Crowder with 28 and 14 last night

[MUfan12]

http://www.mywesttexas.com/articles/2010/02/16/sports/top_stories/doc4b7a376a3bb88241259243.txt

Howard handed #1 Midland their first loss last night.

[Lighthouse 84]

Nice to see he knocked down 4-4 from deep and 6-8 from the line.

[KCmastapeace]

I'll take Crowder at 6'6 anyday if he plays with the intensity and passion that I think he will.  Sounds like a beast and the fact that he has dreads makes him even cooler! 

[VegasWarrior77]

It's cool the opposing coach considers Crowder the best player in junior college:

Hodge, who considers Crowder as the best player in the NJCAA, said this was just a typical night for him.

[StillWarriors]

Nice to see he knocked down 4-4 from deep and 6-8 from the line.

Hitting threes and 14 boards...sounds a lot like a Lazar stat line.

[Ready2Fly]

I don't know why there was such a backlash regarding this signing anyway. There is no reason to doubt Buzz when it comes to high level JUCO recruits. Until he signs one that completely flops like a Blackledge or Lott, he has my trust. I'm not expecting the world of Crowder next year, but if he can provide 20-25 mpg and average somewhere along the lines of 8 & 5, with added contributions from Erik Williams at the position, his presence will significantly soften the blow of Hayward's departure.

[bma725]

I don't know why there was such a backlash regarding this signing anyway. There is no reason to doubt Buzz when it comes to high level JUCO recruits. Until he signs one that completely flops like a Blackledge or Lott, he has my trust. I'm not expecting the world of Crowder next year, but if he can provide 20-25 mpg and average somewhere along the lines of 8 & 5, with added contributions from Erik Williams at the position, his presence will significantly soften the blow of Hayward's departure.

The backlash wasn't so much because of Crowder specifically, it was because of how the last two scholarships were used.  With a need for legit size inside, Buzz got a 2 and an undersized 3/4.  That makes a lot of people very upset.

If Crowder committed and the other scholarship was still open allowing it to go to a legit big man, then there would have been no backlash other than from the JUCO hating contigent.

[NersEllenson]

The backlash wasn't so much because of Crowder specifically, it was because of how the last two scholarships were used.  With a need for legit size inside, Buzz got a 2 and an undersized 3/4.  That makes a lot of people very upset.

If Crowder committed and the other scholarship was still open allowing it to go to a legit big man, then there would have been no backlash other than from the JUCO hating contigent.

- Who would you have liked to seen MU land with these last 2 scholarships - as far as non-project big men that were available?  There is no denying MU needs size, but...if you can land 2 players (Newbill and Crowder) who appear to have definite immediate impact (at least Crowder anyway) and also have Otule with 3 years of availability left - should we have passed on either Crowder or Newbill?  Both sound like really good "gets," and after we didn't land Tarik Black, did/do we really stand a chance with any other skilled big man that would be any less of a project than Otule or Mbao?

[Big Papi]

Are we really that small next year?  We get Otule and Yous back and hopefully both are improved.  Butler has good length that can go after a 3/4.  Crowder at 6"6" sounds like he can bang a little inside and get on the boards.  Jones, Blue and Smith all bring more length and athleticism at the guard positions when compared to Acker and Cooby.  EWill is 6'8" and will get playing time next year at the 4.  Jr and Fulce have good size for their positions.  Overall, we may be a tad small but if Crowder and Ewill can step next year, I don't think height will be a problem. 

I think if Buzz would have landed Tarik Black, everyone would have been thrilled but I believe short-term, if you compared Crowder to Black, Crowder would have the bigger impact next year and that's ok because it gives Buzz another year to find a hopefully better version of Tarik Black that can step in and make an impact right away.

[Blackhat]

Ray Turner looked real good for A&M last night.   Unfortunate we missed on him. 

[bma725]

- Who would you have liked to seen MU land with these last 2 scholarships - as far as non-project big men that were available?  There is no denying MU needs size, but...if you can land 2 players (Newbill and Crowder) who appear to have definite immediate impact (at least Crowder anyway) and also have Otule with 3 years of availability left - should we have passed on either Crowder or Newbill?

