Big East Going "Pro-active"

[brewnewsman]

Some crazy ideas in here but its a positive sign that the BE isnt just going to sit back and passively let others decude its fate...
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Big East going "Pro-active''
E-mail|Link|Comments (0) Posted by Mark Blaudschun, Globe Staff April 21, 2010 07:47 PM
SCOTTSDALE, Arizona---With all the talk of expansion, the chatter around the BCS meetings being held here this week has again put the Big East under siege, with schools such as Rutgers, Pittsburgh and Syracuse possible targets of the Big Ten, if the much-talked about plans for multiple team expansion proceed.
But today the Big East made a pro active, rather than reactive move, by hiring former National Football League commissioner Paul Tagliabue on a consultant basis to provide them with contingency plans to not only survive and perhaps thrive.
"The idea was to think outside the box,'' said Big East commissioner John Marinatto. "Look at different ways of doing things. Try and see what possibilities are out there.
'I don't know what that is. It could be anything.''
Marinatto said the Tagliabue would start working immediately and all areas would be discussed--including expansion. Marinatto would not be more specific, but when asked if he could envision the Big East--which already seems maximized at 16 teams in basketball--getting bigger instead of smaller, he said, "Anything is possible.''
Marinatto has talked to and listened to Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany ever since he took over for Mike Tranghese as the Big East commissioner last summer. He has sought Delany's council, even though the Big Ten could very well target several Big East schools in the Big Ten's on-going expansion discussions. "Brilliant,'' said Marinatto yesterday during a break in the BCS annual meetings "He's like Gordon Getko and I feel like Bud Fox,'' said Marinatto referring to the Michael Douglas -Charlie Sheen characters in the movie Wall Street. I learn so much talking to him, listening to him. He' schooling me in the way I need to think in this business''
One of the things that Marinatto has picked up is to sense of purpose, especially for a first-year commissioner whose conference may again be under siege. "The idea,'' said Marinatto, "is to think stragecially about the future.''
Yesterday, Delany defused any immediate speculation on the Big Ten expansion plans by saying that no decisions had yet been made and no announcements would be forthcoming any time soon. Whether "soon''' is next week or next month is open for debate.
One thing that appears more certain is that Notre Dame, which has been the center of most expansion speculation, will maintain the status quo--as a football independent and as a member of the Big East in basketball and other non-revenue producing sports.
But there could be more. Who is to say the Big East does not react aggressively by expanding and going after other teams such as Maryland and there has even been speculation that the Big East could send out an olive branch to see if Boston College would come back into the fold. Throw in Central Florida as partner in Florida with South Florida. Add that to a core group in the Northeast centered around Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, UConn, West Virginia and you might have a football conference that might not only survive, but thrive..
Any inclusion of the ACC schools would probably only happen if expansion by a league such as the SEC dipped into the ACC for extra teams. This afternoon SEC commissioner Mike Slive said the SEC's policy would be proactive rather than reactive.
If the ACC lost schools such as Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State and Miami, Maryland and BC might be more inclined to look for save haven in the Northeast.
Critics suggest that Big East basketball at 16 teams is too big. Twenty teams?
"Who is to say we couldn't go to 20 teams in basketball, but not have one 20 team league, but a league with four or pods of four or five teams, you have to think strategic alliances. What strategic alliances could we create'' said Marinatto. "Why couldn't we do something with Notre Dame in football, where they aren't a member, but they schedule groups of teams (which is already being done) in our conference. Why couldn't we do more with television and a Big East television network (similar to the Big Ten's highly successful) "You have t
""We need a new way of thinking,'' said Marinatto. "Strategic thinking. We need to be pro-active rather than reactive and develop our assets. We are representative in 25 percent of the nation's households. Paul's theory is think long term, think over the horizon. Out of the box thinking Jim is always saying to me, you have to think differently. So hopefully Paul is going to help us think differently.'''
Marinatto said that making Big East football stronger is priority." We do need to do that because we have the Eastern footprint of the country,'' said Marinatto. "But we also need quality.''
Teams such as Maryland and Boston College fall in that Eastern footprint. Whether they can be pried way from the ACC is an iffy question. Ideally, the Big East would also love to have Penn State back.
Marinatto says he is looking only at a big picture of the future, with no specifics-yet--but a master plan of not only surviving, but thriving. "Strategically thinking, outside of the box,'' said Marinatto, who has Notre Dame as part of his inventory in many areas.
With Delany saying things are on hold, but still could move forward and SEC taking a "pro-active'' look at the future, the movement for change in college football seems to be beginning.
For the Big East, the hiring of Tagliabue was the first move. "The first of many steps over the next several months that we need to make,'' said Marinatto, who may have fired the first shot in a long and drastic change in the structure of college athletics.''

