MU #18 team of the past decade

[rocky_warrior]

I can't have a rational debate with a wrestler, over a basketball matter.  There's a reason you were a wrestler, and I was a basketball player.  There is a reason former basketball players NEVER become wrestling coaches, and former wrestlers never become basketball coaches.   There is a reason former basketball players become basketball coaches.  Just aas there is a reason former wrestlers become wrestling coaches. 

By that logic, any former athlete should probably stay out of message board debates. 

I'm gonna' pretend you two weren't just slinging insults (one of the few things against the rules here...), and leave this thread stand.  But the fact that you''re debating how well athletes of other sports can even possibly understand the game of basketball, tells me that you're NOT talking about "MU #18 team of the past decade".

So, for that reason, I think you should probably just drop it.

p.s. - I also think some of you have WAY too much free time...but as a guy with over 74 hours on the board...I'm hardly one to judge

[Hards Alumni]

I'm glad that you've at least convinced yourself.  Anyone here agreeing with Ners?  I'm waiting for SOMEONE.

I'll wait.

[romey]

I'm afraid I can't comment because I didn't coach children at a basketball clinic - but I DID stay at a Holiday inn Express last night.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I would only note that Badgermaniac, the guy who runs Badgernation, also coached kids (girls).

I cannot offer more conclusive proof that just because someone coached kids it does not extrapolate to mean they have a clue on anything in life, including basketball.   

[NersEllenson]

In the NBA (of the 27 teams with head coaches currently) Only 4 didn't play professionally, and of those 4, 3 at least played at the college level, and only 1 (Stan Van Gundy) didn't play at the college level. Pretty conclusive evidence that former players are thought to have the best understanding of the game.

Other than Chicos (who to no surprise takes an adversarial position to my point), no one here disputes that former basketball players, tend to have more knowledge about the game of basketball than those who didn't play the game..at least at the minimum of the high school level.  Chicos, Hards, Romey - feel free to ridicule my having coached at MU basketball camps during the Deane years - the reality is that they don't invite complete basketball morons, or those without any basketball skill to coach at camp.

I apologize to any Scoopers who were non-baskeball players if I offended them with my argument over the merits of a former wrestlers point of view vs. my own.   

[4everwarriors]

A former Warrior once told me he didn't care much for Crean since he never played the game.

[Golden Avalanche]

A former Warrior once told me he didn't care much for Crean since he never played the game.

What is the highest level of ball that Buzz played at?

[NersEllenson]

What is the highest level of ball that Buzz played at?

I believe Buzz, like Crean, ended his playing days in High School.  I'm pretty sure neither Buzz nor TC were 3-time letter winners in wrestling during their High School years.  But, I'd put my money on Buzz in a wrestling  match against TC.   

[GOMU1104]

Ners...Nobody cares what you did in high school.

[NersEllenson]

Ners...Nobody cares what you did in high school.

I agree - probably didn't need to share that with the entire board, but after HardsAlumni trotted out his VP of senior class, officer of several clubs, member of prom court...AND being a 3-time letter winner in wrestling...felt it necessary to rebut with my being a high school basketball player, and shape my argument based on my basketball background vs. his wrestling background.  (I did spare y'all with the rest my high school accomplishments, and wrote that I felt cheesy for even listing that I played high school ball.)

[ChicosBailBonds]

A former Warrior once told me he didn't care much for Crean since he never played the game.

Funny, since Buzz didn't play either, at least not at a high level.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In the NBA (of the 27 teams with head coaches currently) Only 4 didn't play professionally, and of those 4, 3 at least played at the college level, and only 1 (Stan Van Gundy) didn't play at the college level. Pretty conclusive evidence that former players are thought to have the best understanding of the game.

Other than Chicos (who to no surprise takes an adversarial position to my point), no one here disputes that former basketball players, tend to have more knowledge about the game of basketball than those who didn't play the game..at least at the minimum of the high school level.  Chicos, Hards, Romey - feel free to ridicule my having coached at MU basketball camps during the Deane years - the reality is that they don't invite complete basketball morons, or those without any basketball skill to coach at camp.

Ironic, again.  I've seen you on several occasions here mention how terrible certain coaches are, yet those guys were invited to more than just coach at a basketball camp...in fact, they have coached for years (decades often).  Seems to shoot your own argument right in the head.  If they are terrible, your words, yet they have coached for decades at high levels (college, JUCOs, high school) then how on earth can you square that with your argument that just because you helped assist coach in some basketball camps your acumen is somehow superior?

[4everwarriors]

Funny, since Buzz didn't play either, at least not at a high level.

