Koshwal Gone

[T-Bone]

No surprise.
http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=15600&ATCLID=204928318

[lab_warrior]

But WHY?!  With Purnell there, the sky's the limit at DePaul!

[brewcity77]

Honestly, it is a bit sad to see how far DePaul has fallen. I always want us to be better than our rivals, but I don't want our rivals to become irrelevant or it makes the rivalry meaningless, much like how the fall of the Bears in the 1990s killed their rivalry with the Packers. Now the Packers care more about Vikings games, even though historically the more important rival is the one to the south.

Same with DePaul, if they continue their slide by losing their best players, it will diminish the importance of Marquette/DePaul, which for the most part has fallen by the wayside. I honestly hope Oliver Purnell can at least bring back a sense of respectability to DePaul. I don't expect them ever to be a perennial top 25, but at least punching their weight in the BE and playing regularly in postseason tournaments.

[TallTitan34]

Perosnally, I'm fine with DePaul being a doormat.  Give recruits an easy decesion.

[Dawson Rental]

But WHY?!  With Purnell there, the sky's the limit at DePaul!

Clearly, he didn't want to be recruited over.

[Dawson Rental]

Honestly, it is a bit sad to see how far DePaul has fallen. I always want us to be better than our rivals, but I don't want our rivals to become irrelevant or it makes the rivalry meaningless, much like how the fall of the Bears in the 1990s killed their rivalry with the Packers. Now the Packers care more about Vikings games, even though historically the more important rival is the one to the south.

Same with DePaul, if they continue their slide by losing their best players, it will diminish the importance of Marquette/DePaul, which for the most part has fallen by the wayside. I honestly hope Oliver Purnell can at least bring back a sense of respectability to DePaul. I don't expect them ever to be a perennial top 25, but at least punching their weight in the BE and playing regularly in postseason tournaments.

DePaul is the Big East's most underutilized (potential) asset.  I think that the DePaul administration now realizes the need to improve the program, the more important question is do they have a clue as to how to do it.  We'll see.

[BrewCity83]

I would definitely consider DePaul a sleeping giant.

[Marquette84]

Honestly, it is a bit sad to see how far DePaul has fallen. I always want us to be better than our rivals, but I don't want our rivals to become irrelevant or it makes the rivalry meaningless, much like how the fall of the Bears in the 1990s killed their rivalry with the Packers. Now the Packers care more about Vikings games, even though historically the more important rival is the one to the south.

Same with DePaul, if they continue their slide by losing their best players, it will diminish the importance of Marquette/DePaul, which for the most part has fallen by the wayside. I honestly hope Oliver Purnell can at least bring back a sense of respectability to DePaul. I don't expect them ever to be a perennial top 25, but at least punching their weight in the BE and playing regularly in postseason tournaments.

I'm curious as to whether Syracuse, UConn or Georgetown fans are as concerned about the demise of St. Johns, Seton Hall or Providence as some of our fans seem to be about DePaul.

DePaul is the Big East's most underutilized (potential) asset.  I think that the DePaul administration now realizes the need to improve the program, the more important question is do they have a clue as to how to do it.  We'll see.

Doubtful.

The NYC area teams have been as irrelevant in Big East Basketball for almost as long as DePaul has been lousy in Chicago.  St. Johns, Rutgers and Seton Hall are a long time removed from their glory days, yet NYC in general is still highly interested in the Big East.

Similarly, Chicago's two local entries in the Big Ten--Northwestern and the University of Chicago--haven't been relevant in years.  U of C left the conference in the 40's, Northwestern has never been relevant in basketball, and has been only marginally relevant in football over the years.  Yet Chicago is a huge Big Ten town.  

If Notre Dame hasn't generated any interest for the Big East, I doubt DePaul's success in the Big East would do anything to alter that balance.

[muarmy81]

Much like the Packer's stellar performance in the 80's?

[Dawson Rental]

Marquette84,

I'd be interested to know if you've ever lived in Chicago.  DePaul was a very big deal in Chicago when they were a top program in their pre Big East days.  If they got (back) to a level of say Georgetown or Villanova, Chicago would definitely rally around them and that would create a great deal of interest in the Big East.

Notre Dame has too small an alumni base in Chicago, is too distant, and hasn't had the kind of success that would allow it to have the same impact.

[GGGG]

Marquette84,

I'd be interested to know if you've ever lived in Chicago.  DePaul was a very big deal in Chicago when they were a top program in their pre Big East days.  If they got (back) to a level of say Georgetown or Villanova, Chicago would definitely rally around them and that would create a great deal of interest in the Big East.

Notre Dame has too small an alumni base in Chicago, is too distant, and hasn't had the kind of success that would allow it to have the same impact.

I don't know if I agree with that.  Chicago and sports are so much different now.  The Bulls have a much larger following then they did when DePaul was good.  (In fact, DePaul's demise began right about when MJ joined the team.) 

Chicago is a pro sports town.

[brewcity77]

Much like the Packer's stellar performance in the 80's?