[goodgreatgrand]

Thinking 'outside the box' is great; it allows one to communicate any idea out loud without being called a nut job.

So here it goes:

Baltimore is arguably the best city in the country for bball recruiting right now (and for the past 5 years or so). Maryland is a perfect fit for the BE. Football and basketball will fit in just fine. Throw in their very good LAX team and the BE just added another team to a new, up-and-coming program that WILL generate revenue in the very near future.

Kick ND out the door. Either join as a full member (it will never happen) or find another conference for the "rest" of your teams. This will virtually make ND join the B10....and maybe, just maybe, the B10 stops at 12 teams. Sigh of relief.

If the likes of Miami or FSU or whomever get poached from the ACC, convince BC to jump ship and come back. There is still a lot of bad blood (both Calhoun and Boeheim said they would never schedule BC as a non-conference opponent after they left). If BC comes back, the rivalries explode and its must-see tv (ratings).

Invite UCF. Cant hurt.

Adding these schools would take football schools up to 11 (not bad. The B10 managed to do alright with 11).

Dropping ND and adding 3 would take the bball conference up to 18. It's too many but a great problem to have relative to all of the doomsday scenarios. Maybe the conference just splits in half on the bball side and is organized based on rivalries.

[bamamarquettefan]

This looks good.  I know the conferences don't release payouts etc., but based on guesses and probably increases since some 2007 tax releases, it seems the guess is that the payouts are something like this:

Big 10   $22.0
SEC   $13.0
ACC   $11.5
Pac10   $10.0
Big 12   $9.5
Big East   $4.5

I realize ours are weird because of the non-football schools, but I just wonder if these numbers are anywhere near close whether or not we could pull off a Maryland or Boston College, or Big 12 schools, but I like the direction.

[goodgreatgrand]

And since this is all about football and money, if BC, UCF and Maryland join we'll have a bigger pot than we do now. Let's say the financial model would suggest the ACC teams that join would make slightly less than they currently do. If these schools join and it means the BE is "saved," maybe Marinatto and Tagliabue come up with a creative means of distributing the wealth. If it means the bball only schools have to take a slight paycut, so what? Maybe UCF gets incremental raises over a number of years before they get equal pay. Whoever said every team has to draw the same amount of money? Sure, it would be nice and maybe it can happen over time (as the BE re-brands itself and becomes more relevant and competitive in football), but if pay-cuts and revenue sharing schedules save the BE then there really shouldnt be an argument.

[GGGG]

I don't know where you are getting your figures, but the SEC makes just about what the Big 10 makes...maybe a tad bit more.  The Big 12 make a lot more than you indicate, but it is also unbalanced.  ie, Texas makes much more than Iowa State.

But anyway, being proactive isn't going to help if the B10 comes calling.  The $22M is just too good to pass up.

[chapman]

Kick ND out the door. Either join as a full member (it will never happen) or find another conference for the "rest" of your teams. This will virtually make ND join the B10....and maybe, just maybe, the B10 stops at 12 teams. Sigh of relief.

Big 10   $22.0
SEC   $13.0
ACC   $11.5
Pac10   $10.0
Big 12   $9.5
Big East   $4.5

Two understated things...yes, it's skewed because of non-football numbers.  But do you think the Big Ten wants to pry away some of the Big East football programs if it adds Notre Dame, which combined with a championship game is a home run move?  I just don't see it.  If that average payout is even in the ballpark of accuracy, it'll be bumped up a huge chunk, then what?  Are Rutgers, Pitt, or Missouri going to increase it enough to warrant bringing them in?  Maybe, if you want to bank on the television markets becoming instantly infatuated with Big Ten sports, something that is pretty much a turn off for the east coast.  Sure there are a ton of schools who would love the invite, but a Big Ten that strong would struggle to get its members excited about adding uncertainty if they make bank with ND.

[goodgreatgrand]

Two understated things...yes, it's skewed because of non-football numbers.  But do you think the Big Ten wants to pry away some of the Big East football programs if it adds Notre Dame, which combined with a championship game is a home run move?  I just don't see it.  If that average payout is even in the ballpark of accuracy, it'll be bumped up a huge chunk, then what?  Are Rutgers, Pitt, or Missouri going to increase it enough to warrant bringing them in?  Maybe, if you want to bank on the television markets becoming instantly infatuated with Big Ten sports, something that is pretty much a turn off for the east coast.  Sure there are a ton of schools who would love the invite, but a Big Ten that strong would struggle to get its members excited about adding uncertainty if they make bank with ND.

Frank the Tank's blog has an incredible evaluation of the money, tv coverage, etc that the B10 currently makes/has.

