Mike Shaw from Chicago...are we recruiting this kid?

[reinko]

I don't know why you would say that?

Christ, it's the cast of the Children of the Corn movies all grown up.

[dennycrane]

If you're looking for a real answer then read this regarding Blackshear and Shaw.  Two peas in a pod.

There is a lot of ignorance and not so subtle racism on display in this thread.

Shaw has ties to the Irvins. Vander has ties to Auriential. The high ground remains unoccupied.

[MarkMiller]

Marquette remains involved with Mike Shaw.

[Skatastrophy]

There is a lot of ignorance and not so subtle racism on display in this thread.

Why did you quote me when you said that?  I did nothing except link the article that BMA had referenced earlier in the thread.

There's not "subtle racism" on display, either.  It's just a function of a ridiculously politically correct society that we can't say that Bo Ryan signs a lot more white kids than black kids.  It's the truth.  Who knows why?  Maybe Bo just doesn't get along with kids from cities with more than 30k residents?

The only high ground is that Bo recruits shady kids just like every high major coach including Buzz.  It's part of the game.  People dwelling on how shady the NCAA is and claiming their team doesn't recruit kids with handlers is either from Alverno, is lying to others or is lying to themselves.

[GGGG]

Why did you quote me when you said that?  I did nothing except link the article that BMA had referenced earlier in the thread.

There's not "subtle racism" on display, either. 

There is more than subtle racism going on...it is pretty blatant.  There's the implication that white basketball players cannot play the game as well.  And then there is Ners ridiculous comment:

  I wish Buzz Williams would only recruit white kids from Northern Wisconsin and Minnesota who are high school players that haven't had to endure challenged childhoods, fractured homes, multiple moves to different school districts, etc.  Only then could we satisfy our elite UW fan base.

I guess white kids don't endure challenged childhoods and come from fractured homes.

Don't get me wrong.  The Badger Board's superiority complex with regards to junior college transfers is annoying, but these type of threads make us look bad.

[ChicosBailBonds]

There is more than subtle racism going on...it is pretty blatant.  There's the implication that white basketball players cannot play the game as well.  And then there is Ners ridiculous comment:

I guess white kids don't endure challenged childhoods and come from fractured homes.

Don't get me wrong.  The Badger Board's superiority complex with regards to junior college transfers is annoying, but these type of threads make us look bad.

Whoa, I don't think that's the implication at all.  White basketball players can play just as African American or anyone else.  Where did anyone say white players couldn't ball?

There is really no doubt, however, that there is perception out there exists that Duke, UW-Madison, Vanderbilt and a few others seem to have a high majority of players from suburban America and that looks different than other college teams.

Doesn't mean it's bad or wrong or anything else, but that is the perception.  So much so, that it's been a topic of conversation on their message boards of those schools for years, including UW-madison's.  Just look at the Vander Blue and Wes Matthews recruiting threads of years past and it's brought up all the time by their own fans.

[NersEllenson]

There is more than subtle racism going on...it is pretty blatant.  There's the implication that white basketball players cannot play the game as well.  And then there is Ners ridiculous comment:

I guess white kids don't endure challenged childhoods and come from fractured homes.

Don't get me wrong.  The Badger Board's superiority complex with regards to junior college transfers is annoying, but these type of threads make us look bad.

- As for my ridiculous comment, it was in response to badgerbutch's statement calling into question MU having signed kids from Christian Life Academy (Cadougan), kids who have played professionally (Mbao), and JUCO's.  Basically, badgerbutch was comparing MU's recruits to UW's recruits (who are predominately white.)  I never said white kids can't ball.  But rather, responding to Badgerbutch who painted MU in a bad light with regard to who they recruit.  And yes, Sultan, of course white kids can come from fractured homes and challenged childhoods, but let's be real for a minute and acknowledge far more black kids come from more challenging enviornments, than do most white kids.  You can't dispute that, and there is nothing racist about it.  By Butch's standards and other UW fans, MU will only live up to "its level," once we recruit predominately white, suburban, or rural kids. 

[GGGG]

Whoa, I don't think that's the implication at all.  White basketball players can play just as African American or anyone else.  Where did anyone say white players couldn't ball?

There is really no doubt, however, that there is perception out there exists that Duke, UW-Madison, Vanderbilt and a few others seem to have a high majority of players from suburban America and that looks different than other college teams.

Doesn't mean it's bad or wrong or anything else, but that is the perception.  So much so, that it's been a topic of conversation on their message boards of those schools for years, including UW-madison's.  Just look at the Vander Blue and Wes Matthews recruiting threads of years past and it's brought up all the time by their own fans.

