Boeheim Should NOT Win COY

[Benny B]

I've resigned myself to the reality that Jim Boeheim is going to win COY in the BEast and probably nationally as well.  And if this happens, it will be a clear demonstration on how media hype has spun itself out of control.

Consider this:

What is the argument for Boeheim winning COY?  Many will agree that he lost a lot of talent yet still won the regular season BEast title (or at least a share at this point).  Moreover, he has his team in line for a #1 seed in the tournament.  None of which was predicted at the start of the season.

Losing talent IS NOT a prerequisite for COY.  I don't care if you lost 5 First-Team All American players from your team last year.  If you want to give Boeheim an award because he lost talent from last year, give him a most improved or character-type award.

So we get to the "outperformed expectations" argument.  So now I'll ask, when did arbitrary preseason predictions become the determining factor for COY?  The media did a piss-poor job of predicting how good Syracuse would be... is that a legitimate reason to give Boeheim an award?  If Syracuse was ranked Top 10 preseason, would Boeheim still be the front runner for COY?

Boeheim DOES NOT DESERVE coach of the year.  Not in the Big East, not nationally.  The only reason he is at the forefront of the conversation is because the media grossly overlooked the talent he has on his roster at the beginning of the year and now they want to save face.

Boeheim has a regular rotation that goes 7 deep (with another three players who have made significant contributions this season) and 5 players averaging double-digits.  He has at least two players that will be in the conversation for First-Team Big East and will be in consideration for the All-American teams.  Forget about what he had last year, the team he has this year is just as talented, if not more.

So why does a coach with a loaded roster get all the love while the coach of the 10-6 fifth place team, who has gone most of the season with only 7 or 8 healthy scholarship players at a time and was picked to finish 12th, is simply honorable mention?

Buzz has exceeded expectations far more than Boeheim has with less overall talent and even less returning talent.  If that's the criteria, Buzz should be the favorite for COY.

[avid1010]

The fact that ESPN noted he doesn't have one top 100 player, and the fact that so many coaches passed on the talent that is paying off for him this year IS a big deal. He found that talent, developed that talent, and now has one of, if not the best, programs in the nation.  I'd say he deserves strong consideration. 

[dwaderoy2004]

I don't understand what your criteria is.  If it's NOT outperformed expectations or losing talent, then it would have to be based on record and success.  I would say clinching a share of the Big East regular season title with a week to play and being No. 1 in the country (which they will ascend to today) beats the amount of success Marquette has had. 

Boeheim deserves it.  So does Buzz.  Only one can win it.

[dpu70]

Right now, I would rank Dixon, then Buzz, then Boeheim.  Dixon and Buzz have done more considering their last season player losses, and putting the current team together.

[Roscoe]

Boeheim deserves it.  So does Buzz.  Only one can win it.

Agreed.  All the things Boeheim is being criticized for, a ton of talent, deep rotation, etc., are all the things that coaches are supposed to do.  Recruit and develop blue-chippers is what it's all about, from a strict basketball sense.  Hard to argue if Boeheim wins COY.

That said, I'm extremely impressed with Buzz and he deserves every accolade coming his way.  He's done a marvelous job coaching this team, both on and off the court. 

[bma725]

The fact that ESPN noted he doesn't have one top 100 player, and the fact that so many coaches passed on the talent that is paying off for him this year IS a big deal. He found that talent, developed that talent, and now has one of, if not the best, programs in the nation.  I'd say he deserves strong consideration. 

Did ESPN actually say that?  Because it's not true at all, he's got 5 consensus Top 100 players on his roster, and a couple other guys that made at least one ranking.

[dwaderoy2004]

ESPN did say that.  But they were referring to his 7 man rotation, so that doesn't include mookie jones or deshonte riley for sure.  I still thought at least one of there 7 regulars was a top 100 guy.

[goodgreatgrand]

You are probably talking about their final h.s. ranking. None of their players were highly ranked as juniors (when colleges step up their recruiting efforts).

[bma725]

You are probably talking about their final h.s. ranking. None of their players were highly ranked as juniors (when colleges step up their recruiting efforts).

Simply not true. 

Scoop Jardine, Rick Jackson, Kris Joseph, and Dashonte Riley were all Top 100 players as Juniors.  In fact all four of those guys were actually ranked higher as juniors than they were as seniors.  Heck, Jardine and Riley were nationally ranked prospects as freshman. 