No, but his wife did. Does that count?

[NersEllenson]

Ironic, again.  I've seen you on several occasions here mention how terrible certain coaches are, yet those guys were invited to more than just coach at a basketball camp...in fact, they have coached for years (decades often).  Seems to shoot your own argument right in the head.  If they are terrible, your words, yet they have coached for decades at high levels (college, JUCOs, high school) then how on earth can you square that with your argument that just because you helped assist coach in some basketball camps your acumen is somehow superior?

You continue to amaze me with your inability to make good points.   Which coaches have I mentioned were terrible?  Can you search my whole post history and please find where I've said a coach is terrible, or even bad for that matter?  You are the idiot who tried to rebut my post that there is a reason former basketball players become basketball coaches, and why former wrestlers become wrestling coaches by writing the below (yet funny that of the 27 NBA coaches, 23 played in the NBA 3 in college, and 1 no college experience)

ChicosBailBonds
Registered User
All American

Posts: 7377



 

   Re: MU #18 team of the past decade
« Reply #118 on: May 21, 2010, 03:27:46 PM » Quote 

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Quote from: Ners on May 21, 2010, 03:10:02 PM
You can't clarify anything, because I never changed my stance.  I can't have a rational debate with a wrestler, over a basketball matter.  There's a reason you were a wrestler, and I was a basketball player.  There is a reason former basketball players NEVER become wrestling coaches, and former wrestlers never become basketball coaches.   There is a reason former basketball players become basketball coaches.  Just aas there is a reason former wrestlers become wrestling coaches.   You should have quit a lot earlier in this thread.  Your admission of being a wretler diminshes your credibility significantly. 


This is simply not true on so many levels.  Look at all the non-basketball players that have been great basketball coaches during the years.  Or players of other sports growing up that became coaches in different sports. 

Because you played, sure you have a perspective on how you think things should be done.  But other players, who were coached differently may have a completely counter view to yours, yet you both played.  Just as someone who wasn't a player can still be an outstanding coach or aficionado on a subject, including basketball

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners, I have to believe that you know that coaching in the NBA is a club and they take care of their own, especially in the last few years. 

For some reason I thought we were having a discussion on coaching at a basketball camp meant you were more likely to make an informed basketball decision than someone who didn't.  Did I miss that claim, because it sure sounded to me that your entire point in this ridiculous thread was your ability to see what others can't who haven't been able to coach.

Yes or no?

[NersEllenson]

Ners, I have to believe that you know that coaching in the NBA is a club and they take care of their own, especially in the last few years. 

For some reason I thought we were having a discussion on coaching at a basketball camp meant you were more likely to make an informed basketball decision than someone who didn't.  Did I miss that claim, because it sure sounded to me that your entire point in this ridiculous thread was your ability to see what others can't who haven't been able to coach.

Yes or no?

No Chicos, once again you misinterpret what I write to fit your own agenda.  The point I made was that as a former high school basketball player, and a very good one at that, that was asked to coach at MU's basketball camps for 2 years - my experience and understanding of the game, is highly likely to be more astute/advanced than a 3-time letter winner in wrestling.  We can look at NCAA Division 1 basketball coaches if you want - my hunch is that 75% of them played college ball, we can look to the NFL, MLB and again, my guess is 75% or more played their respective sport.. .professionally or semi-pro at minimum..

ANd..the original point of this thread...that got distorted by you, Hards was that the two NIT teams that followed the Final Four team greatly underperformed after Wade left...and that was most likely the result of poor coaching.  I gave Wade most of the credit for the Final Four..adn then got ripped for discounting the value of Diener, Novak, Jackson Chapman, etc...yet...with all but DDWaade and RJack returning...Tom Crean couldn't lead a team with 2 NBA'ers (Novak, Diener) to the NCAA...and you argued..falsely..that Diener missed games due to injury his junior year, that the conference was tougher, etc...

[Hards Alumni]

No Chicos, once again you misinterpret what I write to fit your own agenda.  The point I made was that as a former high school basketball player, and a very good one at that, that was asked to coach at MU's basketball camps for 2 years - my experience and understanding of the game, is highly likely to be more astute/advanced than a 3-time letter winner in wrestling.  We can look at NCAA Division 1 basketball coaches if you want - my hunch is that 75% of them played college ball, we can look to the NFL, MLB and again, my guess is 75% or more played their respective sport.. .professionally or semi-pro at minimum..

