Is Crean In Trouble?

[NersEllenson]

You ever wonder why? Perhaps because they were underutilized? Watching that team their Jr year you would have thought that neither of those two guys knew how to play one lick of basketball, which proved to be incorrect. I understand we had the Big 3, but you need to understand that the Big 3 didn't need to average 35+ mpg, especially in blowouts, with guys like acker and cubillan on the bench- Cubillan averaged 9.5mpg and Acker 16.2mpg (inflated because of DJames injury). Again, guys 7-10 on the roster...

Please..MU was 23-4 at the time Dominic James went down.  The team was ranked 8 in the country.  Again, armchair guys like you will only be happy if MU is undefeated and blows every team out.  Also, you didn't rebut any of what I'd written about last year's 7-10 players...we didn't even have 10.  We basically had a bench of Buycks, Fulce, Erik Williams...so guys 6, 7 and 8.  Would you say Fulce exceeded your expectations?  Would you think playing Erik Williams in front of Fulce to sub for Lazar or Jimmy would have resulted in more wins for last year's team??  Please don't try to tell me Erik Williams as a freshman was the difference between MU winning or losing a few more games last year.

[NersEllenson]

It's not even laughable, it's absurd but hatred can really get the best of reason.

The only absurd thing is that you continue to go to any length to defend Tom Crean.  You don't rebut any valid points any of us make regarding Tom Crean.  Here's a post you have yet to respond to..please rebut these comments:

  Re: Is Crean In Trouble?
« Reply #92 on: Today at 05:16:09 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on Today at 01:31:44 PM
MU had an All Big East first team pre-season selection (Hayward).  IU, no players even close.


True, and he was recruited by Crean, so props to Crean in that regards.


Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on Today at 01:31:44 PM
MU had a player that would earn Honorable Mention All Big East player (Butler). IU, maybe if their best player didn't blow out his leg before the Big Ten season started.


Recruited by Buzz, but Crean had the same amount of time to get a guy like this.  Why didn't he?  He's at IU...should be an easy sell.


Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on Today at 01:31:44 PM
MU had Wisconsin High School player of the Year with Maymon (before transferring).  IU, no players that fit that bill.


Recruited by Buzz, but Crean had the same amount of time to get a guy like this.  Why didn't he?  He's at IU...should be an easy sell.



Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on Today at 01:31:44 PM
MU had an All American JUCO first team in DJO.


Recruited by Buzz, but Crean had the same amount of time to get a guy like this.  Why didn't he?  He's at IU...should be an easy sell.


Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on Today at 01:31:44 PM
I could go on.  One team had very good players coming back, the other team is still stacked with freshmen and sophomores, mostly, that they had to take flyers on just to fill a team. 


So....based on the above...other than it not being possible to have a guy like Lazar (though, he could have had a guy like Crawford...), I don't see why Crean is still fumbling 3 years into the job...

[NersEllenson]

It's not even laughable, it's absurd but hatred can really get the best of reason.

While we are on the topic of absured, please also provide rebuttals for my previous post, posted earlier in the thread:

It also should be noted that Crean recruited 2 JUCO's who were seniors last year - both in their 2nd year at IU - Devin Dumes and Tijan Jobe who produced a combined 7 points and 2.6 rebounds per game as seniors.  Interestingly enough, Dumes numbers regressed significantly as a senior:

JR Year at IU:   (27 games, 27.0 minutes, 12.7ppg, 2.9 rpg)
SR Year at IU:   (30 games, 17.8 minutes, 6.6ppg, 2.0rpg)

Quite the opposite of Jimmy Butler's numbers, also a late signing 2008 pick up, throw in DJO to the mix as a late signee in 2009, its clear to see why MU was a lot better than IU

It should also be noted Crean lost Nick Williams after a very productive freshman year to a transfer.  Crean also lost Jordan Crawford and Armon Bassett two top players brought in under Kelvin Sampson.  So to parallel his situation to the one Buzz faced lets say Crawford = Tyshawn Taylor, Bassett = Mbawke, Nick Williams = Jerrone Maymon (as Maymon was a Buzz guy that Buzz lost, and Williams was a Crean guy, that crean lost.).  Not to mention Nick Williams was supposed to come to MU, which left us that hole.

