Big East getting proactive?

[chapman]

http://twitter.com/Wordmandc

Rumors swirling that there's some good feelings between the Big East and Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, and Iowa State.  Please let it happen.

[HouWarrior]

Twittering things his publisher wont print on his job-- now thats a rumor--and why I only read/trust Ashton Kutcher's twits--lol

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

20 teams?  Yeah, it's kinda unwieldy in some respects.  However, geographically speaking, it's not THAT crazy. 

Eastern Division (Football):  West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, South Florida
Western Division (Football):  Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Missouri, Cincinnati, Louisville

USF has long road trips regardless as is given the current configuration.  But this is pretty compact for the most part geographically.

Basketball-wise, you could either:

A) assign Marq, DePaul, ND to the Western Division, shifting USF over for scheduling purposes, and then assign Providence, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's to the Eastern Division (10 team divisions).  Play 5 games against the other division, 5 teams within your division once, and 4 teams in your division twice (18 games).  Top 8 in each division get into the conference tourney.

B) Divide based on geography into 4 pods.  Play 2 games against each opponent in your pod, and alternate 2 of the other 3 pods every year. 

Pod 1: Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Missouri, USF
Pod 2: Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincy
Pod 3: West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Villanova, Rutgers, Seton Hall
Pod 4: Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Providence, St. John's

Crazy?  Yeah.  Best option we might have? Damn well could be.

[bilsu]

If we go to 20 teams in basketball, I hope we go to a 19 game schedule and play everyone once. Of course one year you will have 9 home games and 10 road games and the next year you will have 10 home games and 9 road games. I am sure coaches will complain about that. But that is better than playing some teams twice or some teams not at all. The reality is that a 19 team conference would be better than a 20 team confereence, because you would then have an even 18 game schedule, if you played everyone once.

[Aughnanure]

As a Kansas State fan also...I would love this.

Although I would rather have Marquette in the division with Kansas, Kansas St, Mizzou and Iowa St.  I also wouldn't mind replacing Iowa St. with Memphis, but thatd be mean. They have been pounded more than any other team by the media about about how they are going to cut out of the BCS soon.

[Aughnanure]

If we go to 20 teams in basketball, I hope we go to a 19 game schedule and play everyone once. Of course one year you will have 9 home games and 10 road games and the next year you will have 10 home games and 9 road games. I am sure coaches will complain about that. But that is better than playing some teams twice or some teams not at all. The reality is that a 19 team conference would be better than a 20 team confereence, because you would then have an even 18 game schedule, if you played everyone once.

Easy fix. You just play your biggest rival (available) twice. 20 game schedule.

[chapman]

Agree Tanning Bed.  I love the "Pod" idea.  It keeps historical rivalries going, and brings things "closer to home" in a conference that otherwise is a mish-mash of schools from all over (though falls into place very nicely for football).  The four divisions also will be the best for television appeal/maximizing revenue.  Yes, Kansas/K-State, Marquette/Louisville, and UConn/Syracuse will play each other six times to two for a team outside the "Pod".  But we should play our rivals more often and teams in Florida or Rhode Island less often.  It would mean playing the other teams 2 out of 3 years and the specific vs. or at (traveling to or hosting outside-of-pod schools) once every four years (same as football).  Perfect way of dealing with such a large conference and it makes financial sense.  I don't think it's that hard to get over the fact that you don't play everyone in the conference, especially when it means avoiding a 20-game schedule that is more brutal and brings postseason risk into play, and knowing that it's a failure to capture the most revenue or put the heated rivalry games on television.  And a failure to capture revenue is the strength of other conferences and makes things more vulnerable to falling apart.  We've gotten used to it, but should we really miss out on playing Louisville or Notre Dame twice because we have to travel to Tampa or Providence?  The conference tournament decides the Champion.  It isn't devalued by not playing every team (it'll be tougher than an NCAA region and tougher than the current Big East tournament after all), and it's a reality of a 20-team conference...just like the NCAA tournament, you play your season for position, and winning the tournament makes you champion even if you didn't play all the teams in the tournament and even if you played a certain group of schools more during the season.  And the divisions are also great for bragging rights and it would be well-deserved to hang a "20XX Big East [Clever Name Here] Division Champions banner, especially when you beat out four geographically close teams who are generally historical rivals that you play played home-and-home games with during the season to earn that banner.

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

One other thing on a 12/20 arrangement:  in terms of TV, this formation of the Big East could be in very good shape in terms of a TV contract.

