Figuring We Ain't Done Yet

[bilsu]

Keep looking for patterns, even though there are none to find.  I know you're referring to the Roseboro situation.

If your theory is correct that Buzz is "running off" players, then what would Buzz have to gain by Roseboro leaving at a point when it left the team another man short and he couldn't get another scholarship player for 09-10?

All the Roseboro situation is a player that deceided to cut and run instead of working harder. If you listen to Buzz's recent interview he told Matthews he might want to look for a different school, because Buzz was going to work him harder than he has ever worked before. Buzz said he took it as a challenge and stepped up. Pitino told his point guard he should transfer to another school where he did not have to play defense. The result the point guard starting playing defense. Coaches challenge players all of the time. Some step up as the coach hopes the player will and others do not and they leave. There is nothing wrong with that. if you go back to the Roseboro video when he signed, he talked about how hard he was going to work. The trouble was he found out he was not willing to work as hard as Buzz expected. It was good for both sides that he left. Gardner is an over weight player. I gurantee you he will either be 20 lbs lighter by the start of season or he will be gone. It all depends on how hard he wants to work. It is easy to say you are going to work hard.
Words do always turn into action.

[butchbadger]

How do you know the kid and his parents didn't agree to this option ahead of time?? Would that be being forthright??  You bet

[GOMU1104]

Butch...why do you care so much? Pretty sad if you ask me.

[butchbadger]

I don't.  Sorry to offend. I should keep these arguments to my neighbors and the guy in the office next to me. my bad. Sean O'Soprano paid a friendly little visit and you won't get no trouble from me anymore.

[babytownfrolics]

How do you know the kid and his parents didn't agree to this option ahead of time?? Would that be being forthright??  You bet

Having conceded this non-nefarious possibility, and also the fact that you of course are not privy to what Buzz ACTUALLY COMMUNICATES to his own players, recruits and their families, how can you persist in your assumption that Buzz is "running players off?"

[GOO]

He sees UW players getting BOned and assumes that is how it works everywhere, is my guess.

[muarmy81]

Butch...why do you care so much? Pretty sad if you ask me.

Actually, I'm quite flattered that Badger fans are so concerned with our recruiting class/efforts.  Personally, I couldn't name or identify any of their incoming recruits, even if they had a giant red 'W' on their forehead. (Quite honestly I could care less about any of the activity that goes on with their program...unless it relates to a recruit de-committing and then committing to MU  )

[Golden Avalanche]

If the kid knew it was a possiblity before signing the LOI.

It's not uncommon for coaches to say something to the effect of...we want you to come here, and if everything goes as planned we should have a scholarship available.  But if it doesn't, then we'd like you to go to prep school for a year and we'll have a scholarship for you the next year.  

But if this is the case why is it hush-hush? Getting a verbal in January is a strange occurrence so it wouldn't be any stranger to be upfront about the possibility of a prep school. You don't say "they may want me to go prep" but why not "hopefully all my affairs are in order but if not I may go prep and then entertain MU after that year".

I get that it happens but it's a little shitty if Buzz keeps recruiting more kids than spots and tells the ones who aren't blue chippers that they may have to go to prep if they want in at MU. Especially if the prospect doesn't pick up nuance as a 17 year-old.

[Lennys Tap]

But if this is the case why is it hush-hush? Getting a verbal in January is a strange occurrence so it wouldn't be any stranger to be upfront about the possibility of a prep school. You don't say "they may want me to go prep" but why not "hopefully all my affairs are in order but if not I may go prep and then entertain MU after that year".

I get that it happens but it's a little crapty if Buzz keeps recruiting more kids than spots and tells the ones who aren't blue chippers that they may have to go to prep if they want in at MU. Especially if the prospect doesn't pick up nuance as a 17 year-old.

Why do you consistently come up with scenarios that put the program in the worst possible light while ignoring much more likely and innocent ones?

[bma725]

But if this is the case why is it hush-hush? Getting a verbal in January is a strange occurrence so it wouldn't be any stranger to be upfront about the possibility of a prep school. You don't say "they may want me to go prep" but why not "hopefully all my affairs are in order but if not I may go prep and then entertain MU after that year".

I get that it happens but it's a little crapty if Buzz keeps recruiting more kids than spots and tells the ones who aren't blue chippers that they may have to go to prep if they want in at MU. Especially if the prospect doesn't pick up nuance as a 17 year-old.

