Anti Referee B*tching

[MUBurrow]

The only thing worse than a team that loses a close game and complains about the referees is one that simply gets outmuscled, and God forbid I say it, outhustled in a game and then complains about the other team making their own luck.  Washington swept us in fast break points, and had countless other hoops because of temp that just missed out on qualifying (a particular late pull up three comes to mind).  When you create that kind of tempo and the other team is clearly uncomfortable with it, you are going to go to the free line more. Plus, we gave up a lot of offensive rebounds late and had a bounce or two (the late offensive rebound) just go against us. 

I am remarkably proud and happy with all this team has given us this year, but we got beat at our own game tonight. Let's not devolve into the fans that complain about everything and look for an excuse, we make fun of those fans on this board all the time. Even if the calls were uneven, Washington created that discrepancy with how they played the game. 

[Aughnanure]

The only thing worse than a team that loses a close game and complains about the referees is one that simply gets outmuscled, and God forbid I say it, outhustled in a game and then complains about the other team making their own luck.  Washington swept us in fast break points, and had countless other hoops because of temp that just missed out on qualifying (a particular late pull up three comes to mind).  When you create that kind of tempo and the other team is clearly uncomfortable with it, you are going to go to the free line more. Plus, we gave up a lot of offensive rebounds late and had a bounce or two (the late offensive rebound) just go against us.  

I am remarkably proud and happy with all this team has given us this year, but we got beat at our own game tonight. Let's not devolve into the fans that complain about everything and look for an excuse, we make fun of those fans on this board all the time. Even if the calls were uneven, Washington created that discrepancy with how they played the game.  

You're right, refs should always and completely be free of criticism....

[NersEllenson]

The only thing worse than a team that loses a close game and complains about the referees is one that simply gets outmuscled, and God forbid I say it, outhustled in a game and then complains about the other team making their own luck.  Washington swept us in fast break points, and had countless other hoops because of temp that just missed out on qualifying (a particular late pull up three comes to mind).  When you create that kind of tempo and the other team is clearly uncomfortable with it, you are going to go to the free line more. Plus, we gave up a lot of offensive rebounds late and had a bounce or two (the late offensive rebound) just go against us.  

I am remarkably proud and happy with all this team has given us this year, but we got beat at our own game tonight. Let's not devolve into the fans that complain about everything and look for an excuse, we make fun of those fans on this board all the time. Even if the calls were uneven, Washington created that discrepancy with how they played the game.  

Help me understand how we got beat at our own game tonight, yet were uncomfortable with the tempo?  We've not been a fast break team all year, by design due to short bench.  And it isn't an excuse if it is a fact - and the fact is this was a terribly officiated game. Our first defensive position of the game Mo got whistled for barely any contact..yet in the 2nd half UW was free to molest the hell out of him every posession  Not consisten whatsoever

[Moonboots]

To pull something I said in another thread, specifically regarding UW making their own luck... there's some truth to that.

Precisely. And that's not Romar's fault. It's not Washington's players faults. It's not the fault of the UW fan base. They should be thrilled. They played well, and when it was determined that they'd be allowed to play like they did, kudos for keeping it up.  I just can't agree with the game being called like that. It's not the precedent that was set in the first half, and it didn't start getting called like that until AFTER our key players were in foul trouble.  "Adjustments" were a tough go for MU at that point.  It's easy to get gun shy when two possessions could eliminate Lazar for the final 6 minutes of the game.

I felt that Marquette was definitely subject to some ticky-tack fouls when it came to physical play... namely Lazar's offensive foul, Jimmy having rebounding position on Pondexter but getting called and putting him on the line, and Acker's late reach foul contesting an errant inbound pass.

It was clear that UW was changing their strategy to become more urgent and pressure-oriented.  It forced a few turnovers, but in my head I thought "good, with the way this game is being called, we'll be in the double bonus in no time and hopefully icing this away". But the pressure kept coming, even more and more violently, and the accompanying calls never came.  That's the part I don't get.