ANd..the original point of this thread...that got distorted by you, Hards was that the two NIT teams that followed the Final Four team greatly underperformed after Wade left...and that was most likely the result of poor coaching.  I gave Wade most of the credit for the Final Four..adn then got ripped for discounting the value of Diener, Novak, Jackson Chapman, etc...yet...with all but DDWaade and RJack returning...Tom Crean couldn't lead a team with 2 NBA'ers (Novak, Diener) to the NCAA...and you argued..falsely..that Diener missed games due to injury his junior year, that the conference was tougher, etc...

Really though.  You honestly think that 2 years of high school basketball, and coaching a camp for kids makes you a better analyst of college basketball?

Please don't act like basketball is difficult to understand.  It isn't.

[NersEllenson]

Really though.  You honestly think that 2 years of high school basketball, and coaching a camp for kids makes you a better analyst of college basketball?

Please don't act like basketball is difficult to understand.  It isn't.

Yes, I do think as a former basketball player, my insight into the game is going to be better than a former wrestlers.  Additionally, you come on here and act like the judge and jury of my points -which is really funny considering your wrestling background.  I'll look forward to the next time I hear a WWE wrestler acting as the color man during a college or NBA basketball game.  The fact you tried to argue Travis Diener was a good penetrating point guard illustrates your lack of insight.  Travis's strength was not that of a penetrator - he virtually never finished at the basket after beating his man off the dribble.  He was an excellent pick and roll point guard, great at hitting the perimeter shot off the pick.  I don't recall Travis even having a running floater in his game, and he certainly didn't have the elevation to finish at the basket.

[Hards Alumni]

Yes, I do think as a former basketball player, my insight into the game is going to be better than a former wrestlers.  Additionally, you come on here and act like the judge and jury of my points -which is really funny considering your wrestling background.  I'll look forward to the next time I hear a WWE wrestler acting as the color man during a college or NBA basketball game.  The fact you tried to argue Travis Diener was a good penetrating point guard illustrates your lack of insight.  Travis's strength was not that of a penetrator - he virtually never finished at the basket after beating his man off the dribble.  He was an excellent pick and roll point guard, great at hitting the perimeter shot off the pick.  I don't recall Travis even having a running floater in his game, and he certainly didn't have the elevation to finish at the basket.

lol, so rediculous.  I managed to graduate from MU and go to law school, but I can't understand basketball because I was a wrestler.

Just hilarious.

[🏀]

Yes, I do think as a former basketball player, my insight into the game is going to be better than a former wrestlers.  Additionally, you come on here and act like the judge and jury of my points -which is really funny considering your wrestling background.  I'll look forward to the next time I hear a WWE wrestler acting as the color man during a college or NBA basketball game.  The fact you tried to argue Travis Diener was a good penetrating point guard illustrates your lack of insight.  Travis's strength was not that of a penetrator - he virtually never finished at the basket after beating his man off the dribble.  He was an excellent pick and roll point guard, great at hitting the perimeter shot off the pick.  I don't recall Travis even having a running floater in his game, and he certainly didn't have the elevation to finish at the basket.

Travis got to the rim more than you think. He would run baseline and finish with a reverse layup all the time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

lol, so rediculous.  I managed to graduate from MU and go to law school, but I can't understand basketball because I was a wrestler.

Just hilarious.

Ners is so out to lunch on this.   Red Auerbach, who never played in the NBA, must be spinning in his grave.


Of course, Ners also fails to respond to all the crappy coaches out there that did play but still failed just as there are great coaches out there that never played.  Go figure.

[NersEllenson]

Travis got to the rim more than you think. He would run baseline and finish with a reverse layup all the time.

Running the baseline isn't the same as breaking someone down off the dribble, or being a penetrator that can penetrate and attack from the the top of the key.  Yes, it does count as getting to the basket, however.

[🏀]

Running the baseline isn't the same as breaking someone down off the dribble, or being a penetrator that can penetrate and attack from the the top of the key.  Yes, it does count as getting to the basket, however.

Agreed.

[NersEllenson]

lol, so rediculous.  I managed to graduate from MU and go to law school, but I can't understand basketball because I was a wrestler.

Just hilarious.

Not surprised to hear you are a lawyer..it explains your judge and jury mentality.  Out of curiousity, can you let me know the last time we had a wrestler as a color commentator during an MU basketball game?  Or NBA game?  Or any other level of basketball?

[Hards Alumni]

Not surprised to hear you are a lawyer..it explains your judge and jury mentality.  Out of curiousity, can you let me know the last time we had a wrestler as a color commentator during an MU basketball game?  Or NBA game?  Or any other level of basketball?

Never said I graduated, but I am glad that you jumped to another incorrect conclusion.

And who said that color commentators are knowledgable?  Len Elmore, anyone? :-P