Tan Tommy Watch

[LCDutchman]

Well its started.  Folks in Hoosierland are calling for a buyout of the Tan One.  Seems that unlike some of his old equipment managers they don't like the don't ask don't tell treatment when your 9 and 100.  The real question is whether Pat or Bob Knight will be the new coach in 2010-2011. 

[ErickJD08]

Well its started.  Folks in Hoosierland are calling for a buyout of the Tan One.  Seems that unlike some of his old equipment managers they don't like the don't ask don't tell treatment when your 9 and 100.  The real question is whether Pat or Bob Knight will be the new coach in 2010-2011. 

Link...?

[MU1984]

Wow.  I'm not a huge fan of Crean, but can someone kill this thread please?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Link...?

LOL.  Yeah, it started on a message board.  This goes up there with the Fire Bruce Weber websites that have been around for about 5 years.  It's funny watching a few of the MU posters here over on the IU website posing at IU fans.  Entertaining.

[TallTitan34]

IU fans would want a second year coach fired if they made the tourny but missed a National Championship.  This isn't surprising.

[ChicosBailBonds]

IU fans would want a second year coach fired if they made the tourny but missed a National Championship.  This isn't surprising.

Correction, some lunatic IU fans would want that, but not most.

Just as some MU fans think the 2nd winningest coach in MU history couldn't coach or recruit and just happened to be the 2nd winningest coach because of some combination of cosmic rays and pixie dust.

Some Packer fans want McCarthy fired.   The only thing that matters is what the folks on the inside want and know.

[MU1984]

The only thing that matters is what the folks on the inside with the money want.

Fixed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fixed.

Yes, that always plays a big big part.

[TomW1365]

Reporter:  "Why do did you take the job at Indiana?"
Crean:  "Because it's Indiana."

Reporter:  "Why did you get fired after two years at Indiana?"
Crean:  "Because it's Indiana."


For the record, while I don't want to get into Crean's personality/coaching attributes vs drawbacks, I think he'll do great at Indiana if given the time.  That program had a nuclear bomb wipe out everything in it's path... I think the fans have a case of brain damage from the radiation.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

That program is an absolute shell of its former self.

Honestly, can you imagine Indiana (!) aspiring to be Michigan State in the Big Ten? That's what's happened. Indiana dreams of being Michigan State...that's heresy in Bloomington!

Chicos -- I know you have faith in the guy, but there is absolutely no way they're going to be a top notch Big Ten team for the foreseeable future. MSU, Illinois, Wisconsin, Purdue...why would a big time recruit want to go to Indiana and get cornholed every game and then go to practice and play for an assh*le like Crean? You think the guys on the team right now are selling that program to recruits?

Crean made a huge, huge mistake taking that job and it is an absolute delight to watch him struggle so badly that his buddy Izzo is pleading for patience.

I believe that it's not so much performance that has fans beginning to question Crean, but they're quickly becoming wise to his actual personality!!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

This goes up there with the Fire Bruce Weber websites that have been around for about 5 years. 

Or Randy Moss to the Packers rumors

[Dr. Blackheart]

My understanding is Crean's buy-out for termination without cause until the completion of Year 5 is only $3mm, and will then reduce by $600k per year there after.  IU would be crazy to cut him loose until after year 5.  Who else would take that job?  

Crean needs to add a recruiter with a network.  McLeod was supposed to be that guy but he isn't getting it done.  Rumors of transfers out are swirling.  Decker is even questioning CTC with soft language.  Tough situation with a couple of key injuries to add to his woes this year.  IU is, at best, the 4th best team in Indiana right now.  

Like KO, I am guessing there are second thoughts in the Crean household about leaving Milwaukee.  If the B11 expands to SU, PU, Mizzu or Texas, the hill gets steeper for Crean in hoops.  Yet, he wanted this challenge.  

Also just a point of clarification Chicos on this quote:  Just as some MU fans think the 2nd winningest coach in MU history couldn't coach or recruit and just happened to be the 2nd winningest coach because of some combination of cosmic rays and pixie dust." 

In fact, Crean has the 3rd most wins behind Al and Hickey as a head coach, not counting Rick and Hank as assistants.  And he is 5th in winning percentage, just ahead of Deane (granted with KO's players).  While many try to diminish his contributions, let's not over inflate them either.  He was a very good coach for MU but he was a better cheerleader. 

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/coaches

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

IU is, at best, the 4th best team in Indiana right now.  

That's one of the things that surprised me the most about the move. I think he made at best a lateral move in terms of a) conference capability and a worse move in terms of b) recruiting competition. Crean finished 4th to 6th in the BE ... about the top 3rd. I just don't see him winning B11 championships. I could be wrong but I think he'll probably be 3-4th at best on an average year. But maybe more than that, Indiana has to be one of the two or three toughest states in the country for college basketball. Fierce competition for recruits. Maybe he can pull it off, but there is more than one serious in-state program now to compete for the same pool of recruits.

[mu_hilltopper]

In fact, Crean has the 3rd most wins behind Al and Hickey as a head coach, not counting Rick and Hank as assistants.  And he is 5th in winning percentage, just ahead of Deane (granted with KO's players).  While many try to diminish his contributions, let's not over inflate them either.  He was a very good coach for MU but he was a better cheerleader. 