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/the-value-of-expansion-candidates-to-the-big-ten-network/

[Big Papi]

The Big East's football and basketball contract with ESPN runs through 2013-2014.  Can the Big East create their own network or force ESPN to create a Big East channel?  If the Big 10 Network can generate these huge revenues, why can't the Big East.  We are in bigger markets and if you add 4 decent football schools, the revenue could really sky rocket. 

[Hards Alumni]

The Big East's football and basketball contract with ESPN runs through 2013-2014.  Can the Big East create their own network or force ESPN to create a Big East channel?  If the Big 10 Network can generate these huge revenues, why can't the Big East.  We are in bigger markets and if you add 4 decent football schools, the revenue could really sky rocket. 

Two words:

State Schools.

Big Ten has em, Big East doesn't (well at least not en masse like the B10)

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

I don't know where you are getting your figures, but the SEC makes just about what the Big 10 makes...maybe a tad bit more.  The Big 12 make a lot more than you indicate, but it is also unbalanced.  ie, Texas makes much more than Iowa State.

But anyway, being proactive isn't going to help if the B10 comes calling.  The $22M is just too good to pass up.

However, if the BE forces NDs hand they could be actually acting in unison with the big ten.  Forcing ND to actually join the big ten which is what they originally wanted.  Maybe this would stop the expansion at 12 and thus benefit the Big East.  Puts all the pressure on ND and not the Big East.

[Canadian Dimes]

First of all... If the Big East could add Maryland, UCF and Maybe say a memphis that would be outstanding.  Why BC a Northeastern actholic school left to join a conference of southern state schools i will never understand.  I think BC alums are probbably to proud to admit it was a dumb move but probably secretly pine for the old matchups with uconn, suracuse, gergetown and Nova.  Add those 4 teams and go with two pods of 10.

secondly, the BE should simply force ND's hand and tell them get in with football or get out with every thing else.  call their bluff.  they are sucking on the BE tit with all there Olympic sports and partaking in a tremendous olympic sport confernce.  Kick them the f out and let them go play those sports in the Big Ten and see how their Alum react and what it would do to those sports to relegate them to a Midwestern farm league

[GGGG]

However, if the BE forces NDs hand they could be actually acting in unison with the big ten.  Forcing ND to actually join the big ten which is what they originally wanted.  Maybe this would stop the expansion at 12 and thus benefit the Big East.  Puts all the pressure on ND and not the Big East.

Interestingly, schools like Rutgers probably don't want to do that.  They'd rather be in the B10.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

Interestingly, schools like Rutgers probably don't want to do that.  They'd rather be in the B10.

Not so sure Rutgers would have a big say in this.(any at all really)  Especially if the BE feels they are backed into a corner....

[GGGG]

The Big East's football and basketball contract with ESPN runs through 2013-2014.  Can the Big East create their own network or force ESPN to create a Big East channel?  If the Big 10 Network can generate these huge revenues, why can't the Big East.  We are in bigger markets and if you add 4 decent football schools, the revenue could really sky rocket. 

As Hards pointed out, the B10 (and SEC and B12) have large, public universities whose fans extend well beyond their alumni base.  They can fill 100,000+ seat stadiums regularly and draw huge television numbers.  Outside of West Virginia (and maybe UConn), the BE really doesn't have schools with that type of fan base.  (And WV is a pretty small state.)

[brewcity77]

I like the idea of pairing up with ESPN to create maybe ESPN E, a Big East network. It's true that we don't have state schools, but we do have schools in a lot of the top 50 media markets in the country:

1) New York: St. John's
3) Chicago: DePaul
4) Philadelphia: Villanova
8) Washington DC: Georgetown
12) Tampa: South Florida
22) Pittsburgh: Pitt
28) Hartford & New Haven: UConn
33) Milwaukee: Marquette
34) Cincinnati: Cincinatti
50) Louisville: Louisville

As far as our other current member schools, Seton Hall and Rutgers give us a hold on New Jersey, Notre Dame brings in a huge viewership, West Virginia is a state school, Providence is just outside the top 50 (53), and Syracuse is the dominant media team in the state of New York outside the city. If we could regain Boston College, that would give us a presence in 5 of the top 8 media markets.

Startup costs would be heavily alleviated by joining the ESPN family of networks. They have the materials, and could probably provide a lot of the personnel. The drawback to that is sharing the profits with The Worldwide Leader, so we couldn't play quite on level terms with the Big 10, but we would be a step ahead of all the other conferences. And thinking back to my worst case scenario thread the other day, there are a lot of top 50 media markets we could target with other teams. The aforementioned Boston College (5), Akron would bring Cleveland (16), UCF brings Orlando (20), Maryland brings Baltimore (24), Memphis brings Memphis (44)...those teams may not all jump to join us, but even some of the lesser quality teams would help make a television network more appealing.

Proactive is the right choice, and if we are aggressive, we can not only survive, but thrive.