If you don't keep it quiet, other programs will find out.  It's already bad enough with coaches recruiting kids that have verballed to another school, if the coach believes or knows that there's already a chance the kid isn't coming, they'll be even more aggressive, and you risk losing the kid.  That's why you keep it quiet.  That's why you have a kid sign a LOI even if you know there's a greater than average chance he will go the prep route, so that no other programs can contact him and try to get him to go to their school.

This really isn't that complicated.  There's absolutely no reason to announce what the plans are, and several reasons to keep things quiet.

[Golden Avalanche]

Why do you consistently come up with scenarios that put the program in the worst possible light while ignoring much more likely and innocent ones?

Really??????

Can you fill me in and list all these scenarios I've dreamed up?

While you are at it, give me the innocent scenario that involves asking one of our recruits to go to prep school, even with qualifying grades.

[OpenLook]

If you don't keep it quiet, other programs will find out.  It's already bad enough with coaches recruiting kids that have verballed to another school, if the coach believes or knows that there's already a chance the kid isn't coming, they'll be even more aggressive, and you risk losing the kid.  That's why you keep it quiet.  That's why you have a kid sign a LOI even if you know there's a greater than average chance he will go the prep route, so that no other programs can contact him and try to get him to go to their school.

This really isn't that complicated.  There's absolutely no reason to announce what the plans are, and several reasons to keep things quiet.

That makes a ton of sense, thanks bma. To follow this logic, we likely won't hear something on who the prep school candidate is until after May 19 (the last day of spring signing) or perhaps even into the summer.

[Lennys Tap]

Really??????

Can you fill me in and list all these scenarios I've dreamed up?

While you are at it, give me the innocent scenario that involves asking one of our recruits to go to prep school, even with qualifying grades.

I think the "innocent scenario" has already been covered by BMA, Mark Miller and several others. The "cool guys" who you mock and for some reason resent.

Just one example of your negativity is accusing Buzz of preparing to "jettison" one or more of our players. Of the many possible interpretations of any scenario that involves a player not returning or a recruit going to prep school I can't conceive of one more negative than the head coach "jettisoning" him.

[PE8983]

Talking about running off players, read this...
http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2010/05/spartans_chris_allen_to_transf.html

[NersEllenson]

Why do you consistently come up with scenarios that put the program in the worst possible light while ignoring much more likely and innocent ones?

+1 Lenny - You're not the only one who noticed the same thing.

[Litehouse]

If you don't keep it quiet, other programs will find out.  It's already bad enough with coaches recruiting kids that have verballed to another school, if the coach believes or knows that there's already a chance the kid isn't coming, they'll be even more aggressive, and you risk losing the kid.  That's why you keep it quiet.  That's why you have a kid sign a LOI even if you know there's a greater than average chance he will go the prep route, so that no other programs can contact him and try to get him to go to their school.

This really isn't that complicated.  There's absolutely no reason to announce what the plans are, and several reasons to keep things quiet.

I understand why it makes sense for the school, but is there an advantage to doing this for the kid?  I can see it making sense if the kid REALLY wants to go to the school, wants to stop all the nonsense and distractions that go on with recruiting, wants to have the signing ceremony and solidify the bond with the school/coach.  I suppose it also has them all lined up if it somehow works out that there's an open spot or they unexpectedly qualify.  But are there other advantages for the kid to sign the LOI?  Can they make more visits to campus, are contact limitations with the coach lifted?

Also, does anyone think any of our recruits have been getting feelers from other coaches since this info has come out to see if they're back on the market?

[Litehouse]

While you are at it, give me the innocent scenario that involves asking one of our recruits to go to prep school, even with qualifying grades.

To me, it basically sounds like shifting around the time limitations or conditions on the various offers a school may have.  Every schools routinely has way more offers out than available spots, and they're often conditional based on other situations.  For example, a school might have an offer out to recruit A, but they also like recruit B, so they tell recruit B his offer is conditional on recruit A going somewhere else, so B can't accept the offer and sign the LOI until after everything is sorted out with recruit A.  From my understanding, that's a pretty standard situation.

Is it really all that different to tell recruit B he doesn't have to wait and can sign the LOI, but if recruit A eventually signs also, then recruit B may have to go the prep school route if he still wants to come to the school.  As long as the recruit knows what's going on up front and agrees to the conditions, there isn't much difference.

