NL Central Pissing Match - 2010

[SaintPaulWarrior]

The week Bill Wirtz died I went out and bought my white sweater.  As bad as it sounds none of this happens if he doesn't die.

Dan Hampton agrees....

"After crawling through the desert for so many years, now (the Blackhawks) are on the cusp of having the best team in the NHL," Hampton told us Tuesday. "They have captured the imagination in a way a lot of people never thought it would happen when the old man (Bill Wirtz) was running the bunch. It's a fairy tale."

[MerrittsMustache]

I became Hawks fan in the early 90s because Chris Chelios lived fairly close to me and went to my church. For a kid, that's all it takes (I guess it helped that they were pretty good at the time too). I was driven away by Bill Wirtz, a lack of coverage, and some pathetic teams over the next decade or so. I've come back to hockey and the Blackhawks in the last couple years. This begs the question...

Bandwagon or fair-weather?

[damuts222]

 If they didn't televise Brewers games, before the last couple of years where they have contended...I wonder how many Brewers fans would be called fairweather?

[Hards Alumni]

If they didn't televise Brewers games, before the last couple of years where they have contended...I wonder how many Brewers fans would be called fairweather?

The difference is attendance.

Miller Park had a lot to do with bringing up attendance.

[JWags85]

The difference is attendance.

Miller Park had a lot to do with bringing up attendance.

Yeah, in the first year.  They averaged 34K or so a game and then the next 3 years attendance plummeted down to around 20K before resting in that 20-25K range, and now that the Brewers are good, its risen back up to a top 10 level.  The new shiny effect of Miller Park brought attendance up, but it went right back down to previous levels.  Don't give me metro area stats, thats as good of evidence for what you are trying to refute as any.

[Hards Alumni]

Yeah, in the first year.  They averaged 34K or so a game and then the next 3 years attendance plummeted down to around 20K before resting in that 20-25K range, and now that the Brewers are good, its risen back up to a top 10 level.  The new shiny effect of Miller Park brought attendance up, but it went right back down to previous levels.  Don't give me metro area stats, thats as good of evidence for what you are trying to refute as any.

I have said that winning matters more than anything, but the new stadium definitely helped a lot.

[JWags85]

I have said that winning matters more than anything, but the new stadium definitely helped a lot.

I agree, but then how is it so unfeasible that being able to see teams on TV can't jack up attendance?  I get much more excited about going to Marquette games as the season progresses and you get a feel for the team and its players as opposed to the beginning of the season when you have no clue what you are going to get. Just sayin'

[Moonboots]

Yeah, in the first year.  They averaged 34K or so a game and then the next 3 years attendance plummeted down to around 20K before resting in that 20-25K range, and now that the Brewers are good, its risen back up to a top 10 level.  The new shiny effect of Miller Park brought attendance up, but it went right back down to previous levels.  Don't give me metro area stats, thats as good of evidence for what you are trying to refute as any.

I'm failing to see where the problem is here. Isn't this the case with most stadiums? They open up, draw huge numbers because everyone wants to see the shiny new toy, and then slowly level out. The Brewers always draw well through mid summer, and the combination of them falling out of contention and the dawn of football season brings the season averages down to about 25K... a reasonable expectation for what is probably an average or slightly above average baseball town.

It would be a bit different and more noteworthy if we were drawing 14K/game in 04, 05, and 06, and all of a sudden made a playoff push and packed Miller Park with 42K (self-proclaimed) lifelong, diehard Brewers fans. That would be Blackhawks worthy.

[TallTitan34]

It would be a bit different and more noteworthy if we were drawing 14K/game in 04, 05, and 06, and all of a sudden made a playoff push and packed Miller Park with 42K (self-proclaimed) lifelong, diehard Brewers fans. That would be Blackhawks worthy.

Again keep in mind the Blackhawks weren't on tv prior to three years ago.  If the Brewers weren't on tv for that amount of time I'd be willing to bet you guys would be cheering for the Washington Brewers (Nationals).