[Aughnanure]

Help me understand how we got beat at our own game tonight, yet were uncomfortable with the tempo?  We've not been a fast break team all year, by design due to short bench.  And it isn't an excuse if it is a fact - and the fact is this was a terribly officiated game. Our first defensive position of the game Mo got whistled for barely any contact..yet in the 2nd half UW was free to molest the hell out of him every position.  Not consisten whatsoever

Thanks Ners.....I hate how relevant and appropriate criticism of the refs has become "whining." If anything, there needs to be more public criticism and the officials need to be held to a more consistent standard (think about how different games are called depending on who is the home team....in any league).

[punchystones]

Ners you have anything else to say other than constantly crying about the officiating?  Any knowledge pertaining to the game of basketball?

[NersEllenson]

Ners you have anything else to say other than constantly crying about the officiating?  Any knowledge pertaining to the game of basketball?

Do you not have anything better to do with your time than to come to an MU message board with disparaging remarks?  It's easy to read your 17 posts, and they speak for themself as to who you are and what your motives are.  And no, I have no knowledge of the game of basketball, but was a coach at MU's summer basketball camp 2 years in a row with other former college basketball players, and high-level high school players, of which I was one.  Why I'm even justifying myself to a douche like you is pretty lame of me, actually.

[MUBurrow]

Help me understand how we got beat at our own game tonight, yet were uncomfortable with the tempo?  We've not been a fast break team all year, by design due to short bench.  And it isn't an excuse if it is a fact - and the fact is this was a terribly officiated game. Our first defensive position of the game Mo got whistled for barely any contact..yet in the 2nd half UW was free to molest the hell out of him every posession  Not consisten whatsoever

We got beat at our own game in the sense that we got beat to loose balls, we got beat by the 3, we got beat by a team who played like their hair was on fire more than we did. In our attempt to slow the game down and not play run and gun, I would argue that we lost the frenetic pace we play with in the half court, and we were unsure how to marry both a)slowing down Washington and b)playing with the scrappy intensity we need.

I simply disagree with the "fact" that this was a terribly officiated game.  Of course there were some things that should have gone our way, but as I was watching, I was certainly more struck with ways Washington was beating us than by officiating.  We haven't seen a lot of pressure like what Washington threw at us tonight, and simply because its new and more intense doesn't make it illegal.  The reason Mo was seemingly always on the wrong side of the calls was because of how he was picked up on D.  They were running so Mo was rarely playing established, half court D - put him in worse positions to commit fouls.  We on the other hand, upon beating the early pressure, slowed up to run a half court set and allowed Washington's defenders to establish themselves. You aren't going to get as many calls that way.

[punchystones]

Congrats you volunteer at a summer camp.  I actually coach at one of the top high schools in Missouri.  Which is why I do not blame the refs for us blowing a 15 point second half lead or point at our defensive problems.  What do you do at the summer camps, cry about the refs and teach the campers how to whine the whole time.

[punchystones]

You don't have to like me or agree with me (I will be fine regardless).....just do something other than blame the game on the refs.  It is also not necessary to call anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't have the same number of posts as you names.  Funny, how you do not call out the Sultan even though we are saying the same thing regarding tonight's game.

[duanewade]

The only thing worse than a team that loses a close game and complains about the referees is one that simply gets outmuscled, and God forbid I say it, outhustled in a game and then complains about the other team making their own luck.  Washington swept us in fast break points, and had countless other hoops because of temp that just missed out on qualifying (a particular late pull up three comes to mind).  When you create that kind of tempo and the other team is clearly uncomfortable with it, you are going to go to the free line more. Plus, we gave up a lot of offensive rebounds late and had a bounce or two (the late offensive rebound) just go against us. 