Here are the primary media markets represented in a 12/20 Big East Potential New Members in Bold, BBall Only in Italics):

New York: #1  (Syracuse, St. John's, Seton Hall, Rutgers)
Chicago: #3  (DePaul)
Philadelphia: #4  (Villanova)
Washington, DC: #9  (Georgetown)
Tampa: #14 (USF)
St. Louis: #21 (Missouri)
Pittsburgh, PA: #23 (Pittsburgh)
Hartford, CT: #30  (UConn)
Kansas City: #32 (Missouri/Kansas)
Cincinnati, OH: #33 (Cincy)
Milwaukee: #35 (Marquette)
Louisville: #49 (Louisville)
Providence: #53 (Providence)
Des Moines/Ames: #72 (Iowa State)
Syracuse: #83 (Syracuse)
South Bend: #91 (Notre Dame)

Doesn't seem like it adds much, right?  Consider, though, the potential TV impact of Nebraska on the Big 10.  Sure, it only brings in the #76 (Omaha) and #105 (Lincoln) media markets, but it consumes the entire state in reality.  Missouri and Kansas combined would swallow up a TON of TV sets in Missouri and much of Kansas (including K-State).  And the state of Missouri as a whole is 18th nationally in population (6 million), and Kansas is 33rd (2.8 million).  Nebraska is 40th (with 1.8 million).  That's almost 5 times the population of Nebraska alone.

Kansas draws HUGE in basketball in both Kansas and Missouri, but also nationally.  Missouri will have most of the TV sets in the state occupied on Saturday afternoons in the fall for football.  Also, there's a significant alumni base of Missouri and Kansas grads in Chicago too.

This could be a VERY shrewd move from a TV perspective as well for the Big East besides preserving their on-court/on-field product.

[chapman]

I think it's a bit of a paradigm shift to deal with 20 teams, but I would really enjoy it if it could be done right.  I also like that this conference in basketball gets all the value possible out of teams that don't "try" or are just a disaster at the moment.  Add four schools, including three NCAA tournament teams and a #1 and #2 seed and subtract Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, and St. John's and a 16 team conference gets 9 bids by the time everyone beats up on each other, despite the investment and effort put forth by so many of the nation's best programs.  With 20 teams and the "doormats" to ease the burden a little it can get 11 or 12 of the teams that play to win into the tournament.   It at least seems like 2-4 more bids for having four less than desirable teams around. 

Imagine if this was your Big East Tournament field last year:
Left at home: Rutgers, Iowa State, Providence, DePaul
1) Kansas
16) St. John's

8) Louisville
9) Georgetown

4) Kansas State
13) Seton Hall

5) Pittsburgh
12) South Florida

3) West Virginia
14) Cincinnati

6) Villanova
11) Notre Dame

7) Marquette
10) Missouri

2) Syracuse
15) UConn

As far as the football championship game, perhaps they would keep the New York theme going and try to hold it at New Meadowlands Stadium or Yankee Stadium.

[PBRme]

Promise to hold it in Kansas City and you might get more political support from Miss, UK and KSU

[NavinRJohnson]

Promise to hold it in Kansas City and you might get more political support from Miss, UK and KSU

Disagree...I assure you those coaches would be all to happy to play those games in NYC...at the Garden...in Prime time.

[MerrittsMustache]

One other thing on a 12/20 arrangement:  in terms of TV, this formation of the Big East could be in very good shape in terms of a TV contract.

Here are the primary media markets represented in a 12/20 Big East Potential New Members in Bold, BBall Only in Italics):

New York: #1  (Syracuse, St. John's, Seton Hall, Rutgers)
Chicago: #3  (DePaul)
Philadelphia: #4  (Villanova)
Washington, DC: #9  (Georgetown)
Tampa: #14 (USF)
St. Louis: #21 (Missouri)
Pittsburgh, PA: #23 (Pittsburgh)
Hartford, CT: #30  (UConn)
Kansas City: #32 (Missouri/Kansas)
Cincinnati, OH: #33 (Cincy)
Milwaukee: #35 (Marquette)
Louisville: #49 (Louisville)
Providence: #53 (Providence)
Des Moines/Ames: #72 (Iowa State)
Syracuse: #83 (Syracuse)
South Bend: #91 (Notre Dame)

In terms of media markets represented, ND gets more attention in Chicago than DePaul, especially lately.

[TJ]

Disagree...I assure you those coaches would be all to happy to play those games in NYC...at the Garden...in Prime time.

he's talking about the football championship game.

[Mr. Nielsen]

This might work as long as the Big Ten doesn't dip into the Big East.

20 schools is alot. I think 16 is alot.

[chapman]

This might work as long as the Big Ten doesn't dip into the Big East.