The reality is that the situations in year 2 really were not all that different...AND...IU is a Top 5 basketball brand/program to sell..which like it or not, is the reason Crean left MU - he saw it as a better program with a bigger national profile (and most college basketball fans would draw the same conclusions.)  This fact just makes the results up to this point reflect more poorly on Tom Crean, while illuminating the job Buzz Williams has done. 

[77ncaachamps]

Let's just call TC what he really is: A "bridge" coach who will give you good seasons, make you feel important, lift a program, but never, ever, ever going to take you to the promised land.

He was the "bridge" coach at MU. He was blessed with Wade.

Now at "II,II", he's cleaning up the program and bringing respectability back. He's gone in a few years when he cannot bring in the recruits who are needed to life II,II to the Big 10 title and beyond. They'll thank him for being an integral part of a painful transition back to credibility but he's no Bob Knight... I predict he'll take over for Izzo when Izzo wisens up about the money he could be making in the NBA.

[rocky_warrior]

The only absurd thing is that you continue to go to any length to defend Tom Crean.  You don't rebut any valid points any of us make regarding Tom Crean.  Here's a post you have yet to respond to..please rebut these comments:

Don't worry  - he likely will (if he has time), and the answer will probably have something to do with the fact that IU had self imposed recruiting limitations because of Sampson.  They like to point out that IU is (was?) on NCAA probation, but that just means...don't do it again.

The self-imposed sanctions, announced in October 2007 by Rick Greenspan and Grace Calhoun, included the following:

    * A second year of restrictions on recruiting calls tighter than is permitted by the NCAA.
    * Reduced Kelvin Sampson's off-campus recruiting opportunities and took away a basketball scholarship for 2008-09. The off-campus recruiting penalties were extended to Tom Crean after he took the job in April, but IU opted to allow Crean 10 days to recruit off-campus.
    * The basketball staff also had one less coach available for recruiting during the 2007-08 recruiting year.
    * Sampson also voluntarily agreed to forego a $500,000 compensation increase for the 2007-2008 season.

[Doctor V]

Please..MU was 23-4 at the time Dominic James went down.  The team was ranked 8 in the country.  Again, armchair guys like you will only be happy if MU is undefeated and blows every team out.  Also, you didn't rebut any of what I'd written about last year's 7-10 players...we didn't even have 10.  We basically had a bench of Buycks, Fulce, Erik Williams...so guys 6, 7 and 8.  Would you say Fulce exceeded your expectations?  Would you think playing Erik Williams in front of Fulce to sub for Lazar or Jimmy would have resulted in more wins for last year's team??  Please don't try to tell me Erik Williams as a freshman was the difference between MU winning or losing a few more games last year.

When would armchair guys like you ever be unhappy with Buzz, or for that matter happy with what Crean gave? I am actually VERY happy with what Buzz has done thus far and how MU performed this past season. I have repeatedly said that I think he is a great recruiter, has been excellent for the university, seems to be loved by his players, and has showed great upside as a college head coach.

That said, not everything in life has to be 100% perfect or 100% wrong, as you seem to think. Just like you and I at our jobs, everyone has strengths and weaknesses and everyone can improve. Even guys that have been doing it for 30 years with success, let alone guys on in their 3rd year on the job

I believe this board is meant to discuss things like this. My point is that the areas that I personally feel Buzz can improve on is the use of his bench, his halftime adjustments and end-of-the-game coaching, and his composure (much better in year two, but still seems to get flustered at times and I feel it rubs off on the team)

NOW, you might not agree with any of that, and I do not expect you too because you will defend Coach Williams at any cost, but I could care less. I would like to see you mention something that you think Buzz could improve on after his first two seasons...