[dsfire]

Having read the thread on the Louisville board on it (but not having seen the mention on ESPN), supposedly they said that none of Cuse's starters were ranked in the ESPNU top 100.  Since Jardine and Joseph come off the bench, that seems to indicate that ESPN's rankings whiffed on Jackson.

edit: The level that those other guys are playing at is still impressive.

edit 2: But the comment seems to be flat-out incorrect, since Jackson appears at #51 in 2007's ESPNU top 100.

[MarquetteDano]

This Syracuse not having players in the Top 100 b.s. is a great example of media errant reporting, and then repeating by the general public.  The reality is the media gets a lot of facts wrong and people need to be vigilant about it.

The sad thing is... it is contributing to Boeheim's hype and some of it is based on fallacies.

One thing I would like to say about people saying that recruiting should be considered as part of the Coach of the Year (in terms of finding good talent).  If that is the case, then why are we talking about Boeheim losing talent from last year?  Some of it due to graduation and some of it due to early departures... either way he recruited them so shouldn't he had a plan in place?  Why does he get kudos for something he created in the first place?

To me Coach of the Year should be based on coaching ability including development, pre-game preparation, and in-game tactics.  Not recruiting.  No doubt Boeheim has done a fantastic job this year but I would note for Dixon and Buzz over him in those areas this year.

[goodgreatgrand]

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/02/underrated_unheralded_recruits.HTML

[goodgreatgrand]

Head coaches should certainly have a plan in place for players that graduate. That's obvious. However, it's a much more difficult job to replace players that leave unexpectedly (Flynn, Harris, Devo).

After last years march madness, Syracuse was the VERY EARLY favorite to win this year. However, that was assuming Flynn, Devo and Harris would all come back (or at least one or two). Instead, none came back and Syracuse was listed 25th in the preseason poll. Now, Boeheim has the team to where they were suppose to be except with a completely different roster.

[jaygall31]

I've said it once and I'll say it again...

There's no way it shouldn't be Buzz. We are out-matched everywhere as Buzz says.  Our margin for error is less than one. He's not just saying that people, it's true. 10 wins? come on...11? 12?

Buzz should be conf coach of the year, and have serious recognition for national coach of the year.

[MarquetteDano]

Head coaches should certainly have a plan in place for players that graduate. That's obvious. However, it's a much more difficult job to replace players that leave unexpectedly (Flynn, Harris, Devo).

After last years march madness, Syracuse was the VERY EARLY favorite to win this year. However, that was assuming Flynn, Devo and Harris would all come back (or at least one or two). Instead, none came back and Syracuse was listed 25th in the preseason poll. Now, Boeheim has the team to where they were suppose to be except with a completely different roster.

I couldn't read the link you posted, by the way.

If you recruit Top 25 talent they are going to be one or two and done.  I don't feel bad for coaches who lose these guys to the NBA.  Compare that to Buzz who took over a team last year and lost recruits because Crean left and had to find replacements who do not have a lot of NCAA Div 1 experience.  One coach is getting accolades for losing one and two and dones whilst the other was put in the position at no fault of his.

Added I think Buzz, from a coaching perspective (to me the most important criteria of this award), has done much more with a lot less.  So has Dixon.

Your opinion on Boeheim deserving the award definitely matches the masses.  I really could care less about the National Coach of Year award since there are so many teams and I don't know everyone's story.  But for Big East, Dixon or Buzz would be my vote.

[goodgreatgrand]

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/02/underrated_unheralded_recruits.html

[bma725]

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/02/underrated_unheralded_recruits.html

I suppose yes, it's accurate to say none were in the Top 50 on scout.com, but that ignores the larger picture.  When people talk about Top 100 players, they are talking about consensus, not just that of one ranking system, because any idiot can make a rating system that says whatever he wants. 

Syracuse has 5 players that were consensus Top 100 players, the highest being Scoop Jardine at #48 in 2006, the lowest being Dashonte Riley at #85 in 2009.  That's not exactly a lack of talent.  Maybe for Syracuse it is, but a lot of schools would kill to have that much.