[Hards Alumni]

Again keep in mind the Blackhawks weren't on tv prior to three years ago.  If the Brewers weren't on tv for that amount of time I'd be willing to bet you guys would be cheering for the Washington Brewers (Nationals).

This may be totally ignorant, but until FSN picked up the Brewers, I'm not sure they were on TV all that much.

again, I have no idea.

oh, and Selig would have never moved the Brewers.  Ever.

[LON]

This may be totally ignorant, but until FSN picked up the Brewers, I'm not sure they were on TV all that much.

again, I have no idea.

oh, and Selig would have never moved the Brewers.  Ever.

IIRC, after FSN picked them up they weren't even measuring the ratings correctly (something like not picking up the viewership in the northern half of the state) which led to a really bad TV deal (until recently).

Can't say where I read that (or when) but I do recall something to that effect.

edit: sp

[wadesworld]

Walkoff 1st to home bunt?!  WOW can Carlos Gomez be exciting.  That was insane

[NavinRJohnson]

Walkoff 1st to home bunt?!  WOW can Carlos Gomez be exciting.  That was insane

That last inning really summed up just how exciting and frustrating Carlos Gomez can be at the same time...he did everything you would hope he would do...got on base, and clearly demonstrated he can be a very smart, high baseball IQ player, great base runner, and a guy who can put tremendous pressure on the defense. Now if he could just figure out how to do it with some sort of consistency, he'd be an All Star.

[MerrittsMustache]

The Brewers scored 2 of their runs on Little League style plays. What an embarassing display. The Cubs play dumb, dumb baseball. Nady had no business making that throw to third and if Theriot simply turned the standard 4-6-3 DP on McGehee's grounder in the 4th, the Cubs probably would have won. Actually, nevermind. This Cubs team would have just found a different way to F things up.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

That last inning really summed up just how exciting and frustrating Carlos Gomez can be at the same time...he did everything you would hope he would do...got on base, and clearly demonstrated he can be a very smart, high baseball IQ player, great base runner, and a guy who can put tremendous pressure on the defense. Now if he could just figure out how to do it with some sort of consistency, he'd be an All Star.

Welcome to being a Twins fan in 2008/2009.

With this said, Carlos really doesn't have far to go to be "solid" or even "good". His defensive range is excellent (routes are a little weird, but range is great).

His glove is good enough at a premium defensive position that he really only needs to bat .260 or so to be an effective player.

If he could bat .300, he would probably be an all-star. He'd not the best base-stealer in the league, but 1st-3rd or 1st -home, he's probably the fastest guy in the league. He puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the defense.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Thanks for the sweep Brewers, only 2.5 out after winning 9 in a row.

[PBRme]

Yeah, in the first year.  They averaged 34K or so a game and then the next 3 years attendance plummeted down to around 20K before resting in that 20-25K range, and now that the Brewers are good, its risen back up to a top 10 level.  The new shiny effect of Miller Park brought attendance up, but it went right back down to previous levels.  Don't give me metro area stats, thats as good of evidence for what you are trying to refute as any.

I do not think it went all the way down.  It really helps attendance for early season when you could be sitting in 30 degree weather and sleet/.

[wadesworld]

So ANY chance of anything good coming from this season has now gone out the window for the Brewers.  Corey Hart injured his wrist tonight, and although X-rays were negative, he needs an MRI.  With MRI results taking a couple days to get back and the trade deadline 8 days away, no team will want to trade for a bat with a bum wrist.  That's great news.

Oh well, with Doug Melvin and the current scouting staff still here, chances are we would've traded him for a couple minor league pitchers who never even made it to the major leagues.

Great.

[wadesworld]

9.5 games out and:

"They have decided they're close enough to contention that they're not selling, so Hart and Fielder are off the market," Law said, citing an executive from a rival club that was interested in a Brewers player.

What a joke.  Melvin and Ash have to go after this season and before we trade Fielder and Hart, otherwise we'll get some minor league players who never pan out and end up not making it to the major leagues.

