohnson]

Very unseemly.  I don't know how you can defend it at face value.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Tk6DPq2_c2M

[GGGG]

LOL...yeah, quoting the Godfather II really helps your position.

[Pakuni]

Well, they may be adults, but they are adults with limited experience in the recruiting process.  I just don't see why we signed him to a NLI.  I just hope it wasn't to keep him away from other BE schools while we tried to get someone better.

I am very pleased that we ended up with Wilson.  I am not pleased how we got there though.  If we aren't commited to a kid, don't sign him to an NLI.  This is the second year in a row this has happened before the school year started.  In the first case, we convinced Roseboro to transfer.  In this case he was never admitted so we have an out.

Very unseemly.  I don't know how you can defend it at face value.

I'm with you that it's a bad way to do things and, whether he was a willing participant or not, it's unfortunate for DJ Newbill.
That said, I'd hesitate to call it unseemly if - if - IWB's account is true, or at least mostly true. As has been mentioned, the practice of stashing away kids at prep schools hardly is unheard of. If DJ knew that was the plan - or at least a possibility - going in, it's hard to argue that what MU did here was immoral or "unseemly."
It's bad practice, IMO, because it leaves the program open to criticism and questions of integrity and it sets a kid up in a situation in which he may or may not fully understand the risks involved. But I'm not sure anything unethical or immoral happened here.

[Litehouse]

Question for Brad...
Who was the other adviser that was involved in DJ's recruitment with MU?  IWB's story indicated someone else was the primary contact and that Coach Laws wasn't as involved in the whole process.

[bilsu]

NLI is only binding after the player gets accepted by admissions. The end around this was not having Newbill submit his papers. I can certainly see why people would think this is dirty pool, even if Newbill agreed with it. The only thing that makes sense to me is if Buzz truly believed Newbill would join MU in 2011. If Newbill goes to prep and has a 2011 offer from MU then I am okay with it. The other thought is if Newbill is not that good, why would you not want him to sign with another Big East school. I think Buzz believes Newbill will be good in the long run, but given the current calibur of guard at MU, Newbill would not help next year or maybe even the next.

[Final Four or Bust]

From what ive heard so far, my view is that the coaches made it clear their plans to the recruit and his family and coaches.  Why not?  Whether they understood is obviously a different story.  However if it is true that the offer was contingent and he wanted to accept it anyway, this summer has certainly been odd.  We've had coaches and updates and videos of this kid repeatedly posted.  Everytime a prep school alternative was mentioned (including by the staff) it was clarified that he was coming in the fall.  Either he wanted to believe that or increase his profile to make sure everyone here was in the kids camp (including me- he sounded like a find).  Heck we knew more about him than everyone else save blue- certainly odd for a recruit we never heard of beforehand.  He was probably a few days away from heading out- including this video of his move to mu.  Doesn't this seem all designed to make it difficult for the staff not to accept him?  Didn't iwb say that even if Wilson didn't come he was slated for prep school?  If true, everything seems designed to get the staff to accept him if they had a scholie.  He was showing up, we were told- and he was close to doing so.  I guess the wrench with Wilson and now his confidants feel aggrieved and making it known.  And many here are agreeing with them.  Something seems to calculated to me.  It's sad for the kid and I feel for him.  I guess I see two possible missteps for us (1). Accepting the nli- gotta believe buzz won't be pushed to accept one in the future and (2) the time frame on the Wilson move.  Not sure if that was possible earlier- but should have been communicated earlier.  However if he was slated for prep school anyway- that shouldn't make a difference, but it would be very hard to place him in prep school with an open scholy- the outcry would have been deafening.  Though was that outcry calculated?  Who knows- just thoughts and tryin to think through this as more than one part of the story seems off.  

[NavinRJohnson]

What are these videos people are referring to?

[Final Four or Bust]

What are these videos people are referring to?

Not sure if they were brad's, but there were videos of him working out that impressed lots, and aren't we supposed to get a video tomorrow.

Another aside, does anyone rremember handlers being mentioned with this kid.   I seem too.   Maybe there is more going on In the recruiting process here- just a thought. 