I am remarkably proud and happy with all this team has given us this year, but we got beat at our own game tonight. Let's not devolve into the fans that complain about everything and look for an excuse, we make fun of those fans on this board all the time. Even if the calls were uneven, Washington created that discrepancy with how they played the game. 

I'm sorry but this thread is as silly as the concept of national health care.....on both issues you will not receive my vote. 

[Moonboots]

As I'm watching SD St. getting jobbed in this game against Tennessee... it got me to thinking.

I see the sentiment from the OP of this thread. Complaining about the refs is low. Supposedly not a good thing for the losers to do.  I try to call it like I see it, and there have been games this year where I've felt, coming out of the game, that Marquette got the better end of the officials' graces (in games that we have won) and games that we've won where I felt we got shafted numerous times more than the opponent as well.

I pose a question to the "never complain about the refs" contingent. Say we're in our little Marquette fantasy land.  Pondexter misses his scoop shot. We drive down. Hit a game winner. No controversial stuff in that final 12 seconds or whatever it was. MUScoop is giddy and celebrates long into the night. What exactly do UW fans have to complain about with regards to the refs? They were allowed to harass us the entire second half. Nothing borderline was really called on them at all. I don't even believe we hit the bonus.  They imposed their aggressive style, bodied, shoved, did whatever they wanted to, and were called for 2 less fouls than an MU team that was doing its best impression of a matador. How is that possible?

The strategy paid off. Romar had them bring it, and they got away with it. Pondexter hit a clutch shot. They move on, and our season is over.  Talk all you want about blowing the 15 pt lead, but don't pretend that being allowed to get smacked in the mouth every possession up and down the court and not having the same privilege on the defensive end has no impact at all.

[CTWarrior]

I'm not one to moan about refs much.  To me the team that actually got absolutely jobbed today was Robert Morris.  And I was rooting for Villanova.

[MUBurrow]

I'm not a member of a never complain about the refs crew, but I just don't think today is the day.  I don't think the officiating tonight was so independently bad that it warrants the post game focus it has gotten on this board. I am particularly sensitive to the higher scrutiny this board is under from fans of other teams during the tournament, and the fact that there are 3,4,5 different threads regarding officiating does not reflect well on us. I guess that was my main feeling.  

Of course it can be mentioned, and sometimes it really does change the outcome of a game (D-Wade's NBA championship comes to mind).  But today, to complain about the officiating, is in my opinion asking the refs to become a bigger part of it, not less. We want more fouls because Washington's strategy on D was to really take it to us. It wasn't cheap or unfair, just very aggressive.  But Washington asserted that tempo, it would be more unfair for the refs to take it away from them than leaving it up to us whether we rose to the challenge. (Which we almost did, we only lost by a late basket)

[NersEllenson]

Congrats you volunteer at a summer camp.  I actually coach at one of the top high schools in Missouri.  Which is why I do not blame the refs for us blowing a 15 point second half lead or point at our defensive problems.  What do you do at the summer camps, cry about the refs and teach the campers how to whine the whole time.

Good for you...How do you have your teams defend when you have a 2 deep bench, and 3 of your starters have 2 fouls 10 minutes (or in high school time, 1 Quarter into a game).  What defensive strategies would you have suggested for MU tonight, given that on our 1st defensive possesion Mo Acker was whistled for a touch foul?  Lazar getting whistled for a very suspect moving screen?  DJO getting called for a block on the fast break play when the UW player was out of control and jumped well into DJO?  OR what about in the 1st half when Pondexter did the spin move into the lane, completely out of control, and ran straight into a stationary Lazar, lost the ball out of bounds, yet was awarded 2 free throws and Zar had to come out of the game with 2 fouls, and some balls that really hurt from getting drilled in the nuts in a standstill position.

Lastly, I don't belive for 1 minute you are a High School basketball coach, as you are enough of a liar to front as an Marquette fan, when all evidence points to the exact opposite.  Oh, and you asked why I don't call Sultan out..well at least he posts here consistently, and doesn't take a year off in between MU NCAA basketball games.