Oh please Chicos.  The digs at UW's predominantly white basketball team by many on this board and their lack of "athleticism" are basically racist statements.

- As for my ridiculous comment, it was in response to badgerbutch's statement calling into question MU having signed kids from Christian Life Academy (Cadougan), kids who have played professionally (Mbao), and JUCO's.  Basically, badgerbutch was comparing MU's recruits to UW's recruits (who are predominately white.)  I never said white kids can't ball.  But rather, responding to Badgerbutch who painted MU in a bad light with regard to who they recruit.  And yes, Sultan, of course white kids can come from fractured homes and challenged childhoods, but let's be real for a minute and acknowledge far more black kids come from more challenging enviornments, than do most white kids.  You can't dispute that, and there is nothing racist about it.  By Butch's standards and other UW fans, MU will only live up to "its level," once we recruit predominately white, suburban, or rural kids. 

Making blanket statements about racial groups, and applying them to individuals within the racial group without really knowing their background, is pretty much the definition of racism.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oh please Chicos.  The digs at UW's predominantly white basketball team by many on this board and their lack of "athleticism" are basically racist statements.

Sorry, I don't see it.  First you said they couldn't play basketball, now you're changing to athleticism.  On the basketball front, I'd disagree with you completely.  UW-madison has a very good team.  I've argued here that they are the best team we've played all year.  The athleticism part is a different argument which you seem to be changing the criteria on.

[Pakuni]

There is more than subtle racism going on...it is pretty blatant.  There's the implication that white basketball players cannot play the game as well. 

The Racist Manifesto:

http://www.nba.com/players/

Keep fighting the power!

[GGGG]

The Racist Manifesto:

http://www.nba.com/players/

Keep fighting the power!

So let me guess your logic...

-There are more black NBA players than white ones (Me: Yep)
-There are more white guys on UW-Madison's roster than the typical college team  (Me: Yep)
-Therefore UW-Madison's players aren't as good.  (Me:  Nope)

But the last point is the one that is consistently alluded as truth by this group.  Otherwise why keep posting pictures of all the white Wisconsin basketball players???

[Pakuni]

So let me guess your logic...

-There are more black NBA players than white ones (Me: Yep)
-There are more white guys on UW-Madison's roster than the typical college team  (Me: Yep)
-Therefore UW-Madison's players aren't as good.  (Me:  Nope)

But the last point is the one that is consistently alluded as truth by this group.  Otherwise why keep posting pictures of all the white Wisconsin basketball players???

Uhhh ... no, oh mesiter of the straw man.
My logic ... it's stupid to state that one is racist - as you did - because they "imply" that white kids don't play the game as well.
Either the NBA is an example of Affirmative Action run amok... or, well, you know.

[reinko]

Prejudgements, assumptions, double standards even when based on race are not racism Sultan.  It's dangerous to call every comment made about someone race, joke or not, racist.  It diminshes the word.  The comments, including my own about the team looking like the Children of Corn movies grown up, are at the very worst a bit insensitive.

These statements can lead to racism, but on their own, they are not racist.

You may argue semantics, but racism is deeply rooted, where someone with power, is using that power to oppress an individual based on their race.

So who is the oppressed in this instance?  Is it you?  Are comments like these keeping you from doing something?  I would argue no, but who knows.

You did bring up a good point about the double standards that currently exist in our society, but that is a different topic for a different day.

[GGGG]

Uhhh ... no, oh mesiter of the straw man.
My logic ... it's stupid to state that one is racist - as you did - because they "imply" that white kids don't play the game as well.
Either the NBA is an example of Affirmative Action run amok... or, well, you know.

Oy....you again are failing.

It is obvious that blacks in general play basketball better than whites do.  However, it is racism to say (or imply) that because of that fact, that Wisconsin's players can't play basketball as well.  When you take macro statements, and apply them to at the micro levels, that is when you get into trouble.

It is the same thing as police who racially profile.  Just because a higher percentage of blacks are convicted of crimes versus whites, doesn't mean that the black guy pulled over by the cops is a criminal.

Prejudgements, assumptions, double standards even when based on race are not racism Sultan.  It's dangerous to call every comment made about someone race, joke or not, racist.  It diminshes the word.  The comments, including my own about the team looking like the Children of Corn movies grown up, are at the very worst a bit insensitive.

It is semantics, but racism isn't necessarily bigotry.  Racism, as I understand and have used the term, is when you make generalities about members of racial groups.  Bigotry is when the racism feeds hatred.

I am certain that no one here hates Wisconsin basketball players because they are white.  But for people to continue to post multiple pictures in a mocking way of Wisconsin's white basketball players, is almost the definition of racism.  For people to then say "there's no subtle racism going on," is completely disingenuous.