Again Ive said this repeatedly, but about players #7-10 I feel that Cubillan and Acker were underutilized in year 1. Also, despite coming back from injury I feel Fulce and OTule could have been used more too. In year #2, I feel like Fulce, EWill, and Yous prior to injury were underutilized/underdeveloped. Do I think we would have won more games if those guys were used more often in the right situations (20 pt leads, 1-2 minute stretches at certain points in the first half, etc€)? ABSOLUTELY. Do I feel that Buzz's inexperience as head coach and loss of composure might have cost MU a few wins? ABSOLUTELY. Do I feel that Buzz's genious as recruiter and motivator got the most out of many of his guys? ABSOLUTELY. Do I feel we are in good hands? DEFINITELY

You see how everything isn't always black/white? How things aren't always one way or the other?

Most importantly, these upcoming teams will present a bigger challenge for Buzz because he has many more highly tauted recruits. EVERYONE will want playing time and will want to be a major part of the team. Inevitably, not everyone will be able to get the minutes they expected, and this will be the tough part for Buzz. In the end, its easy to continuously play 5 and 6 guys and say that the team is thin due to injury, and that the guys left cannot help us win right now and they will play when they can. The hard part comes when you've got everyone healthy, and eager to play and produce. Buzz repeatedly says he wants to go 9.5 deep, and I believe him. We will see these next few years how effective he is with keeping guys #7-12 happy and getting the most out of them

[ChicosBailBonds]

Again, why on earth can't people just appreciate both.  I don't get it, never have, never will.

People literally make up crap to bring down TC's record.  It's comical.

Oh well, it is what it is.  Thank you TC for putting MU back on the map and taking us places that we haven't been in decades.  Thank you Buzz for keeping the momentum going.  I hope you can also take us to that same place or beyond.

[Marquette84]

Please go back and quote where I said Buzz was in a worse position than TC..I look forward to you not being able to do so.  No wonder you and 84 and Chicos all think alike - you completely fabricate and twist things I write..never said Buzz was in a worse position than TC, not once.

The answer lies in your post that tried to establish how bad things were when Buzz took over.

Here's a couple of simple questions for you:

True or false: Buzz inherited a roster of 10 returning players and 3 recruits under LOI the day he was hired.
True or false:  Those players were evenly balanced across the classes the day he was hired (4 seniors-to-be, 3 juniors, 3 sophs, 3 frosh).

I'm really trying to understand how you come to the logic that others "completely fabricate and twist things" when you yourself are the biggest offender. In this thread you claim Buzz didn't have a full and balanced roster when he took over--yet you cannot deny the two truths listed above.  In other words, you twisted the facts to claim that the cupboard was bare. 

The reason why Buzz only had 3 holdovers from Crean this year is because Buzz (by his own choice or not) saw most of the team leave. 

[pbiflyer]

Let's just call TC what he really is: A "bridge" coach who will give you good seasons, make you feel important, lift a program, but never, ever, ever going to take you to the promised land.

He was the "bridge" coach at MU. He was blessed with Wade.

Now at "II,II", he's cleaning up the program and bringing respectability back. He's gone in a few years when he cannot bring in the recruits who are needed to life II,II to the Big 10 title and beyond. They'll thank him for being an integral part of a painful transition back to credibility but he's no Bob Knight... I predict he'll take over for Izzo when Izzo wisens up about the money he could be making in the NBA.

Very well said. And I think II,II admin had exactly that in mind when they brought him in. He is what they needed at the time.

[Canadian Dimes]

I will only say this becuase I think it transcends wheteher you like Crean or not....How many people reading this honestly thought in his third recruiting class at Indiana Crean would sign two players that ranked around 125 to 150 in the player rankings and a third that is rated the 66th best JUCO prospect?
Quite frankly would you ever think the coach at Indiana (regardless of who he was) would do that?


Winning in college BBall is 90% recruiting.   

[Nukem2]

Again, why on earth can't people just appreciate both.  I don't get it, never have, never will.

People literally make up crap to bring down TC's record.  It's comical.