[MarquetteDano]

I suppose yes, it's accurate to say none were in the Top 50 on scout.com, but that ignores the larger picture.  When people talk about Top 100 players, they are talking about consensus, not just that of one ranking system, because any idiot can make a rating system that says whatever he wants.  

Syracuse has 5 players that were consensus Top 100 players, the highest being Scoop Jardine at #48 in 2006, the lowest being Dashonte Riley at #85 in 2009.  That's not exactly a lack of talent.  Maybe for Syracuse it is, but a lot of schools would kill to have that much.

According to RSCI rankings of ESPN's supposedly not Top 100 recruits...

Jardine #48 (2007)
Jackson #56 (2007)
Joseph #56 (2008)

[ErickJD08]

Great opening post.  I totally agree about the preseason predictions.  No one knows if there will be an impact freshmen or transfer.  I think its simply.  Which coach (in planning and in game) does the best job at exploiting their own strengths and covering their own weaknesses WHILE exploiting the other team's weaknesses and minimizing their strengths.  Teams like Syracuse (and Pitt) have fewer weaknesses and more strengths because of their length and talent.  So that makes his job easier (not easy, but easier).  So when Marquette is in the mix with the top teams in the Big East, Buzz has accomplished a harder task.

[dwaderoy2004]

How much easier?  4 wins/losses in conference easier?  8 wins and 7 losses overall easier.  Unfortunately, the award is subjective.  We watch MU game in and game out, so we are biased towards buzz.  we know better than anybody what we have and what buzz is accomplishing and overachieving with this bunch.  Bottom line, is that they both deserve the award.  Who deserves it more is really personal preference.

[Badgerhater]

I would rather have Buzz in the conversation regarding the future greats of BE coaching -- Dixon and Wright.

[jaygall31]

there is nothing bias about it..

look at the talent other teams have right now compared to ours, and the ridiclous size advantage.

buzz should win in a landslide, if people understood.

[dwaderoy2004]

"if people understood"

That's bias right there, bud.  People don't know about all teams equally, so they are biased in some way.

Regardless, how do you quantitatively say that Syracuse being outright BE regular season champ and #1 in the country is "easier" and thus less impressive than Buzz leading a less talented roster to 5th place in the Big East?  You can't.  The award is purely subjective.  It's your opinion that Buzz has done a better coaching job, using whatever criteria you want.  You obviously put a lot of value in overcoming odds and adversity.  Someone else may base it purely on record and overall success.

Buzz very well may win it, but I wouldn't be upset if Boeheim won it.  They are having a phenomenal season and Boeheim is very deserving.

[Jacks DC]

It would not bother me if Boeheim wins, considering he has his team ranked #1 heading into March with a completely revamped roster.

I'm not always sure I buy this "more with less" argument.  Yes, we did lose a lot from last year, but elsewhere on this board people are making the case for Hayward, Butler, and DJO as future NBA draft picks.  People are calling Acker one of the best PGs in the Big East.

Buzz has done a great job with this team, no one disputes that.  But there are some very talented players who have made some clutch plays to get us to where we are now.

[Benny B]

"if people understood"

That's bias right there, bud.  People don't know about all teams equally, so they are biased in some way.

Regardless, how do you quantitatively say that Syracuse being outright BE regular season champ and #1 in the country is "easier" and thus less impressive than Buzz leading a less talented roster to 5th place in the Big East?  You can't.  The award is purely subjective.  It's your opinion that Buzz has done a better coaching job, using whatever criteria you want.  You obviously put a lot of value in overcoming odds and adversity.  Someone else may base it purely on record and overall success.

Buzz very well may win it, but I wouldn't be upset if Boeheim won it.  They are having a phenomenal season and Boeheim is very deserving.

My original point was not that Buzz should be COY, but that Boeheim does not deserve COY even though the media have already taken it to the bank.  You're right that the criteria for each voter will be different, and hopefully they won't be influenced by everyone else, but that's not realistic.  The bandwagon has been out of the stable for weeks and it's as full as it's ever been.

I'm absolutely sick and tired about hearing how Syracuse has "exceeded expectations."  Syracuse has exceeded nothing.  The media was the one that dropped the ball by setting the bar way too low, and now Boeheim will get some hardware for his trophy case mostly because a lot of pundits and so-called experts screwed up their predictions in September.