who will last longer at his current job?

[ErickJD08]

It all comes down to the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes.  It's really that simple.  When IU had Creek earlier this year, they were beating teams like Pittsburgh, Creek was throwing up 31 on Kentucky, etc.

When he blew his knee out, it was all over.  Totally different team. The 2011 and 2012 Indiana state talent is absolutely loaded.  They will have to land a few of those kids.  If they do, they'll be fine.  If they don't, he'll be gone.

As for Buzz, he has a different scenario...he's going to have to prove he can do it without Crean's players over the next few years.  If he does, then he'll be here for the long haul (hopefully, I'm sick of MU coaches leaving after 5 years).  If he doesn't, then he'll be gone, too.   

Hmm... Can't we say that 80% of the coaching jobs come down the the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes?  And what happen to the 2010 class... ya know, the players that might make an impact next season?  I will agree that there are no guarantees.  If Crean can get into some sort of Bubble talk (like Northwestern this season), then his job will be saved for another couple of seasons.  And about Creek, that's fantastic that he is good but they still lost a bunch of games with the kid on the lineup.  Personally, I think Crean is in trouble because a bunch of Big Ten teams' stocks are on the rise.  Is Indiana's stock on the rise?  Maybe marginally because they are so bad but if a major factor in their success next season is based on a kid that just blew out his knee, that's not a good situation.  There is actually a good chance that they will be worse.  And Crean could get fired next season if there is a perfect storm.  By perfect storm, I mean another terrible season and if there is a really good coach on the market, Indiana will pull the trigger.  

Look, I think my opinion of Crean has been pretty consist and pretty much the way 90% of Marquette community feels.  I appreciate everything that Crean did but the way he left was a slap to the face of the University, students, alumni, fans, and sadly, his players.  So I am trying to be objective about the situation and I think Crean is in a real tough spot.  I think Buzz is in a better spot so odds are that Buzz will keep his job longer.

[ErickJD08]

From a talent perspective, you are correct.  From a leadership perspective, I think you're selling short the value of seniors at the guard position.  There's a reason why we have so few turnovers...senior guards.  Lazar will be brutally tough to replace.

We are a jump shooting team.  Its harder to commit a turnover shooting than putting the ball on the floor.  I am not completely dismissing your senior guard point but there are other factors too.

[avid1010]

As for Buzz, he has a different scenario...he's going to have to prove he can do it without Crean's players over the next few years.  If he does, then he'll be here for the long haul (hopefully, I'm sick of MU coaches leaving after 5 years).  If he doesn't, then he'll be gone, too.   

With the exception of Lazar, Buzz is proving he CAN do it with TC's players, and that's more impressive to me.  When I look at the players he's brought in, I'm thinking they're an upgrade from Coobie and Mo.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If Buzz leaves for a high profile gig then we went far in the NCAA's so its a worthwhile trade, IMO.

I don't....MU has finally shaken the stepping stone characterization.  I hope Buzz is here for a LONG time because it means he's doing well (somehow this will be spun that I hate Buzz)

[MU1984]

MU has finally shaken the stepping stone characterization.

Umm, says who?

[Coleman]

Buzz will stay as long as MU will have him.  Buzz has said on numerous occasions that as long as he is not kicked out, he is staying at MU.  Now, one could argue that he's just saying that because that is what the fans/administration wants to hear and there is no upside in saying anything differently but I would argue that that is not his style.  I think, at this time, he truly believes that.

Things change and who knows what the future will bring, but the gig he has now suits him perfectly for the following reasons:

--  Resources. MU provides lots of resources, whether it be chartered jets, top notch facilities
--  High Profile Program.  He is building on a pretty high base in the best conference.
--  Pay.  MU will pay him what he is worth.
--  Faith. This is not to be underestmated.  Buzz seems pretty devout (even though he isn't catholic).  I would say that the Christian aspect to the school appeals to him alot and allows him to be unrestrained in an important part of his life.
-- Intangibles The University mission which preaches service and excellence meshes well with his team first coaching philosophy.  He is also given the freedom to pursue projects like Buzz's Bunch.

One thing to think about is Buzz's approach to the program and his ego.  When it came time to do the coach's television show he refused the name of "The Buzz Williams Show" but instead named it "The Marquette Basketball Hour with Buzz Williams."  

I just don't see him getting fired anytime soon.  I also don't see him leaving for greener pastures anytime soon either.  I do think that if his success continues he will get offers but I do not see ANY program right now as being greener for him. (however,  I am not privy to his unspoken inner thoughts.)

Regarding the old coach, I don't know and really don't care.  

+1 to everything except maybe a coaching offer at the University of Texas. One could hardly fault him for wanting to return home.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Umm, says who?