I think of it as insurance.  If the Big Ten takes one football school from the Big East right now, the conference is going to lose its BCS status and is doomed.  Adding the four Big 12 schools gives some protection - you don't want to lose Syracuse, Pitt, and Rutgers and replace with Memphis, UCF, and Temple but there would be a chance of still being a BCS conference should it happen, at least more than if it had five football teams left.  If it loses Notre Dame, then Xavier is brought in.  It would be trouble if the SEC took some ACC schools and the Big Ten and ACC combined wanted 6 or more Big East teams - but still a better way to die than simply losing one or two Big East teams to the Big Ten and being left with 6 or 7 football schools doing everything they can to get out.

[T-Bone]

Here's the twitter's article.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sports/blogs/Watch-This/Remaining-Big-12-schools-to-the-Big-East-gaining-momentum-96137294.html

[KipsBayEagle]

Who would have thought we could end up being a winner in this?

[GGGG]

If they add the four Big 12 remnants, the B10 could still poach Rutgers and it wouldn't kill the conference.  Good work by the conference, but the next two weeks will tell the tale.

I'm a little concerned about the viability of a 20 team basketball conference though.  The football schools will have a majority, and I'm wondering if the 20 teams becomes unworkable, if they just might find a way to seperate and keep their BCS bid in the process.

So my point Kips, is that while the BE could be a winner, I'm not sure if MU will be in the long run.

[john_cocktoasten]

The Big East is like the Big 12... Their is no way to save it. This is about football and schools like Rutgers, West Virgina, Louisville and Syracuse are just waiting to be invited to play with the big boys. Bringing in four more average football teams wont intice these schools to stay.

[bma725]

I'm a little concerned about the viability of a 20 team basketball conference though.  The football schools will have a majority, and I'm wondering if the 20 teams becomes unworkable, if they just might find a way to seperate and keep their BCS bid in the process.

So my point Kips, is that while the BE could be a winner, I'm not sure if MU will be in the long run.

Bingo.  The football schools already don't like having the basketball school around, but with only 8 teams they can't really dump them.  If they can get the Big 12 cast offs and not lose anyone, they have enough football teams that they can form their own 12 team BCS conference and get rid of the basketball schools once and for all.

[GGGG]

Furthermore, the BE will continue to have the smallest resource base of the major conferences...and that gap will likely have grown.  The B12 cast offs are cast offs for a reason.

[GOO]

A basketball only conference is not looking so bad, in my opinion. I do agree that if the BE goes to 20, it is only a matter of time before the split or maybe right away.  I don't think it would be the worst thing, not as good as we have it now, but better than we have historically had it. I for one am not worried about the BCS schools setting up their own basketball tournament as a non-NCAA tournament.  The BCS and the new conferences will probably shift before that happens. 

I would worry about the 12 new football schools selecting ND, Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's or some combination of basketball onlys to get to 16 teams.  However, with the western presence of the new football teams and ND in, we could be one of the 4 basketball only schools to get to the 16 teams.

[martyconlonontherun]

What would the Big East gain by dropping the BBall teams? Do they really cost the BE anything? I would think they would only take away basketball revenue, but MU probably gets as much as the football schools due to their tourney success.

[HoopsMalone]

If all of the other conferences have 16 football teams, I don't think having 20 hoops teams is completely outrageous.  If the other conferences had 10 teams, 20 looks outrageous in comparison probably.

[chapman]

A basketball only conference is not looking so bad, in my opinion. I do agree that if the BE goes to 20, it is only a matter of time before the split or maybe right away.  I don't think it would be the worst thing, not as good as we have it now, but better than we have historically had it. I for one am not worried about the BCS schools setting up their own basketball tournament as a non-NCAA tournament.  The BCS and the new conferences will probably shift before that happens.  

I would worry about the 12 new football schools selecting ND, Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's or some combination of basketball onlys to get to 16 teams.  However, with the western presence of the new football teams and ND in, we could be one of the 4 basketball only schools to get to the 16 teams.

At 12 and adding four basketball schools, you have at least 11 of the 16 expecting to play in the NCAA Tournament every year when 9 will be the norm after conference play, and a few others who at least have some hope being pounded into perennial doormats.  At 20 you can get the schools who make the investment and play for the NCAA every year into the tournament, since 11 or 12 will get in.  It's a free pass to abuse DePaul, Providence, and Seton Hall to get yourself into the NCAA, stroke your own ego, and get your own payout as well as the conference share, which might be even better than casting them aside.  Furthermore, basketball-only schools provide either a foothold or exclusive access to the New York, Washington, Philadelphia, Chicago, Providence/Boston, Milwaukee, and South Bend markets listed above.