Oh well, it is what it is.  Thank you TC for putting MU back on the map and taking us places that we haven't been in decades.  Thank you Buzz for keeping the momentum going.  I hope you can also take us to that same place or beyond.

Agreed.  Some folks just can stand prosperity.  Lets all move on ane enjoy MU basketball.

[NersEllenson]

I believe this board is meant to discuss things like this. My point is that the areas that I personally feel Buzz can improve on is the use of his bench, his halftime adjustments and end-of-the-game coaching, and his composure (much better in year two, but still seems to get flustered at times and I feel it rubs off on the team)

NOW, you might not agree with any of that, and I do not expect you too because you will defend Coach Williams at any cost, but I could care less. I would like to see you mention something that you think Buzz could improve on after his first two seasons...

Again Ive said this repeatedly, but about players #7-10 I feel that Cubillan and Acker were underutilized in year 1. Also, despite coming back from injury I feel Fulce and OTule could have been used more too. In year #2, I feel like Fulce, EWill, and Yous prior to injury were underutilized/underdeveloped. Do I think we would have won more games if those guys were used more often in the right situations (20 pt leads, 1-2 minute stretches at certain points in the first half, etc€)? ABSOLUTELY. Do I feel that Buzz's inexperience as head coach and loss of composure might have cost MU a few wins? ABSOLUTELY. Do I feel that Buzz's genious as recruiter and motivator got the most out of many of his guys? ABSOLUTELY. Do I feel we are in good hands? DEFINITELY

You see how everything isn't always black/white? How things aren't always one way or the other?

Most importantly, these upcoming teams will present a bigger challenge for Buzz because he has many more highly tauted recruits. EVERYONE will want playing time and will want to be a major part of the team. Inevitably, not everyone will be able to get the minutes they expected, and this will be the tough part for Buzz. In the end, its easy to continuously play 5 and 6 guys and say that the team is thin due to injury, and that the guys left cannot help us win right now and they will play when they can. The hard part comes when you've got everyone healthy, and eager to play and produce. Buzz repeatedly says he wants to go 9.5 deep, and I believe him. We will see these next few years how effective he is with keeping guys #7-12 happy and getting the most out of them

I disagree with most of your logic, particularily the bold parts.  I don't see how you are going to argue with how the team was coached when the team was 23-4 and #8 in the country before Dominic James went down.  The reality is that DJ, Jerel, and Wes were much better players than Mo and Cooby - and why play Mo and Cooby more when you are 23-4 and #8 in the country?  Why give up 3-6" and 25+ pounds at 2 positions on an already undersized team?  As I've said, Erik Williams wasn't going to be the difference between MU winning or losing games last year.  Fulce was used quite a bit, so long as he didn't make stupid fouls.  Buzz ball involves making more free throws than the other team attempts.  When Fulce would make dumb fouls, he'd get yanked.  That said, Fulce still showed more as a Junior, than did E-Will as a freshman.

Let's see how Buzz utilizes a bench of talented, high major players - as this is the first time in his time at MU he will have had that.  I'm curious to see how he splits up minutes, and am excited to see the brand of ball we play.  I highly doubt Buzz will only play a 6-7 man rotation next year - as the 8, 9 and 10 guys will be legit, high-major players.

[79Warrior]

Actually, I don't think it is a stretch to think MU could make the Final Four in 2011-2012 with DJO as a senior, Crowder as a senior, and IF (big if) somehow Vander Blue or Jamail Jones turn out to be the next coming of d-Wade!!  Actually, they may not need to be D-Wade good, because there will be a lot of talent around - top to bottom of roster.

And I don't blame Tom Crean for Taylor and Williams for leaving, nor do I blame Buzz for Christopherson and Mbawke leaving - as those were Tom Crean recruits...and either they didn't like Buzz, or Buzz wasn't totally sold on them (at least in the case of Christopherson - we know Mbawke left late - but recently tweeted that he regrets leaving, as he "see's Buzz has kept the program relevant.")  Perhaps Trevor had doubts about Buzz - just like many of us did initially - though mine have been completely extinguished - some here remain unsold.