Those 2 have to be absolutely delusional.  First they try to replace CC Sabathia with Braden Looper.  Then, after realizing just how terrible our starting pitching is aside from Yovani, they fix it by signing Davis and Wolf.  Now we're 9.5 games out of 1st and 9 games out of 2nd heading into August and we're "close enough to contention."  That makes sense.

At least the Cubs are making some moves and making SOMETHING out of this season.  This season is just an absolute waste for the Brewers.

[copious1218]

9.5 games out and:

"They have decided they're close enough to contention that they're not selling, so Hart and Fielder are off the market," Law said, citing an executive from a rival club that was interested in a Brewers player.

What a joke.  Melvin and Ash have to go after this season and before we trade Fielder and Hart, otherwise we'll get some minor league players who never pan out and end up not making it to the major leagues.

Those 2 have to be absolutely delusional.  First they try to replace CC Sabathia with Braden Looper.  Then, after realizing just how terrible our starting pitching is aside from Yovani, they fix it by signing Davis and Wolf.  Now we're 9.5 games out of 1st and 9 games out of 2nd heading into August and we're "close enough to contention."  That makes sense.

At least the Cubs are making some moves and making SOMETHING out of this season.  This season is just an absolute waste for the Brewers.

As a Cubs fan that realized the season was over in May/June, what exactly are the making of this season? 

Note:  I'm not interested in one of those online brawls that seem to take place between Ners/Marq84 or CBB/Canadian Dimes.  I'm just curious as to the view of those that see things from the other side of the coin.

[GGGG]

9.5 games out and:

"They have decided they're close enough to contention that they're not selling, so Hart and Fielder are off the market," Law said, citing an executive from a rival club that was interested in a Brewers player.

Completely delusional.  Fielder's trade value drops enormously when you can't use him for this pennent race.

There are two scenarios that might be at work here.  Melvin pretty much has to go with what he's got because trading Fielder and firing Macha admits that he completely f-ed the whole thing up.  He'll likely be fired anyway and the new regime figures it out.

What would be much, much worse is that Anastasio is tying his hands because of Fielder's popularity.

The worst thing that happened was that little mini win streak last week.  It gave people false hopes.

[wadesworld]

As a Cubs fan that realized the season was over in May/June, what exactly are the making of this season? 

Note:  I'm not interested in one of those online brawls that seem to take place between Ners/Marq84 or CBB/Canadian Dimes.  I'm just curious as to the view of those that see things from the other side of the coin.

That was my point.  The Brewers just turned this season into an absolute waste by not trading away guys that had some trade value (as Sultan said, Fielder has value because he can be a big bat joining a team looking to make it over the hump for the playoff push, and Hart cannot possibly have higher trade value than he has right now...although spraining his wrist a week before the trade deadline didn't help).

My point was that while the Cubs' season is over, at least their front office realized it and traded some players (Lilly, Theriot) for the future.  The Brewers front office sat their and told themselves that they were still in it despite already being 9.5 games out of 1st place (and 9 out of 2nd) and then promptly get swept by the 2nd worst team in the division, who had just traded away their 2 best players BY FAR.

So the point of that post was just to vent about how delusional the front office for the Brewers has been for a while and how this season is now a complete waste because we sat on our hands at the trade deadline.

[shiloh26]

In other NL Central news, can anyone explain how Roy Oswalt and Dan Haren were each traded for a hill of beans, but the Cardinals gave up Ryan Ludwick for Jake Westbrook? 

[wadesworld]

In other NL Central news, can anyone explain how Roy Oswalt and Dan Haren were each traded for a hill of beans, but the Cardinals gave up Ryan Ludwick for Jake Westbrook? 

J.A. Haap is really good. The Phillies had trouble agreeing to a deal with the Indians for Cliff Lee last year because they weren't willing to give him up.

[MUBurrow]

looks like the Reds woke a sleeping giant.  too bad, I was really hoping they would be the team out of the Central. I also really like B Phillips and really don't like the Cards.  A lot of ball to be played for sure, but if this huge series is any indication, the Reds should have been happy just trying to sneak in a little under the radar. they just aren't as talented - yet.