At this point, I don't think you can count on Otule to stay healthy for the next three years after not having been healthy the previous two.  They may have been freak injuries, but regardless of how they occur when big men start to get foot issues they almost never go away...see Kinsella, Mike.  You've got to have another body to throw in there besides Mbao who will still have be thin and a project next year as well.

Both sound like really good "gets," and after we didn't land Tarik Black, did/do we really stand a chance with any other skilled big man that would be any less of a project than Otule or Mbao?

Plenty of guys out there that aren't as much a prospect as those guys that we have recruited/are recruiting and have a chance at getting Aziz N'Diaye, Davante Gardner, etc.  Even Reggie Murphy is less of a project than Mbao.

There's guys that we've been mentioned with but would take some work to get them, Maurice Walker, Kadeem Jack etc.

Plenty that we haven't been mentioned with but could get involved with:  Eloy Vargas, Beas Hamga, Andre Clark etc.

[wiscoave]

Hopefully, if/when Buzz lands a big man, it will be a high schooler, not a juco. It is simply my preference that Buzz recruit high school kids, develop them and turn them into great players that can win games. I honestly think some things are lost when Buzz goes the juco route: 1) who was the last juco that captivated the BE conference? the nation? 2) freshmen help give the school more of an identity than jucos do (years later, everyone knows where Durant, Melo and Oden went to school. Ten years from now, a lot of people will still remember).

I understand jucos are better prepared than 95% of all freshmen, but that's the decision you have to make; do you want to continue to be competitive and live year by year or do you want to "build?" In 5 years, I dont think any sophomore in h.s. will be talking about any of Buzz's jucos and saying to his h.s. coach "I want to go to MU because he went there and everything else seems to fit." Just not gonna happen. Vander Blue will do 10x more for the program than any of the jucos will do combined so long as Vander can be one of the top 5 frshmen in the BE next year.

[chapman]

Are we really that small next year?  We get Otule and Yous back and hopefully both are improved.  Butler has good length that can go after a 3/4.  Crowder at 6"6" sounds like he can bang a little inside and get on the boards.  Jones, Blue and Smith all bring more length and athleticism at the guard positions when compared to Acker and Cooby.  EWill is 6'8" and will get playing time next year at the 4.  Jr and Fulce have good size for their positions.  Overall, we may be a tad small but if Crowder and Ewill can step next year, I don't think height will be a problem. 

I think if Buzz would have landed Tarik Black, everyone would have been thrilled but I believe short-term, if you compared Crowder to Black, Crowder would have the bigger impact next year and that's ok because it gives Buzz another year to find a hopefully better version of Tarik Black that can step in and make an impact right away.

I worry most about rebounding. I know a lot of us believe that not turning the ball over has helped us overcome the huge rebounding deficits we've seen lately.  I  would expect the next-to-nothing turnover number to increase with the two senior guards leaving.  Are Otule/Yous/EWill/Crowder going to be able to step in and not only fill Lazar's shoes from a rebounding standpoint, but more than make up for it?  It's worrysome, expecially with Lazar the only one I really trust night in and night out to grab a good number of rebounds.

[MarquetteDano]

Hopefully, if/when Buzz lands a big man, it will be a high schooler, not a juco. It is simply my preference that Buzz recruit high school kids, develop them and turn them into great players that can win games. I honestly think some things are lost when Buzz goes the juco route: 1) who was the last juco that captivated the BE conference? the nation? 2) freshmen help give the school more of an identity than jucos do (years later, everyone knows where Durant, Melo and Oden went to school. Ten years from now, a lot of people will still remember).

I think many agree that four year players are preferred to JUCO's.  What also many have stated already here is that Buzz made it a major point to balance the classes, and that can only be done with redshirting, transfers, or JUCO's.  I don't think we were in the position to redshirt non-injured players so the options were limited.

Now that the classes are balanced, hopefully we will see less JUCO's.  Though, a transfer or injury may make Buzz go to the same well in the future.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Hopefully, if/when Buzz lands a big man, it will be a high schooler, not a juco. It is simply my preference that Buzz recruit high school kids, develop them and turn them into great players that can win games. I honestly think some things are lost when Buzz goes the juco route: 1) who was the last juco that captivated the BE conference? the nation? 2) freshmen help give the school more of an identity than jucos do (years later, everyone knows where Durant, Melo and Oden went to school. Ten years from now, a lot of people will still remember).