And as for the Hazel situation - he was a Tom Crean recruit who Buzz retained, and who would have played a role - had he not run astray of program rules...which thus lead to his departure.

Considering Crowder, Jones nor Blue have suited up yet your Final Four comment is comical. While I know you put a "big if" on your comment, the fact that you even think that w/o seeing the guys play a BE game is absurd.

[NersEllenson]

Considering Crowder, Jones nor Blue have suited up yet your Final Four comment is comical. While I know you put a "big if" on your comment, the fact that you even think that w/o seeing the guys play a BE game is absurd.

Hey - I've gone out on a limb and made an agressive prediction.  This will give you, and some of the others a chance to ridicule me extensively if the 2011-2012 team flames out in the first round of the NCAA, or even 2nd round for that matter.  Like you mention, I qualified it with a big "if," so therefore not sure why it is so absurd..that if Jamail Jones or Vander turned out to be the 2nd coming of D-Wade..why we wouldn't be a legitimate Final Four caliber team.  Truthfully, I think Jones and Blue just need to be very solid, 12-14ppg players as sophomores for MU to have a chance at the Final Four.  Pardon my optimism

[NersEllenson]

The answer lies in your post that tried to establish how bad things were when Buzz took over.

Here's a couple of simple questions for you:

True or false: Buzz inherited a roster of 10 returning players and 3 recruits under LOI the day he was hired.
True or false:  Those players were evenly balanced across the classes the day he was hired (4 seniors-to-be, 3 juniors, 3 sophs, 3 frosh).

I'm really trying to understand how you come to the logic that others "completely fabricate and twist things" when you yourself are the biggest offender. In this thread you claim Buzz didn't have a full and balanced roster when he took over--yet you cannot deny the two truths listed above.  In other words, you twisted the facts to claim that the cupboard was bare. 

The reason why Buzz only had 3 holdovers from Crean this year is because Buzz (by his own choice or not) saw most of the team leave. 

Here was the original discussion...and I've posted multiple times how both Crean and Buzz lost LOI guys from the previous coach, dealt with injuries and transfers to their own recruits.  Just once, please read what I write.  The situations weren't too dissimilar in Year 2.  Yes, Buzz had it better because we had Lazar..for sure..but after that...it was all things virtually equal in Year 2.  The fact IU lost its last 12 of its last 13 games by roughly 20 points per game is horrendous.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 15, 2010, 11:35:07 AM

I think you guys fail to understand how bad it was when Sampson left...and that Crean lost his best recruit when he went down with an injury last year.  He's not going to bring them back to the NCAA championship, but he will eventually get them to the NCAA tournament on a regular basis.


I think some MU fans fail to realize how bad it was at MU after Crean left (once the Big 3 graduated)  Of course we got 1 year with the Big 3 - but after that, all that was left was basically Lazar, Mo, and Cooby.  Both Crean and Buzz were in year 2 of their tenure - Buzz had the above 3 players, and nothing else.  Buzz lost his Top 2 recruits - one to injury and one to transfer.  Also lost his starting center. (So Crean lost his top-rated recruit?)  Yet, somehow, Buzz guided us to a 5th place finish in Big East and 22 wins, and damn near a Sweet 16 birth (if you extrapolate that MU would have beat New Mexico, considering how Washington destroyed them.)

[muwarrior69]

Again, why on earth can't people just appreciate both.  I don't get it, never have, never will.

People literally make up crap to bring down TC's record.  It's comical.

Oh well, it is what it is.  Thank you TC for putting MU back on the map and taking us places that we haven't been in decades.  Thank you Buzz for keeping the momentum going.  I hope you can also take us to that same place or beyond.

Agree 100%. Who would tell their current boss, co-workers and/or reports that they were offered a new job or seeking a new job? I would like to give TC the benefit of the doubt that once he agreed to take the IU position, things cascaded so fast that contacting people personally before anyone else knew was not possible. I wish him well at IU and so far I am very pleased with Buzz as he has exceeded my expectations.