[duanewade]

Good for you...How do you have your teams defend when you have a 2 deep bench, and 3 of your starters have 2 fouls 10 minutes (or in high school time, 1 Quarter into a game).  What defensive strategies would you have suggested for MU tonight, given that on our 1st defensive possesion Mo Acker was whistled for a touch foul?  Lazar getting whistled for a very suspect moving screen?  DJO getting called for a block on the fast break play when the UW player was out of control and jumped well into DJO?  OR what about in the 1st half when Pondexter did the spin move into the lane, completely out of control, and ran straight into a stationary Lazar, lost the ball out of bounds, yet was awarded 2 free throws and Zar had to come out of the game with 2 fouls, and some balls that really hurt from getting drilled in the nuts in a standstill position.

Lastly, I don't belive for 1 minute you are a High School basketball coach, as you are enough of a liar to front as an Marquette fan, when all evidence points to the exact opposite.  Oh, and you asked why I don't call Sultan out..well at least he posts here consistently, and doesn't take a year off in between MU NCAA basketball games.

Well said.

[timinatorx3]

Well the game was so far out of reach for Marquette that the iffy calls didn't matter.....




Right?

[rocky_warrior]

OR what about in the 1st half when Pondexter did the spin move into the lane, completely out of control, and ran straight into a stationary Lazar, lost the ball out of bounds, yet was awarded 2 free throws and Zar had to come out of the game with 2 fouls, and some balls that really hurt from getting drilled in the nuts in a standstill position.

Lastly, I don't belive for 1 minute you are a High School basketball coach, as you are enough of a liar to front as an Marquette fan, when all evidence points to the exact opposite.  Oh, and you asked why I don't call Sultan out..well at least he posts here consistently, and doesn't take a year off in between MU NCAA basketball games.

[prestonluv]

The refs single handidly erased a 15 point deficit. 

I bet you would love to have Elston Turner and Venoy Overton on your team tho...

good game...no amount of bitching will change the outcome.  It would be more productive to look at what Marquette could of done better in order to win this game.  Teach that to your players and prepare for next year.

Oh yeah....rewatching the 2nd half brought me to the biggest reason why i think UW won.  Isaiah Thomas shut your lefty down completely.  It was textbook and should be replayed over and over when teaching young players on how to deny a person off the ball.

[rocky_warrior]

Oh yeah....rewatching the 2nd half brought me to the biggest reason why i think UW won.  Isaiah Thomas shut your lefty down completely.  It was textbook and should be replayed over and over when teaching young players on how to deny a person off the ball.

Really, you shut DJO down in the second half, and that's why we lost..  Well, I guess his erratic performance during games all year was all UW, and didn't have anything to do with the play of MU or DJO...
 
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/darius-johnson-odom/team_impact

Now go STFU and enjoy your win.  Thanks  

[prestonluv]

he wasn't erratic in the 2nd half...he was non exisitent.

Thomas rarely let him touch the ball and when he did he was in his grill.

Erratic usually means turnovers and ill advised shots.

Anyway odom will be a good one the next 2 years and probably has more upside than our lefty because of his size.

gl next year

[DaCoach]

When we're up by 15 with 15 to play, it's not the refs fault we lost. On the other hand, the officiating was uneven. Mo's foul in the first minute of play doesn't get called in 9 games out of 10. And yet not once do I recall a foul going the other way in the 2nd half when the Huskies stepped up the physical play.

Bottom line is that we blew a lead and game that was ours to take. Great teams rise above adversity. Today we didn't.

[rocky_warrior]

he wasn't erratic in the 2nd half...he was non exisitent.

I guess you missed my point (and to be fair, my link wasn't really helping to prove my point).  DJO has taken HIMSELF out of games most of the year, ceasing to be aggressive when we really need him to be.  We still won a number of those games, and I'm just saying, that's wasn't the difference today. 

But nice try.  Move along PLEASE.