[goodgreatgrand]

As Hards pointed out, the B10 (and SEC and B12) have large, public universities whose fans extend well beyond their alumni base.  They can fill 100,000+ seat stadiums regularly and draw huge television numbers.  Outside of West Virginia (and maybe UConn), the BE really doesn't have schools with that type of fan base.  (And WV is a pretty small state.)

I dont think UConn has what the B10 wants. Their fball stadium is way off campus and is relatively small (however, it was engineered such that it can be expanded). They have no history whatsoever. Academics are so-so but they are a research-oriented university despite not being a member of the AAU (something that will change in a short time). They bring tv market potential but cant deliver Boston like BC can and cant deliver NYC like Rutgers can (at least to the degree that they think they can).

If the B10 wants to toy with ND and the BE, I have read in several places that the easiest way for them to do this is to add Syracuse first. This would pull away a charter member with the most history in fball and bball. With Syracuse gone, most rivalries die with the exception of the backyard brawl (and with WV going somewhere, that rivarly will be OOC at some point as well). 

[GGGG]

Brew, five of those markets are bball only markets.  Tell me, if you have the BE Network next to the B10 Network in Milwaukee or Chicago, what channel do you think most sets will be turned to on a Saturday afternoon in the fall?  The Louisville v. UConn game, or the UW v. Illinois game?  The vast majority of broadcast revenue is based on football. 

Proactivity is nice, but you can only go so far with the assets you have.

[MarquetteDano]

I like the idea of pairing up with ESPN to create maybe ESPN E, a Big East network. It's true that we don't have state schools, but we do have schools in a lot of the top 50 media markets in the country:

1) New York: St. John's
3) Chicago: DePaul
4) Philadelphia: Villanova
8) Washington DC: Georgetown
12) Tampa: South Florida

Just keep in mind that the above may be Top 12 markets but there is humongous competitors for viewers eyes.  As it has been talked about around here, outside of St. John's being a Top 5 team, New York is a pro sports town that rarely follows college (unless it is their alma mater which for many is not St. John's).  Chicago is similar.  Nova is a pretty small school and has the "Big 5" competing for viewership.  D.C. is not really a sports town at all so its media market doesn't matter as much.  And Tampa has Canadian and Midwestern transplants who could give a crap about USF.

[LON]

College football is such a sub-par product (especially the Big Ten), add ND and it could actually get worse.

/nothing to add to these expansion topics, just can't resist taking shots at the Big Ten and college football in general

[brewcity77]

And recognizing all that is why we would want to have ESPN as a partner in creating a Big East network. I don't think there's enough focus, even in substantial media markets, for the conference to go it alone. But if they can add 4 legitimate football schools, with or without Notre Dame, and add a conference championship game in football, they won't overcome the Big Ten by any stretch, but can increase viewership there. Add in an absolutely dominant basketball conference and it will be a viable station. I'm not saying we can offer what the Big Ten could thanks to the state schools, but we could at least do enough to stay on air and offer significantly more dollars than we give today.

[bilsu]

Being a Marquette fan I really do not care about Big East football. I know it has never been done before, but is there a rule about being in one conference for football and a different conference for basketball? Other than that I am in favor of giving the Big 10 Rutgers. Heck give them Rutgers for free if they leave the rest of the Big East alone.

[Tigidal]

As a DC resident, I'd love to have Maryland in the BE fold, but think there'd be some upset area football fans... The local rivalries between UM, UVA, and VT are pretty solid.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Just keep in mind that the above may be Top 12 markets but there is humongous competitors for viewers eyes.  As it has been talked about around here, outside of St. John's being a Top 5 team, New York is a pro sports town that rarely follows college (unless it is their alma mater which for many is not St. John's).  Chicago is similar.  Nova is a pretty small school and has the "Big 5" competing for viewership.  D.C. is not really a sports town at all so its media market doesn't matter as much.  And Tampa has Canadian and Midwestern transplants who could give a crap about USF.

FWIW - Mike Francesca of WFAN in the past has said NYC's college football team is Notre Dame.

[bamamarquettefan]

On the question on the figures, i believe the $22 million figure has been cited as the one reason the Big 10 might NOT want to add more than one team.  I was contacted by a couple of people around SEC programs after this post saying that due to their new TV contract they believe the payout will get up to $17 milllion, but that still leaves them 2nd to the Big 10 by $5 million.  A strong 2nd, and I live in SEC country where most are stunned they aren't 10 times bigger than anyone else, but clearly in 2nd.

[77ncaachamps]

Two words:

State Schools.

Big Ten has em, Big East doesn't (well at least not en masse like the B10)

DING DING DING

Same with SEC, BIG 12, and PAC-10.

Coincidentally, also big FB schools.