The difference is that the games were still mostly competitive. The Packers may not have been a top team, but they were always giving their all when they played the Bears. In the 1990s, the Bears pretty much rolled over whenever #4 stepped on the field.

But regardless, I really LittleMurs hits the nail on the head. DePaul could be huge for the Big East. A quality DePaul team with a few NCAA appearances, along with continued success here would go a long way to helping make the Midwest a Big East territory. Of course it would still primarily be Big Ten and Big 12 country, but get two quality teams there and it would be a major inroad.

EDIT: And seeing Sultan's post, yes, Chicago places pro sports first and always will, but if any college basketball team has shown the ability to capture that city, it's certainly DePaul. Notre Dame, Northwestern, and UIC don't come close.

[groove]

Funny, the University of Chicago still has more varsity sports big ten titles than Purdue or Northwestern even though they haven't competed in the conference for more than 60 years.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

When DePaul was good, every single game was broadcast on WGN TV. I'd say if they got consistently good, they could very well experience a Blackhawks like resurgence. You can't buy a Hawks ticket these days...you couldn't give them away a couple years ago.

[mu-rara]

I don't know if I agree with that.  Chicago and sports are so much different now.  The Bulls have a much larger following then they did when DePaul was good.  (In fact, DePaul's demise began right about when MJ joined the team.) 

Chicago is a pro sports town.

Chicago is a frontrunnners town.  The fans follow the flavor of the day.  Bears win, sellout.  Bears suck...40,000 fans masquerade as empty seats (in old Soldier Field)  Same with the Hawks.  A few years ago they were near the bottom in attendance, now thay are 1st.

Trust me, if DePaul puts a program together, the fans will show.

[mugrad99]

Marquette84,

I'd be interested to know if you've ever lived in Chicago.  DePaul was a very big deal in Chicago when they were a top program in their pre Big East days.  If they got (back) to a level of say Georgetown or Villanova, Chicago would definitely rally around them and that would create a great deal of interest in the Big East.

Notre Dame has too small an alumni base in Chicagoalums are d-bags., is too distant, and hasn't had the kind of success that would allow it to have the same impact

In my opinion, Chicago sports fans loyalties are to:
1) pro teams
2) the individual fans alma mater
3) if you did not go to college=Notre Dame Football

[d6]

As a Chicagoan, I'm not sure I agree with all the points made in this thread.  the idea that Notre Dame has too small an alumni base strikes me as a bit off.  Not only do they have a solid alumni base, the city is rife with fans that have latched on to Notre Dame and the Chicago Tribune helps foment that interest as a mouthpiece for the University.

As for the Bears, I cannot recall any time when there were 40,000 empty seats at Soldier Field.

And, as far as the Blackhawks go, it's true that there was a time when Blackhawk tickets were impossible to get (at the Old Stadium) and then an extended period where you couldn't give the tickets away.  But that had less to do with Chicago being a "frontrunners" town and more to do with the fact that Bill Wirtz drove the franchise into oblivion by being a cheap, fan-unfriendly, no-tv showing, pathetic owner.  Rocky Wirtz has turned the thing around by spending money, televising ALL games, and inviting stars like Stan Mikita and Bobby Hull back into the fold. That helps explain why there was a period when the Blackhawks drew nobody and the post-Jordan, horrible Bulls still drew a crowd.  I may be completely wrong, but that's been my impression over the years.

[augoman]

mu84, you miss the point by making statements about UofC and NU that are erroneous.  As pointed out, UofC has tons of big ten titles although absent for 60 years- which is when Northwestern joined.  Northwestern might have more NCAA titles than UW, but not in mens bball and ftball. I know they have women's teams that have set NCAA records for the most consecutive titles.  I also enjoy watching Northwestern's football team beat UW and finish higher in the conference with great regularity.  I guess your definition of "irrelevance" is in question.

[Marquette84]

Marquette84,

I'd be interested to know if you've ever lived in Chicago.  DePaul was a very big deal in Chicago when they were a top program in their pre Big East days.  If they got (back) to a level of say Georgetown or Villanova, Chicago would definitely rally around them and that would create a great deal of interest in the Big East.

Notre Dame has too small an alumni base in Chicago, is too distant, and hasn't had the kind of success that would allow it to have the same impact.

Yes.  My guess is that you weren't living in Chicago at the time.

During the DePaul heyday (1978 to 1982). . .

The Cubs averaged between 10672 (1980) and 20,353 (1978)
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cubsatte.shtml

The WhiteSox no better ranging from 14,819 (1980) to 18523 (1978)
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/wsoxatte.shtml

The Bulls averaged under 10,000 per game
http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=chi&lg=n

The Bears needed help to avoid blackouts.

Illinois hadn't been to the NCAA (or even the NIT!!!) between 1963 and 1980.

DePaul was popular because they were about the only winner in the city.


Consider what has changed.