[hairy worthen]

From what ive heard so far, my view is that the coaches made it clear their plans to the recruit and his family and coaches.  Why not?  Whether they understood is obviously a different story.  However if it is true that the offer was contingent and he wanted to accept it anyway, this summer has certainly been odd.  We've had coaches and updates and videos of this kid repeatedly posted.  Everytime a prep school alternative was mentioned (including by the staff) it was clarified that he was coming in the fall.  Either he wanted to believe that or increase his profile to make sure everyone here was in the kids camp (including me- he sounded like a find).  Heck we knew more about him than everyone else save blue- certainly odd for a recruit we never heard of beforehand.  He was probably a few days away from heading out- including this video of his move to mu.  Doesn't this seem all designed to make it difficult for the staff not to accept him?  Didn't iwb say that even if Wilson didn't come he was slated for prep school?  If true, everything seems designed to get the staff to accept him if they had a scholie.  He was showing up, we were told- and he was close to doing so.  I guess the wrench with Wilson and now his confidants feel aggrieved and making it known.  And many here are agreeing with them.  Something seems to calculated to me.  It's sad for the kid and I feel for him.  I guess I see two possible missteps for us (1). Accepting the nli- gotta believe buzz won't be pushed to accept one in the future and (2) the time frame on the Wilson move.  Not sure if that was possible earlier- but should have been communicated earlier.  However if he was slated for prep school anyway- that shouldn't make a difference, but it would be very hard to place him in prep school with an open scholy- the outcry would have been deafening.  Though was that outcry calculated?  Who knows- just thoughts and tryin to think through this as more than one part of the story seems off.  

This all sounds very feasible. I also thought this kid was getting more than the typical recruits publicity and in hind sight it does seem like it may have been calculated. It worked to some degree, who didn't think this kid had a great work ethic and was pulling for him to succeed. The whole Philly coach thing was a little off also. How many coaches are open particpents in message boards. Lots of questionable comments in his posts as well.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Tk6DPq2_c2M

You're right. The recent movements in the conferences are another great example that D1 athletics are a business.

BUT... BUT...

Where does it stop? If Erik Williams doesn't earn minutes this year, should Buzz tell him to leave? Should MU cut the last 3 guys on the bench every year and try to replace them with top 100 guys?

Where is the line for "business" vs "amateur" athletics?

I honestly don't know... but I'm afraid it can be a slippery slope, so I'm less than thrilled with rationale like "it's business".

[NavinRJohnson]

Where does it stop? If Erik Williams doesn't earn minutes this year, should Buzz tell him to leave? Should MU cut the last 3 guys on the bench every year and try to replace them with top 100 guys?

Maybe. If Erik Williams can't get on the floor, maybe he would be better off elsewhere. If MU can recruit 3 top 100 guys, then, yes, maybe the last three guys would also be a better fit at a place like, oh i don't know...Wisconsin or UWM. That is obviously an extreme and unrealistic example, but you bring in the best talent you can, and guys that aren't up to the standard(s) MU establishes for iteself, are probably better served playing elsewhere. I guess I don't really see a whole lot wrong with that.

[TJ]

Well, they may be adults, but they are adults with limited experience in the recruiting process.  I just don't see why we signed him to a NLI.  I just hope it wasn't to keep him away from other BE schools while we tried to get someone better.

I am very pleased that we ended up with Wilson.  I am not pleased how we got there though.  If we aren't commited to a kid, don't sign him to an NLI.  This is the second year in a row this has happened before the school year started.  In the first case, we convinced Roseboro to transfer.  In this case he was never admitted so we have an out.

Very unseemly.  I don't know how you can defend it at face value.

That's better than what I would have replied with, so I'll +1 it instead.

[Mike Deane]

Brad,
Questions for your sources and/or Newbill:
1.  Hypothetically speaking only, if Buzz had ever advised you to go to prep school as such to wait for an opportunity to open up at MU, would you have accepted and follow through with that advise?
2.  If yes to 1, why would you have done that?
3.  Officially (the times that counts against MU's recruiting hours per NCAA), who on the MU coaching staff had you talked to?  Officially, who at Strawberry Mansion could MU staff talk to with regards to your recruitment?
Mike

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Maybe. If Erik Williams can't get on the floor, maybe he would be better off elsewhere. If MU can recruit 3 top 100 guys, then, yes, maybe the last three guys would also be a better fit at a place like, oh i don't know...Wisconsin or UWM. That is obviously an extreme and unrealistic example, but you bring in the best talent you can, and guys that aren't up to the standard(s) MU establishes for iteself, are probably better served playing elsewhere. I guess I don't really see a whole lot wrong with that.

eek.

I hear you, but I just don't know if I want my alma mater turning into a basketball factory that will show kids the door simply because there are better players out there. I understand this is D1 hoops, but how cut throat are we going to get?

Pro sports? Absolutely.

College sports? I'm not sure I want to see that at my favorite school.

Let's at least keep the illusion of amateur athletics.