Do you think we are still a stepping stone?  Perhaps we are, but not like it was in the 1980's and 1990's.  No coach going longer than 5 years, some as few as 3.  Crean gave us 9 and could have jumped after the Final Four and several other times (he certainly had feelers out there).  Him staying and the success that was brought to MU while playing in the Big East was HUGE.  I'd hate to get back into a pattern of 5 year coaches.  Not a good situation.

[ChicosBailBonds]

With the exception of Lazar, Buzz is proving he CAN do it with TC's players, and that's more impressive to me.  When I look at the players he's brought in, I'm thinking they're an upgrade from Coobie and Mo.

No disagreement from me at all.  After this year, the book finally closes on TC at MU. No more leftovers.  It's all Buzz.  Good kids coming in, still don't have the height that so many here want, but we'll have to adjust.  I'm always nervous about inexperienced point guards.  That, and replacing Lazar Hayward, a candidate for Big East POY this year.

[martyconlonontherun]

Buzz will stay as long as MU will have him.  Buzz has said on numerous occasions that as long as he is not kicked out, he is staying at MU.  Now, one could argue that he's just saying that because that is what the fans/administration wants to hear and there is no upside in saying anything differently but I would argue that that is not his style.  I think, at this time, he truly believes that.

Turns out Crean never considered Illinois. Why would he go house hunting if we was here for the long haul?
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/cusa/2003-04-22-crean-extension_x.htm

Buzz is a great guy, but just because he says he loves it at MU doesn't mean he won't be tempted if a KU or UK type job gets posted.

[MU1984]

Do you think we are still a stepping stone?  Perhaps we are, but not like it was in the 1980's and 1990's.  No coach going longer than 5 years, some as few as 3.  Crean gave us 9 and could have jumped after the Final Four and several other times (he certainly had feelers out there).  Him staying and the success that was brought to MU while playing in the Big East was HUGE.  I'd hate to get back into a pattern of 5 year coaches.  Not a good situation.

He still left to go to a "better" program.  I would consider a program that is no longer considered a "stepping-stone" as Gonzaga, not Marquette...yet.  I know we all would like to think Buzz wants to stay here for a long time and I'm sure he does right now.  He has had a long, hard, strange trip to be a HC of a big conference school and I'm sure he is very happy to be here and we're more than happy to have him.  That said, if we have any degree of success in the last weekend of March/first weekend of April, I still believe coaches will think the grass is greener away from Marquette, especially a guy who is from Texas and has zero ties to the area.  I hope I'm wrong.  I'm a huge fan, but we have to be realistic.

[ErickJD08]

No disagreement from me at all.  After this year, the book finally closes on TC at MU. No more leftovers.  It's all Buzz.  Good kids coming in, still don't have the height that so many here want, but we'll have to adjust.  I'm always nervous about inexperienced point guards.  That, and replacing Lazar Hayward, a candidate for Big East POY this year.

As far as the height goes, we will be taller.  Otule will probably get some productive minutes which will be an height improvement.  And we are losing 2 of our shortest (2 of the shortest in the BEast) next year too.  This year, we are undersized in almost every position.  Next year, not so much.  

[MU1984]

To clarify:  I don't think MU is a true stepping stone school.  Mid-majors fit that profile, but I do think MU would be considered a tier-2 program, where the "step-up" would be to the elite schools, a la IU.

[Ari Gold]

+1 to everything except maybe a coaching offer at the University of Texas. One could hardly fault him for wanting to return home.

I'm with you there. Unless its a major texas/southern program I think buzz stays in Milwaukee for good awhile.
Buzz is a family man with 4 kids that I believe are all under 8. Depending their ages if/when a major southern school job opens, he may not want to uproot them.
I think if he leaves MU it'll be at a point where he has done "everything he possibly could" at MU and he sees an opportunity to rebuild an above mentioned program.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He still left to go to a "better" program.  I would consider a program that is no longer considered a "stepping-stone" as Gonzaga, not Marquette...yet.  I know we all would like to think Buzz wants to stay here for a long time and I'm sure he does right now.  He has had a long, hard, strange trip to be a HC of a big conference school and I'm sure he is very happy to be here and we're more than happy to have him.  That said, if we have any degree of success in the last weekend of March/first weekend of April, I still believe coaches will think the grass is greener away from Marquette, especially a guy who is from Texas and has zero ties to the area.  I hope I'm wrong.  I'm a huge fan, but we have to be realistic.

True, but he left to go to one of the 5 winningest programs in history.  It's interesting you bring up Gonzaga.  If Few leaves to take the Oregon job, not exactly a heavyweight job, does that change your perception?


