What Would It Mean...

[4everwarriors]

to MU's basketball program and Buzz if UW-Green Bay was playing for the NCAA Championship on Monday night?

Obviously, UWGB would be looked on as the preeminent program in the state. Would instate recruits see the young, cool, calm, and collected coach, as someone they wanted to play for and therefore, make it more difficult to keep homegrown talent? How 'bout Buzz? Would he be on the hot seat or begin to feel he can't take MU any farther? Man, a Horizon League team passing up a big time conference team right in your own state, go figure.

Happy Easter, Tom Crean.

[Jacks DC]

Hard to believe IU is the fourth best program in Indiana.

[Tugg Speedman]

Hard to believe IU is the fourth best program in Indiana.

You're sure that IU is better than Indiana State?

[schubert33]

Or better then IUPUI and IPFW??

[willie warrior]

Even more importantly:
If a mid major like Butler, with a group of unknown kids can get this far (and may win the whole damn thing), then there is no excuse for our expectations to be low. All you need is good coaching, good camaraderie, some talent(even if not big name), and some luck.

We should expect similar results from our program--and no I am not saying Final 4 every year, but at least compete for regular season confernce Championship and Sweet 16 appearances. After all, we have a bigger budget, better confernce to recruit to and a greater recruiting base.

[NotAnAlum]

I really don't think it would have any of the effects you seem to feel it would.  There may be some bragging rights and some local fans may catch some grief but in the overall scheme of things it won't have much effect on local schools.  It solidifies Bulters position as "the Gonzaga of the East" and they will get the edge on kids that might otherwise go to other mid majors BUT a kid who could go to NC or Kentucky is not going to suddenly consider Butler.  For instance someone like the Tokoto would not consider Butler because of this run.  Regardless of what happens Bulter will play at UWM and Youngstown state next year and those games won't be on national TV.  The top talent wants that exposure and that won't change much.
It proves that you don't have to be a state school from a big conference to win the title and in my opinion that is good for College Basketball and schools like MU.

[Tugg Speedman]

Or better then IUPUI and IPFW??

By this measure IU was barely the 8th best team in the state of Indiana this year.  The good news is they have only direction to go.

Last RPI (March 14 http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html )

Butler = 12
Purdue = 16
ND = 49
IUPUI = 83
Indiana State = 88
Valpo = 186
Ball State = 220
IU = 222
IPFW = 224

[Tugg Speedman]

I really don't think it would have any of the effects you seem to feel it would.  There may be some bragging rights and some local fans may catch some grief but in the overall scheme of things it won't have much effect on local schools.  It solidifies Bulters position as "the Gonzaga of the East" and they will get the edge on kids that might otherwise go to other mid majors BUT a kid who could go to NC or Kentucky is not going to suddenly consider Butler.  For instance someone like the Tokoto would not consider Butler because of this run.  Regardless of what happens Bulter will play at UWM and Youngstown state next year and those games won't be on national TV.  The top talent wants that exposure and that won't change much.
It proves that you don't have to be a state school from a big conference to win the title and in my opinion that is good for College Basketball and schools like MU.

What if it was that other Horizon league team in the finals ... UWM.  How would that change things?

[Marquette84]

to MU's basketball program and Buzz if UW-Green Bay was playing for the NCAA Championship on Monday night?

Obviously, UWGB would be looked on as the preeminent program in the state. Would instate recruits see the young, cool, calm, and collected coach, as someone they wanted to play for and therefore, make it more difficult to keep homegrown talent? How 'bout Buzz? Would he be on the hot seat or begin to feel he can't take MU any farther? Man, a Horizon League team passing up a big time conference team right in your own state, go figure.

Happy Easter, Tom Crean.

The irony of your post is that the year before Tom Crean arrived, UWGB actually was ranked ahead of us.

1999 RPI:
123. Wisc.-Gr. Bay     18  11  .4777 178  .5176
124. Memphis           13  15  .5374  81  .5172
125. Maine             18   9  .4597 219  .5166
126. N. Arizona        18   8  .4476 252  .5163
127. San Diego         16   9  .4615 216  .5150
128. Niagara           17  12  .4919 149  .5150
129. Marquette         14  15  .5151 115  .5123

Keep in mind that this masks the fact that our SOS was boosted by a tougher schedule (MU's SOS was 115 compared to UWGB's rank of 178)

So, thank you, Tom Crean.