People remember where those players went to school because they were exceptional, rare talents, not because they were freshman. 

[flash]

Good for Crowder. It sounds like he can come in next year and contribute right a way.  Hats off to  buzz for finding another diamond in the ruff. 

[Marquette84]

- Who would you have liked to seen MU land with these last 2 scholarships - as far as non-project big men that were available?  There is no denying MU needs size, but...if you can land 2 players (Newbill and Crowder) who appear to have definite immediate impact (at least Crowder anyway) and also have Otule with 3 years of availability left - should we have passed on either Crowder or Newbill?  Both sound like really good "gets," and after we didn't land Tarik Black, did/do we really stand a chance with any other skilled big man that would be any less of a project than Otule or Mbao?

Dollars to doughnuts, by this time next year, it will be glaringly obvious to all that there were quality bigs that remained on the table as of early February 2010.

Waving it off under the premise that "all remaining bigs are projects" will be proven incorrect--just as it was last year.  Based on history there are decent bigs that sign in the spring every year.  I expect this year to be no different.

The issue isn't whether or not they exist.  Its a matter of finding them and then convincing one to come to your school.

By mid season 2010-11, some 6'10" frosh or Juco transfer that committed to another program after Crowder and Newbill committed to MU will be lighting it up for another team--perhaps even one of our opponents.  My guess is that there will be at least a half-dozen such players who will put up 20+ mpg, 10+ ppg and 8+ rpg.

Clearly we had a need for one of those players.  The MU staff either chose not to pursue them for whatever reason (too risky, bad/wrong evaluation, don't want a big in the lineup, etc.), or they did try to land one (or more) and failed.

[NersEllenson]

People remember where those players went to school because they were exceptional, rare talents, not because they were freshman. 

Agreed, and these type of players were pretty much 1 and done or 2 and done players (the same amount of time a JUCO would be at MU), furthermore most of those type of talents did get there teams to an Elite 8, Final Four, etc..which increased exposure.  If somehow our 2012 team (which would feature Crowder and DJO) were able to get to a Final Four, with those 2 players leading MU - we'd be remembered and attractive to both high-school recruits and JUCO's - the best of both worlds.

[RawdogDX]

I don't know why there was such a backlash regarding this signing anyway. There is no reason to doubt Buzz when it comes to high level JUCO recruits. Until he signs one that completely flops like a Blackledge or Lott, he has my trust. I'm not expecting the world of Crowder next year, but if he can provide 20-25 mpg and average somewhere along the lines of 8 & 5, with added contributions from Erik Williams at the position, his presence will significantly soften the blow of Hayward's departure.

because 6'6 < 6'8 and thus scoopers = 

[NersEllenson]

Dollars to doughnuts, by this time next year, it will be glaringly obvious to all that there were quality bigs that remained on the table as of early February 2010.

Waving it off under the premise that "all remaining bigs are projects" will be proven incorrect--just as it was last year.  Based on history there are decent bigs that sign in the spring every year.  I expect this year to be no different.

The issue isn't whether or not they exist.  Its a matter of finding them and then convincing one to come to your school.

By mid season 2010-11, some 6'10" frosh or Juco transfer that committed to another program after Crowder and Newbill committed to MU will be lighting it up for another team--perhaps even one of our opponents.  My guess is that there will be at least a half-dozen such players who will put up 20+ mpg, 10+ ppg and 8+ rpg.

Clearly we had a need for one of those players.  The MU staff either chose not to pursue them for whatever reason (too risky, bad/wrong evaluation, don't want a big in the lineup, etc.), or they did try to land one (or more) and failed.

For the purposes of tracking, let's use the below big-men BMA (who seems to be most knowledgeable about MU basketball recruiting) mentioned as MU possibly being in on, or others who were available after the Crowder and Newbill signings.  Lastly, sometimes in life we don't always get what we want or try for..we just do our best - and I'm sure this coaching staff did its best to get a quality big, but ultimately chose to go the Newbill/Crowder route as they saw that as the best move.  Let's let it play out and see how it works out..I have a feeling Buzz has assembled the most talented MU roster for next year that I've ever seen in my 27 years of being a fan.  We'll see what these below guys do, and then we can also contrast their numbers with Otule's and Crowders.