[Doctor V]

Agree 100%. Who would tell their current boss, co-workers and/or reports that they were offered a new job or seeking a new job? I would like to give TC the benefit of the doubt that once he agreed to take the IU position, things cascaded so fast that contacting people personally before anyone else knew was not possible. I wish him well at IU and so far I am very pleased with Buzz as he has exceeded my expectations.

Actually, I was recently offered a new job and told my boss about it, and that I am looking into it. Didn't tell my employees, because I didn't want to cause drama in the office just yet (bunch of women). However, the minute I make the decision to take the new position, they will know. That said, I know TC's situation was on a bigger stage with media and stuff, but all he would have had to do is tell IU that he needs a few hrs or a day to decide, and taken care of the situation at MU. He prob just busted a nut and accepted on the spot, which would be understandable because Its Indiana

[Hards Alumni]

For what it is worth, I talked to 3 IU alums while on vacation.  They were all probably around my age (28)

They are fine with TC, and what he is doing.  They are happy that academics have been restored at IU, and that they aren't embarassed with the way that the ship has been righted.  They did say that after this year, winning will start to matter a lot more.  They hated Sampson, and felt like he killed a little part of IU.

Also, I had the unfortunate job of telling some older MU grads that the 'Lanche, Gym Bar, et al. are no longer a part of the MU experience... they were sad.

[79Warrior]

Very well said. And I think II,II admin had exactly that in mind when they brought him in. He is what they needed at the time.

Are you nuts?? They pay him 2mm to be a bridge coach? You guys have your heads so far up you respective as### it IS funny.

[cheebs09]

Not a huge point in all this, but about the part where Cubillan was being underutilized in Year 1. I don't think the Cubillan of this year was anything like the Cubillan of the year before. I think his shoulders were bugging him quite a bit and the extra year removed from the surgery allowed him to be a very productive member of the team. I do agree somewhat with Acker being underused. He proved that he was a solid player when he took over for James. Although, James was playing at such a high level that it was tough to take him off the floor. Also, Acker seems to be someone who plays better in long stretches, and Buzz wasn't taking James off the court.

One of my criticisms I guess with Buzz is sometimes he gets a few guys and sticks with them and the rest of the bench doesn't play as much. Even in the non-conference season, it seems like we leave starters in too long. Although I know a lot of this was shaped by the near-debacle at Rutgers two years ago where we almost lost a 20 pt lead with our subs. I think as he gets players that he has recruited and built relationships with, he might go to a deeper bench. Also, he had to succeed right away or else people would question the hire, so maybe he will be more willing to go to the bench once he establishes himself here.

[Canadian Dimes]

For what it is worth, I talked to 3 IU alums while on vacation.  They were all probably around my age (28)

They are fine with TC, and what he is doing.  They are happy that academics have been restored at IU, and that they aren't embarassed with the way that the ship has been righted.  They did say that after this year, winning will start to matter a lot more.  They hated Sampson, and felt like he killed a little part of IU.

Also, I had the unfortunate job of telling some older MU grads that the 'Lanche, Gym Bar, et al. are no longer a part of the MU experience... they were sad.

I spoke to an IU alum this saturday night late night in a bar.  He is approx. 50 and a long long time footbal and bball season ticket holder.  He did not renew his tickets for next year.  He thinks Crean is a good enough guy in the sense that he will do things the right way but is absolutely disgusted with his incoming class. Was simply besides himself that Crean could possibly sign that type of class.  I had told him two years ago that his loss was our gain, and he said he hoped he was wrong but was beginning to think i might be right. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I spoke to an IU alum this saturday night late night in a bar.  He is approx. 50 and a long long time footbal and bball season ticket holder.  He did not renew his tickets for next year.  He thinks Crean is a good enough guy in the sense that he will do things the right way but is absolutely disgusted with his incoming class. Was simply besides himself that Crean could possibly sign that type of class.  I had told him two years ago that his loss was our gain, and he said he hoped he was wrong but was beginning to think i might be right. 