[Nukem2]

The irony of your post is that the year before Tom Crean arrived, UWGB actually was ranked ahead of us.

1999 RPI:
123. Wisc.-Gr. Bay     18  11  .4777 178  .5176
124. Memphis           13  15  .5374  81  .5172
125. Maine             18   9  .4597 219  .5166
126. N. Arizona        18   8  .4476 252  .5163
127. San Diego         16   9  .4615 216  .5150
128. Niagara           17  12  .4919 149  .5150
129. Marquette         14  15  .5151 115  .5123

Keep in mind that this masks the fact that our SOS was boosted by a tougher schedule (MU's SOS was 115 compared to UWGB's rank of 178)

So, thank you, Tom Crean.

Agreed.  We were also facing the future of a Krunti Hester era as well.  Guess posters like PRN and 4everwarriors conveniently forget about those thongs whilst they bash TC.

[babytownfrolics]

Even more importantly:
If a mid major like Butler, with a group of unknown kids can get this far (and may win the whole damn thing), then there is no excuse for our expectations to be low. All you need is good coaching, good camaraderie, some talent(even if not big name), and some luck.

We should expect similar results from our program--and no I am not saying Final 4 every year, but at least compete for regular season confernce Championship and Sweet 16 appearances. After all, we have a bigger budget, better confernce to recruit to and a greater recruiting base.

But the fact that we're in a major conference makes it pretty hard to "expect" to compete for a conference championship every single year.  Lots more competition than the Horizon League.

[GGGG]

By this measure IU was barely the 8th best team in the state of Indiana this year.  The good news is they have only direction to go.

Last RPI (March 14 http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html )

Butler = 12
Purdue = 16
ND = 49
IUPUI = 83
Indiana State = 88
Valpo = 186
Ball State = 220
IU = 222
IPFW = 224

Evansville=250

[DawsonCreekFillanderer]

So, thank you, Tom Crean.

Yes, and thank you Tom Crean for leaving. How's that dream job working out for ya, big timer?

[flash]

I really don't expect butler's success to affect IU's recruiting.  Most top players want exposure, and they will get much more at IU than at Butler

[avid1010]

Even more importantly:
If a mid major like Butler, with a group of unknown kids can get this far (and may win the whole damn thing), then there is no excuse for our expectations to be low. All you need is good coaching, good camaraderie, some talent(even if not big name), and some luck.

We should expect similar results from our program--and no I am not saying Final 4 every year, but at least compete for regular season confernce Championship and Sweet 16 appearances. After all, we have a bigger budget, better confernce to recruit to and a greater recruiting base.

So what team shouldn't expect to see the same success as Butler or as you put...regular season conference championships and sweet 16 appearances?  Only 16 teams can do that...

[mu-rara]

How many Butler players were IU commits?

[bilsu]

Butler does not get the respect that it deserves. I am pretty sure that if you compare MU's overall record to Butlers over the last 10-15 years you will find that Butler has won significantly more games than MU.  It really is not fare to Butler consider UW Green Bay their equal. UW Green Bay beat UW Madison this year and it will have no major effect on UW.

[buckchuckler]

Seriously, its over.  He's gone.  We are in a better spot.  Its time to let go and give it up.

[TJ]

Even more importantly:
If a mid major like Butler, with a group of unknown kids can get this far (and may win the whole damn thing), then there is no excuse for our expectations to be low. All you need is good coaching, good camaraderie, some talent(even if not big name), and some luck.

We should expect similar results from our program--and no I am not saying Final 4 every year, but at least compete for regular season confernce Championship and Sweet 16 appearances. After all, we have a bigger budget, better confernce to recruit to and a greater recruiting base.

Great point.  Maybe a tad too ambitious, but certainly the expectations should be closer to that than the posters here.