Edit:  And for everyone's sake, I'm just going to drop it right here.

[Pakuni]

Oy....you again are failing.

It is obvious that blacks in general play basketball better than whites do.  However, it is racism to say (or imply) that because of that fact, that Wisconsin's players can't play basketball as well.  When you take macro statements, and apply them to at the micro levels, that is when you get into trouble.

Speaking of failing ... please point anywhere in this thread someone said (or implied) that Wisconsin's players can't play as well.

You've invented a huge straw man here, arguing strenuously  - and self-righteously, I might add - against a position no one has taken.

[GGGG]

Speaking of failing ... please point anywhere in this thread someone said (or implied) that Wisconsin's players can't play as well.

"You definitely get a "Upp-er" feel when looking at their roster.... not that there's anything wrong with some fellow white homie's overachieving under bo's great tutelage. 

It really is mind boggling Bo can get that group to shut down an MSU even if it is at the Kohl Center."

[dennycrane]

Why did you quote me when you said that?  I did nothing except link the article that BMA had referenced earlier in the thread.

There's not "subtle racism" on display, either.  It's just a function of a ridiculously politically correct society that we can't say that Bo Ryan signs a lot more white kids than black kids.  It's the truth.  Who knows why?  Maybe Bo just doesn't get along with kids from cities with more than 30k residents?

The only high ground is that Bo recruits shady kids just like every high major coach including Buzz.  It's part of the game.  People dwelling on how shady the NCAA is and claiming their team doesn't recruit kids with handlers is either from Alverno, is lying to others or is lying to themselves.

Blackshear and Shaw are quite different. Point out the similarities other than both playing for the same Chicago based aau machine?

What eactly is shady with Shaw?

There is no doubt there is racisim in this thread. Reverse racism is more easily tolerated but it is racism non the less. From your position you would have no problem with somone pointing out the MU has all black players and using that to paint the program in a negative light? You can't have it both ways.

[Pakuni]

There is no doubt there is racisim in this thread. Reverse racism is more easily tolerated but it is racism non the less. From your position you would have no problem with somone pointing out the MU has all black players and using that to paint the program in a negative light? You can't have it both ways.

I'm black?

[GGGG]

He didn't mean because you're black...he meant because you're a MU fan.

[Silky]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=5642486

Is Tokoto out of the picture for the Badgers now?  A few of the chief Bo-bots are saying he's not that good.  Reads like the similar poor reviews of previous players who didn't go on to play for Bo.  I expect next to hear about Wes Mathews somehow talking about academics that these guys are all privy to.  It's all in the manual.

[BCHoopster]

Silky, lets be serious.  Tokoto is only 16 years old and a sophmore in high school.  All kids at that
age need improvement.  Even DWade needed improvement which he did even he was 21 years old.
This kid has the physical tools, you can not teach him how to jump.  God given.  I am sure Coach Cal,
Coach K, Bo and Buzz see something special here.  I am just hoping he stays in the state!

[Skatastrophy]

Blackshear and Shaw are quite different. Point out the similarities other than both playing for the same Chicago based aau machine?

What eactly is shady with Shaw?

Next time read the article that I linked in my post that you had originally quoted.  It explained that Shaw's recruitment is shady in the exact same way that Blackshear's recruitment is.  Please read before getting self-righteously indignant next time.

[dennycrane]

Next time read the article that I linked in my post that you had originally quoted.  It explained that Shaw's recruitment is shady in the exact same way that Blackshear's recruitment is.  Please read before getting self-righteously indignant next time.

It says there is a power struggle between the Irvins and Shaws brother to control his recruiting. Shaw has never transfered in high school like Blackshear. IIRC Blackshear plays for one of the Irvins now. It is just as likely the brother is trying to get control of things for the right reasons. Do you have information contrary to that?

If your problem is with the Irvins aau machine why are you not concerned that Smith came out of that program?

[Bob "Big Daddy" Wild]

Marquette remains involved with Mike Shaw.

Thank you Mark.

I would love to get this kid.  De La Salle is a decent school too folks, and as (I believe) Bulls Eye Brothers mentioned, him not transferring to a public school shows somthing.

[Danny Noonan]

There is has an article about Shaw today in the Chicago Sum Times (I couldn't locate the on-line link) in which Shaw relates he is undecided but has received offers from Wisconsin, Illinois, Purdue, Louisville, Texas , Kansas, Michigan State, Kentucky, and De Paul (no mention of Marquette). Shaw goes on to quote Rick Pitino in the article and states that he and Morgan Park's Wayne Blackshear are like brothers.

Let's hope Shaw doesn't follow Blackshear to Louisville.