Did you tell him your heart wrenching story about your son and the MU camp that Crean was at?  I'll bet that got him.      I always love these types of stories that "long time season ticket holder drops tickets in disgust" and when the season comes around, low and behold the guy is there in his seats 95% of the time.  And if he really did drop them and they turn it around (with Crean or some other coach), he's in the back of the line. 


By the way, did you see attendance numbers the other day?

MU went from 16,200 in 2009 to 15,617 in 2010.  A 3.6% drop

IU went from 14,331 in 2009 to 15,296 in 2010.  A 6.74% increase despite a horrible economy.

IU can actually afford attendance drops because they have football and a big check coming from the Big Ten Network each year.  MU, unfortunately, relies on attendance in a big way.  Let's hope we can turn that aspect around as it is a major source of revenue life for the program we love so much Mr. Hayward.

[Tugg Speedman]

I spoke to an IU alum this saturday night late night in a bar.  He is approx. 50 and a long long time footbal and bball season ticket holder.  He did not renew his tickets for next year.  He thinks Crean is a good enough guy in the sense that he will do things the right way but is absolutely disgusted with his incoming class. Was simply besides himself that Crean could possibly sign that type of class.  I had told him two years ago that his loss was our gain, and he said he hoped he was wrong but was beginning to think i might be right. 

+1

If Crean cannot get the five star recruit now, what is going to take to get one next year and the year after?  Doing well and finishing 6th to 8th in B10?  That's what holding back Brandon Dawson and other like him from going to IU?

Again, the expectation was he would be signing 5-star recruits and McDonald's AA like like Izzo and Thad Motta and the IU faithful would be patient while these young/green kids developed over the next few years.  

Instead Crean's recruits suggesting he's putting together a solid 6 to 10th place B10 year in and year out.  Who is IU going to beat every year besides PSU?  They are not beating MSU, OSU, IL, Wisc, Purdue.  So everything everything breaks their way and they get lucky, they are 6th in the B10.  One thing goes wrong and they are 8th to 10th.

This is not what Bloomington bargained for.

[Tugg Speedman]

MU went from 16,200 in 2009 to 15,617 in 2010.  A 3.6% drop
IU went from 14,331 in 2009 to 15,296 in 2010.  A 6.74% increase despite a horrible economy.

Chicos, if you give tixs away, you fill seats and then people like you use these inflated numbers to justify the health of a sick program.

----


Economy won't play larger role
February 11, 2009

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3897386

INDIANAPOLIS -- The NCAA promises not to bust a budget or a bracket when March Madness arrives.

The recession has some schools scrambling to fill budget holes and seats.

Last month, The Associated Press reported Stanford University projects a $5 million shortfall over the next three years and is considering reducing its staff. At Indiana, athletic director Fred Glass has reduced ticket costs for balcony seating to $5, hoping to improve slipping attendance.

----

If MU charged $5 to sit in the balcony they would average 18k.

[NersEllenson]

By the way, did you see attendance numbers the other day?

MU went from 16,200 in 2009 to 15,617 in 2010.  A 3.6% drop

IU went from 14,331 in 2009 to 15,296 in 2010.  A 6.74% increase despite a horrible economy.

You do realize last year MU had a very poor schedule with regard to Saturday games, correct?  I believe we had 3 home games - Villanova, South Florida and Notre Dame - on Saturdays, not nearly as many as year's past.  Also, considering most people were predicting doom for the program once the Messiah left (and the Big 3 left), perhaps some casual fans weren't inclined to buy MU tickets.  Hard to believe attendance was on the rise at IU as the team lost 12 of its last 13 games by average margin of 20+ points - that said I realize they count sold tickets, not actually turnstile counts - the sad reality is that the increased sales illustrate increased expectations for better performance...clearly the product on the floor didn't justify the consumer's expectations.