Aziz N'Diaye,
Davante Gardner,
Reggie Murphy

There's guys that we've been mentioned with but would take some work to get them, Maurice Walker, Kadeem Jack etc.

Plenty that we haven't been mentioned with but could get involved with:  Eloy Vargas, Beas Hamga, Andre Clark etc.

[wiscoave]

I guess we'll have to agree that we disagree.

It's essentially the media that chooses which players on great teams they want to build up the most. Im not sure a juco would work really well as a "media darling" because he isnt going to be 18 years old and schooling 21/22 year olds on the court.

Furthermore, my hope is that the juco thing is just temporary. And to be completely honest, i would FAR prefer a final four trip without jucos than with (but that's just me).

And regarding big men and people on here that post about the recruiting of them: It's amusing to read comments about big men we missed out on. I think the last one was DeShontey Riley. After he dropped us, so many people here said that he was "lazy," "had no work ethic" and will "end up at Detroit-Mercy in a year or two." Im sorry, but I didnt know the program was at the point of picking and choosing their 7 footers. I would think that if he was good enough for Syracuse, he was good enough for us. Apparently most here disagree.  

[avid1010]

The backlash wasn't so much because of Crowder specifically, it was because of how the last two scholarships were used.  With a need for legit size inside, Buzz got a 2 and an undersized 3/4.  That makes a lot of people very upset.

If Crowder committed and the other scholarship was still open allowing it to go to a legit big man, then there would have been no backlash other than from the JUCO hating contigent.

I didn't see the backlash that I thought I would.  I believe you even stated, probably in jest, that this board would need to be closed down if we went with Crowder.  Buzz has us competitive this year with a very small line-up, and I think that helps him justify what he's doing.  I won't deny that I would have liked to have seen more height in the class.  

Out of curiosity, what MU recruit would you take off the current list if forced to do so?  Having no real prior knowledge of these recruits, and the build-up that comes with every commitment, they all seem like good prospects.  

[NersEllenson]

And regarding big men and people on here that post about the recruiting of them: It's amusing to read comments about big men we missed out on. I think the last one was DeShontey Riley. After he dropped us, so many people here said that he was "lazy," "had no work ethic" and will "end up at Detroit-Mercy in a year or two." Im sorry, but I didnt know the program was at the point of picking and choosing their 7 footers. I would think that if he was good enough for Syracuse, he was good enough for us. Apparently most here disagree.  

Well, he is averaging 2.2 points per game for Syracuse this year - but as has been mentioned by MU84 - many of the bigs in last year's late signing period have allegedly put up decent numbers (10 pts/8 boards a game) this year as first year players - whether freshman or juco transfers.  That brings me to an interesting point -would we rather have DJO ( our late signing in last year's class) on this team and his playmaking and 12.5 points per game - or a big averging 10 points and 8 boards?

[dwaderoy2004]

By mid season 2010-11, some 6'10" frosh or Juco transfer that committed to another program after Crowder and Newbill committed to MU will be lighting it up for another team--perhaps even one of our opponents.  My guess is that there will be at least a half-dozen such players who will put up 20+ mpg, 10+ ppg and 8+ rpg.

That is just BS.  6 players in the spring that will put up 20+ minutes, 10+ ppg and 8+ rebounds per game in their first season?  You do realize that there are only 6 PF/C freshman in all of the ncaa's that put up those numbers right now: Cousins (Kentucky), Favors (GT), Whiteside (Marshall), Gallon (Okla), Kazemi (Rice) and Leonard (San diego St.).  And of those, only 3 are 6'10" and greater.  So you think this year, there will be 6 such players available in the spring?  Dream on, man.

[bma725]

And regarding big men and people on here that post about the recruiting of them: It's amusing to read comments about big men we missed out on. I think the last one was DeShontey Riley. After he dropped us, so many people here said that he was "lazy," "had no work ethic" and will "end up at Detroit-Mercy in a year or two." Im sorry, but I didnt know the program was at the point of picking and choosing their 7 footers. I would think that if he was good enough for Syracuse, he was good enough for us. Apparently most here disagree.  

To be fair, those comments were being said before he ever committed to Syracuse, and MU fans weren't the only ones making them.  National recruiting services and talent evaluators mentioned in pretty much every evaluation of the kid since he was 16 that he was lazy and played without passion.