1.  PSLs & SkyBoxes.  Nobody is going to put their sporting dollar into DePaul's coffers.  They are financially committed to the pro franchises.
2.  Huge $$$ to buy each of the teams. Sox were sold.  Cubs were sold.  Bulls were sold. Once the big money came in, the owners were committed to making moves to keep teams competitive and houses full.
3.  Gentrification.  When DePaul was popular, the Horizon was safe and easy to get to.  Lakeview was dicey at best, and the west and south sides were bordering on war zones.  People took clients to DePaul for entertainment because getting to any other sporting venue was less than impressive.
4.  Networks.  WGN is part of the CW--they no longer need help filling their programming time. 
5.  Winning.  Every other major franchise has been a winner.  Yes they've had ups and downs, but we don't see the 1963 to 1980 drought like the Bulls and Illini suffered.
6.  Ray Meyer is gone.  People liked to support DePaul because they felt good about Ray Meyer.  Think anyone has had the warm fuzzies for Joey?  Fat Pat?  Leitao?  Purnell? 

Finally, at one time Loyola was similarly popular--even winning a national championship.  Do you think that Chicago would rally around them again?

DePauls time has come and gone. 

[Marquette84]

mu84, you miss the point by making statements about UofC and NU that are erroneous.  As pointed out, UofC has tons of big ten titles although absent for 60 years- which is when Northwestern joined.  Northwestern might have more NCAA titles than UW, but not in mens bball and ftball. I know they have women's teams that have set NCAA records for the most consecutive titles.  I also enjoy watching Northwestern's football team beat UW and finish higher in the conference with great regularity.  I guess your definition of "irrelevance" is in question.

How much press does the Northwestern Women's Knitting Club or Tiddly Winks national championship get?

The Big Ten Mens Football and Mens Basketball coverage dominates sports pages in Chicago--significantly ahead of any other local college in any other sport. 

And that's not because NU's women's teams have been playing well or nostalgia for UofC's 60+ year old championships.  Hell, most Chicagoans don't even realize UofC was in the Big Ten.

Chicago is Big Ten town--and its that way without a relevant local team.  DePaul's success isn't going to change that

[Pakuni]

Chicago is a frontrunnners town.  The fans follow the flavor of the day. 

Must be why the Cubs have had so much trouble filling up Wrigley over the last 25 years.

Seriously, I think most pro sports fans are this way with very few teams immune to the vagaries of fan interest. The Cubs are one of these teams. So are the Bears (never, ever seen 40,000 empty seats in Soldier Field, old or new.)

DePaul will do well in drawing fan interest if they have some consistent on-court success.

And then Marquette will plunge to Loyola-level depths. Because Marquette can't win unless DePaul is terrible.

[Dawson Rental]

mu84, you miss the point by making statements about UofC and NU that are erroneous.  As pointed out, UofC has tons of big ten titles although absent for 60 years- which is when Northwestern joined.  Northwestern might have more NCAA titles than UW, but not in mens bball and ftball. I know they have women's teams that have set NCAA records for the most consecutive titles.  I also enjoy watching Northwestern's football team beat UW and finish higher in the conference with great regularity.  I guess your definition of "irrelevance" is in question.

Northwestern was a founding member of the Big Ten in 1896.

Funny, the University of Chicago still has more varsity sports big ten titles than Purdue or Northwestern even though they haven't competed in the conference for more than 60 years.

University of Chicago also has more Big Ten titles than Penn State has been able to garner in their 17 or so years.

[sailwi]

What people fail to recognize with DU is back in the day when all of their games were on WGN, WGN was only one of two superstations (the other TBS with Atlanta Braves games) that were on every cable network.  Today with TV rights, etc you will never have a similar situation plus DU like MU was an independent.

A lot of things have changed since the early 80's with the DU program and the worst hit was the divorce of the PSL by Sonny Landon Cox after the Teddy Grubbs incident.  DU was unfairly blackballed by Sonny and the other PSL coaches, Teddy had mental health issues and it wasn't DU's fault and they did everything they could to help him.  Joey did not tell Teddy to expose himself in the DU library.

[Dawson Rental]

How much press does the Northwestern Women's Knitting Club or Tiddly Winks national championship get?

The Big Ten Mens Football and Mens Basketball coverage dominates sports pages in Chicago--significantly ahead of any other local college in any other sport. 

And that's not because NU's women's teams have been playing well or nostalgia for UofC's 60+ year old championships.  Hell, most Chicagoans don't even realize UofC was in the Big Ten.

Chicago is Big Ten town--and its that way without a relevant local team.  DePaul's success isn't going to change that

"Chicago is Big Ten town--and its that way without a relevant local team.  DePaul's success isn't going to change that"

Well, if DePaul was successful, it would certainly change the fact that there isn't a relevant local team.
In its heyday, DePaul got plenty of press attention, and I believe that should they get their act together, they will again.

[marquette99]

I don't want top chicago players to have depaul as a legit option.  With our alumni base there we can be top of mind there, buzz gets us texas, and the big east gives us new york.  Keep buzz, stay in big east, and depaul stays down and the future is bright.