When I say not a stepping stone, I mean when coaches are leaving to go to a women's basketball school (Kevin O'Neill) or taking an assistant job for the Milwaukee Bucks....that's big time stepping stone.  Of course, when we're hiring the head coach from St. Peter's, that screams stepping stone as well.  I agree that there are always going to be better jobs than MU, no question about that.  It's when they leave for a lateral position that bothered me.

I don't have an issue when coaches are leaving for IU, KU, UK, UNC, UCLA.....it bugs the hell out of me when they are leaving for Tennessee.

[copious1218]

or taking an assistant job for the Milwaukee Bucks....that's big time stepping stone. 

So, Indiana is a stepping-stone? 

[HoopsMalone]

The battle for Branden Dawson could pit Crean, the homestate favorite from a better school, against Buzz.  The kid may choose neither (especially with Purdue and MUS in his backyard), but it would be interesting to see how the two would do going head to head.   

[Tugg Speedman]

As for Buzz, he has a different scenario...he's going to have to prove he can do it without Crean's players over the next few years.  If he does, then he'll be here for the long haul (hopefully, I'm sick of MU coaches leaving after 5 years).  If he doesn't, then he'll be gone, too.   

So now Cubes and Acker are "Crean's players?"  Their is only one Crean player on this team ... Lazar.  No one ever thought Acker and Cubes would give us this kind of production ... even Crean!

Besides Acker quit and came back so he is now officially one of Buzz's players.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, Indiana is a stepping-stone? 

LOL.  In that case, it's a life saver with a rope attached to it.  Sampson is criminal, can't believe the Bucks took him.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So now Cubes and Acker are "Crean's players?"  Their is only one Crean player on this team ... Lazar.  No one ever thought Acker and Cubes would give us this kind of production ... even Crean!

Besides Acker quit and came back so he is now officially one of Buzz's players.

I mean recruited and played for Crean....thus Crean's players. The coach who convinced them to come to MU and play for his program..."Crean's players".  Let's put it another way, they aren't at Marquette unless Tom Crean and his staff got them here, that's why I labeled them as such.  Let's not read too much into this as I'm sure you're already well on the way to doing.

And yes, you're right, as freshmen and sophomores they aren't playing as well as seniors....crazy how that is the case for most players.

[MUsoxfan]

Turns out Crean never considered Illinois. Why would he go house hunting if we was here for the long haul?
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/cusa/2003-04-22-crean-extension_x.htm

Buzz is a great guy, but just because he says he loves it at MU doesn't mean he won't be tempted if a KU or UK type job gets posted.

That article actually makes me hate him more.   I didn't think that was possible

[wojosdojo]

Once TC is out of his recruiting probation situation Sampson got him in I think he will start to really build the program back up again. However, I hope Buzz can stay as long as he can.

[NersEllenson]

He still left to go to a "better" program.  I would consider a program that is no longer considered a "stepping-stone" as Gonzaga, not Marquette...yet.  I know we all would like to think Buzz wants to stay here for a long time and I'm sure he does right now.  He has had a long, hard, strange trip to be a HC of a big conference school and I'm sure he is very happy to be here and we're more than happy to have him.  That said, if we have any degree of success in the last weekend of March/first weekend of April, I still believe coaches will think the grass is greener away from Marquette, especially a guy who is from Texas and has zero ties to the area.  I hope I'm wrong.  I'm a huge fan, but we have to be realistic.

Agree with the draw that Texas would have to Buzz, and could one day see him leaving MU to go back home.  That is realistic, and hard to fault a guy for that.  I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case.  Don't know that I agree that Gonzaga is a destination job, or not a stepping-stone program.  I think it is unique that Few has chosen to stay as long as he has, but let's face it - he's got a good gig and thing going.  The WCC is not that tough of conference, would he really want to compete in the Pac 10 or other BCS league?  As far as other coachings wanting to go to Gonzaga??  Don't see it being that attractive.  At least MU has the Big East, state of the art facilities, major urban environment, an ability to play pick up games agains professionals (Bucks) in the off season, play in a city that has an NBA team..and scouts in and out of Milwaukee consistently..etc.

[pbiflyer]

Once TC is out of his recruiting probation situation Sampson got him in I think he will start to really build the program back up again. However, I hope Buzz can stay as long as he can.

How does that have any impact?????
He was restricted a couple summers ago from some visits. Even II,II rescinded that after a bit. Oh yeah, they weren't allowed to go to a post season tourney last year. Not sure what tourney would have taken a 6 win team. They lost a scholarship the first year, which has since been reinstated.
Not sure how those severe penalities impacted his ability to recruit.

[mugrack]

TC, Buzz leaves after MU wins the NCAA championship in 2012

[wojosdojo]

Well whatever those probations are and for it says they stand for 3 years dating back to  2008.