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/coaches

Hmm .. did you mean Bill Chandler?

Win count:
McGuire : 295
Bill Chandler : 193
Crean: 165
Raymonds: 126
Deane: 100
Murray: 94
Hickey: 92

[Dr. Blackheart]

Hmm .. did you mean Bill Chandler?

Win count:
McGuire : 295
Bill Chandler : 193
Crean: 165
Raymonds: 126
Deane: 100
Murray: 94
Hickey: 92

   Yes, Chandler...mine eyes deceive me.  Thanks

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

What I find fantastically ironic is that Indiana would have been much better off hiring Buzz Williams. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What I find fantastically ironic is that Indiana would have been much better off hiring Buzz Williams. 

You might be right, but let's also keep in mind it's only been 18 months.

TC is no Coach K (nor will he ever be), but Coach K had some very lean years at Duke before the program got going.

Buzz is great, and I'm glad MU has him. But, it's probably too early to tell who is the better coach.

Hell, Mike Deane looked great for 2-3 years and then stumbled pretty badly.

I know you guys WANT TC to fail, but it's probably a little too early to be piling dirt on his coaching grave.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That program is an absolute shell of its former self.

Honestly, can you imagine Indiana (!) aspiring to be Michigan State in the Big Ten? That's what's happened. Indiana dreams of being Michigan State...that's heresy in Bloomington!

Chicos -- I know you have faith in the guy, but there is absolutely no way they're going to be a top notch Big Ten team for the foreseeable future. MSU, Illinois, Wisconsin, Purdue...why would a big time recruit want to go to Indiana and get cornholed every game and then go to practice and play for an assh*le like Crean? You think the guys on the team right now are selling that program to recruits?

Crean made a huge, huge mistake taking that job and it is an absolute delight to watch him struggle so badly that his buddy Izzo is pleading for patience.

I believe that it's not so much performance that has fans beginning to question Crean, but they're quickly becoming wise to his actual personality!!

It's not so much that I have faith in the guy, but it's what I know of the situation there.  It was basically the death penalty so they're starting from scratch.  This is why he got a 10 year deal.

But yes, I do believe he'll get it going there.  If you can succeed at Marquette and do something here that hasn't been done in 30 years, he is certainly capable of it at Indiana.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What I find fantastically ironic is that Indiana would have been much better off hiring Buzz Williams. 

Awfully early in the process to be making that kind of statement.  And if IU had hired Buzz Williams there would have been a revolt on the IU campus.  His hiring would have been impossible

[ChicosBailBonds]

Blackheart, you are correct.  I should have said the 2nd most successful coach in MU history.  Chandler had 3 more wins but had a losing record at 193-198.

Crean is the only other coach to take us to a Final Four other than Al
Has the second most post season appearances
3rd best winning percentage for a coach that was around at least 3 years

[NersEllenson]

Blackheart, you are correct.  I should have said the 2nd most successful coach in MU history.  Chandler had 3 more wins but had a losing record at 193-198.

Crean is the only other coach to take us to a Final Four other than Al
Has the second most post season appearances
3rd best winning percentage for a coach that was around at least 3 years

Dwayne Wade took MU to the Final Four.  End of story.  And Crean wasn't even his primary recruiter - Kowalycz identified D-Wade.  Lastly, if Crean were any kind of coach, he would have found a way to slow the bleeding and NOT have us get humiliated and embarrased at the Final Four. 

[MU B2002]

Dwayne Wade took MU to the Final Four. 

But Diener took us to the Sweet Sixteen.   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Dwayne Wade took MU to the Final Four.  End of story.  And Crean wasn't even his primary recruiter - Kowalycz identified D-Wade.  Lastly, if Crean were any kind of coach, he would have found a way to slow the bleeding and NOT have us get humiliated and embarrased at the Final Four. 

C'mon.

Where do you draw the line with this?

If MU makes the final 4 this year because Lazar goes nuclear, does Buzz get credit? I say yes. You'd say yes.

Why does that change when you say "wade" and "TC"?

[TomW1365]

Dwayne Wade took MU to the Final Four.  End of story.  And Crean wasn't even his primary recruiter - Kowalycz identified D-Wade.  Lastly, if Crean were any kind of coach, he would have found a way to slow the bleeding and NOT have us get humiliated and embarrased at the Final Four. 

Yeesh... did Tom Crean steal your girlfriend?

[tower912]

Wade won 1 game in that tournament, the Kentucky game.   Diener carried us the first two rounds and Novak going off saved us against Mizzou.   Crean was hired at IU because he had a track record of running a clean program, of promoting the hell out of that clean program, going to a FF, and surpassing expectations when MU joined the BEast.   The powers that be wanted the anti-Sampson, anti-Davis.    They got it.   He has basically STARTED A PROGRAM FROM SCRATCH in one of the lower tier   BCS basketball conferences.   And he is doing it in the crucible of some of the most rabid fans in all of college hoops.   He is going to be there awhile, and he is going to have success.   IMO, he doesn't win a B10 title, NCAA championship, or even FF for several years, if at all.  He could catch lighning in a bottle again, though.     But at worst, he cleans things up and lays the groundwork for somebody who will take them back to a top 5 program.    He did good things at MU.    What he is going through now is karma/punishment enough for how he left.   Let the man be.