So what team shouldn't expect to see the same success as Butler or as you put...regular season conference championships and sweet 16 appearances?  Only 16 teams can do that...

Like I said above, maybe willie's outline was just a tad too ambitious, but I read a poster here saying that we shouldn't expect next year's team to be able to repeat the success of this team - and that was only 11 conference wins for 5th place and a first round bow-out.  We should most certainly expect at least that, and probably more.

[GGGG]

Private schools like Butler, Marquette and Gonzaga don't have the margin for error that the state schools have.  Those schools, especially those that have big time football programs, can afford to have down years...even down decades...but have the resources to return to prominence after they slip.  The college football landscape is littered with private schools that were once powers who have come upon hard times.  DePaul, Loyola, St. Johns, San Francisco, etc.

So honestly, IU is a better program than Butler.  It's a program that has resources that Butler doesn't have and will be able to weather this downslide better than Butler would be able to weather one.

On a side note:  The fact that Marquette was once a member of what is now the Horizon League, a league that DePaul at the time wouldn't even consider joining, and is now a member of the Big East is damn near miraculous.  We owe a great deal to the visionary leadership of the MU administration, and the success of Kevin O'Neill and Tom Crean for getting us in this position.

[avid1010]

Great point.  Maybe a tad too ambitious, but certainly the expectations should be closer to that than the posters here.
Like I said above, maybe willie's outline was just a tad too ambitious, but I read a poster here saying that we shouldn't expect next year's team to be able to repeat the success of this team - and that was only 11 conference wins for 5th place and a first round bow-out.  We should most certainly expect at least that, and probably more.

I just get a kick out of people who see others doing well, and then expect MU to be no different.  From an outsiders point of view there are plenty of teams with more $$$ than MU that don't do nearly as well.  That same type of logic should be used to say we can do no better than them.  So I think the only thing you can do is look at an individual team, and look at what they are doing to compete at a high level.  By Willie's logic, UW-Milwaukee, UW-GB, etc. should all be competing at the level Butler is.  I hate when people make demands, but offer no suggestions for how to get there.  If Butler would have had Willie's type of attitude from the start, they wouldn't be where they are now.

[Dawson Rental]

to MU's basketball program and Buzz if UW-Green Bay was playing for the NCAA Championship on Monday night?

Obviously, UWGB would be looked on as the preeminent program in the state. Would instate recruits see the young, cool, calm, and collected coach, as someone they wanted to play for and therefore, make it more difficult to keep homegrown talent? How 'bout Buzz? Would he be on the hot seat or begin to feel he can't take MU any farther? Man, a Horizon League team passing up a big time conference team right in your own state, go figure.

Happy Easter, Tom Crean.

Actually, three big time conference teams right in your own state.  (ND and Purdue, incl.)  Which makes the point, Butler is so good this year, I don't see any problem with being behind them.  Finishing behind IUPUI, Indiana State, Valpo., and Ball State, now that's a problem. 

This could still work out for Mr. Crean.  Verdell Jones III was a find for him, and all of the rest of his decent players are going to be sophomores and juniors next year, including his two best, who are both Freshmen.  If they finish 50% next year, improve again the next year, AND he gets a respectable number of recruits out of Indiana's next two graduating classes which are great, then he'll be fine.  And we'll have him to kick around a while longer. 

[willie warrior]

So what team shouldn't expect to see the same success as Butler or as you put...regular season conference championships and sweet 16 appearances?  Only 16 teams can do that...

That's my point--we should be one of those 16. Why not? Here we go again--because it is too difficult!

[avid1010]

That's my point--we should be one of those 16. Why not? Here we go again--because it is too difficult!

So how do you get there?  Why couldn't Calhoun, Williams, Howland, etc. live up to your expectations.  Only 16 teams make it...how do you expect MU to be a top 16 team every year?

[ATL MU Warrior]

So how do you get there?  Why couldn't Calhoun, Williams, Howland, etc. live up to your expectations.  Only 16 teams make it...how do you expect MU to be a top 16 team every year?

Because he's Willie...he doesn't often make sense or provide any real insight...other than the fact that WE NEED A DECENT BIG!!