[Golden Avalanche]

I think the "innocent scenario" has already been covered by BMA, Mark Miller and several others. The "cool guys" who you mock and for some reason resent.

Just one example of your negativity is accusing Buzz of preparing to "jettison" one or more of our players. Of the many possible interpretations of any scenario that involves a player not returning or a recruit going to prep school I can't conceive of one more negative than the head coach "jettisoning" him.

Well, the cool guys deserved mocking after claiming Cothron wouldn't qualify therefore MU wouldn't take him. They also said Coleman wouldn't qualify so MU wouldn't take him (even after that "silent verbal"). They also said Kanter wouldn't qualify. All three will play college ball next year. Thus, mocking justified.

Look, the truth is this: all of the recruits have qualified grades. One of the recruits is going to prep school. I describe that as being jettisoned. You don't like the word and that's fine but when you need to lighten the load of a ship in distress you jettison some cargo. That's what is going to happen.

It seems a "last in, first out" scenario with Newbill the most likely candidate. If not him, then Smith. We will also look to sign one more prospect and when that occurs Mbao will be leaving the program. If the three prospects left on the market turn us down, then Newbill and Smith don't need to worry about their prep year.

I don't think you're upset with my thinking (because it seems mostly spot on). You're simply upset with the words I use to describe it. Perhaps if I wrote the players need to earn their spot every day, the jettison word wouldn't bother?

[Hards Alumni]

I think you are so far off base.

[Boone]

Just b/c Cothron, Coleman, etc. have signed doesn't mean they'll qualify.

[GOMU1104]

Well, the cool guys deserved mocking after claiming Cothron wouldn't qualify therefore MU wouldn't take him. They also said Coleman wouldn't qualify so MU wouldn't take him (even after that "silent verbal"). They also said Kanter wouldn't qualify. All three will play college ball next year. Thus, mocking justified.

I am not very cool, but I will address your first paragraph.  Nobody in the 2010 class has qualified yet for next year, none of our guys...nobody. So, the mocking is premature.

As for Cothron, grades were only a part of the issue with this guy...and they really weren't the reason many wanted to shy away from him. He is a knucklehead, and 99.9% of the time, knuckleheads dont change and they end up causing problems. You need not look any farther than our program the last couple of years.

Coleman had his chance to come to Marquette. He was set up in a seemingly good situation, and walked away from it.  I'm not sure yet if I will be suprised if he qualifies. It was ugly for awhile, then he ends up at Huntington Prep and looks like he could be in good shape. We will see.



Also, I am not sure where to post this, as it seems these threads are all becoming the same. Markus Kennedy, one of Villanova's 2010 recruits will be going to do a 2nd year at prep school and will join the team in 2011.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/colleges/20100420_Recruit_Markus_Kennedy_won_t_join_Villanova_basketball_until_2011.html

[bma725]

Perhaps you should actually read the thread about Cothron's grades to see what was said and who actually said it instead of what you think was said.  It wasn't anyone from this board claiming his grades were the reason he wouldn't come to MU.  It was Dave Telep of head of Scout.com and Jerry Meyer editor of Rivals.com claiming his grades were the reason Alabama backed off.  No one that you have decided to mock actually made a comment about his grades in that thread or any other thread on this board.

In fact until AnotherMU84 said it in the thread about Cothron committing to Auburn, no one had made that sort of comment, so if you want to mock some one, you should be mocking him. 

[brewcity77]

EDIT: Forget this...

[JWags85]

Well, the cool guys deserved mocking after claiming Cothron wouldn't qualify therefore MU wouldn't take him. They also said Coleman wouldn't qualify so MU wouldn't take him (even after that "silent verbal"). They also said Kanter wouldn't qualify. All three will play college ball next year. Thus, mocking justified.

Cothron-Auburn
Coleman-Louisville
Kanter-Kentucky

Everyone of those schools has significantly lower admission standards than Marquette.  I'm not trying to pull a Madison elitist tinge, but there is a difference.

[🏀]

Cothron-Auburn
Coleman-Louisville
Kanter-Kentucky

Everyone of those schools has significantly lower admission standards than Marquette.  I'm not trying to pull a Madison elitist tinge, but there is a difference.

Auburn? Are you sure on that one?