What should be MU's next campus improvement priority?

[radome]

just a question... is the Varsity theatre still around?  If not, that building needs to GO.

Still there.  I don't think it is that bad though.  Why do you think it needs to go?  Location, look, interior?

[deep vacuum]

Still there.  I don't think it is that bad though.  Why do you think it needs to go?  Location, look, interior?

Varsity theater was renovated last summer and looks fantastic inside.  All the seating was reupholstered and the woodwork redone. The lower level (basement) now houses the music program offices and practice rooms.  The rest of the building (Holthusen) is in good structural shape.

[GGGG]

Depends what your definition of a long time is.  If it's 10-20 years, you are right.  20-30-40 years, I believe what I said.   When your product price increases outstrip inflation by large factors, outstrip income growth .. every single day that clicks by, the universe of your customers gets smaller.

But I think you are mistaken when you say that costs are what are what is driving up tuition.  My MU professors taught me that supply and demand is what determines your price point.  MU raises tuition beyond inflation because they can increase revenue by doing so.

Furthermore, since you are using donated money and since the cost of doing major projects is actually pretty low right now, this is a brilliant time for the school to improve its infrastructure.  Yes, new buildings cost money.  But new buildings are also generally cheaper to maintain.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Its not a quantity number of applicants issue, its a quality issue.  The true way for Marquette to fail the the mission is for the return on an MU diploma to go down.  Love it or hate it, in this sense it should be run like a fortune 500 company.  The other schools are going to continue to improve, and if you aren't getting better, you're getting worse.  Prestige really isn't fine where it is.  I mean, I guess I know law better than any other field, but its a nice example because there are explicit rankings that applicants all the way to firms actually follow.  With the exception of an aging Marquette mafia firmly established in mke, a MU law degree doesn't travel like it used to.  The overall return on it, compared to a law degree from other schools, has gone down.

You are correct...

but at some point, there is a diminishing return.

If/when MU costs 100K per year and hardly anybody can afford it, what will the diploma be worth then? MU won't be attracting the brightest kids, it will simply be attracting the kids who can afford it.

There is a breaking point.

I think MU does need to "keep up with the jones'", but also needs to think long and hard about what the school will look like in 20 years, and 40 years.

The well of families that can afford it isn't endless, and with the current approach, private schools are going to price themselves out of the market at some point.

MU doesn't need to stop, but probably needs to be smarter with what they are doing.

[bma725]

Curious .. maybe the collective knowledge of Scoop can help with a timeline.  It seems as if the last 10-20 years, MU has had an explosion of building.   How does that compare to prior decades?  Help fill in the blanks:

2000-2010 - Al Center, Law School, Library, Zilber, Dental School, McCabe Residence Hall, Engineering building
90s - New union, Cudahy Hall
80s - ??
70s - ??

The 1980s had the Haggerty Museum of Art(1984) and the Emory Clark Nursing Building(1981).

They had plans to build more, but changed their minds when Children's Hospital left the area and they bought all of CHW's old buildings.  That gave them one entire block of real estate that now accounts for Humphrey Hall, Academic Support, the Child Care Center, the Helfaer Building, a couple of surface parking lots, and the 18th street parking structure.  I believe they also got the 1700 building in that deal as well.

Not only that, but they bought the Biltmore Apartments(where Raynor is now), and remodeled Carpenter Hall(where Cudahy is now).

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Agree to most of the above. construction costs are down considerably from personal experience both in my home and corporate building. contractors are  looking for work and now is the time to expand if the money is there... MU is in danger of pricing itself out of the market but demand is not likely to go down soon. State schools are inundated with candidiates and private colleges are getting the benefit of those who can't get in.The key will be the ability to offer scholarships to eligible students. hence the calls from  MU and the school I sent my kids to out here asking for doantions to schollie funds. $40k a year may be the tipping point for most middle class families. Just my riff on the subject

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Not a COB grad, are you?

Actually no, Arts and Sciences.

[Clam Crowder]

I 'love' the "we need a new rec center" people. I heard that throughout the time I was there (03-08). People would point to the new MSOE facilities downtown.

I really never understood it. Is your workout experience better if you run on a treadmill in a more pretty building versus a less pretty building?

Topper is correct ... if Marquette, or any other private university really want to think about the future, they need to think about cost containment. Not, "How many pretty buildings and new self-serving bureaucracies can we create on students' dimes?"

It's not the building that is being complained about. It is the fact that when we go there we very often can't find room on the basketball courts, or even on treadmills at times. The look of the building is not what is being discussed, but rather that fact that it does not seem to be sufficient for the amount of people going there

[GGGG]

The 1980s had the Haggerty Museum of Art(1984) and the Emory Clark Nursing Building(1981).

They had plans to build more, but changed their minds when Children's Hospital left the area and they bought all of CHW's old buildings.  That gave them one entire block of real estate that now accounts for Humphrey Hall, Academic Support, the Child Care Center, the Helfaer Building, a couple of surface parking lots, and the 18th street parking structure.  I believe they also got the 1700 building in that deal as well.

I believe the Olin Engineering Center was also in the 80s.

[bma725]

I believe the Olin Engineering Center was also in the 80s.

Olin was in 1978.

[KipsBayEagle]

Adding new buildings doesn't up the cost of a students tuition.  These buildings are built on credit, they are paid upfront with donor money.  the cost to maintain and heat/cool these buildings is actually usually cheaper than the older ones they are replacing(brought up in an earlier post).  Marquettes price will naturally go up over time, as will every school in the country.  That being said, it is till amongst the cheapest private schools in the country, and is still considered a "best buy" school by multiple accredited ranking services.  The truth is, Marquette MUST invest in buildings.  Much of the campus is still outdated.  residence halls are pretty terrible, and is compounded by the fact that you must live in them for 2 years.  The buisness school, science labs, and laulemiere are hideous.  Villanova, georgetown, Notre dame, the schools we are trying to emulate in many ways, would rip our facilities to shreds.  Throw on top of this the 800 pound gorilla in the room, the climate, and Marquette must improve its buildings continually.  While affordability is important, is much better for the student as well as the university to increase tuition if it means increasing the value of a degree.  paying an extra 4 grand a year for 4 years is quickly nullified if you make an extra 4 grand a year for the rest of your life post Marquette.

[martyconlonontherun]

So many awful building to be torn down and replaced... so little time.

Things that do NOT need to be replaced:
Rec Center
CoB building


Things to seriously consider tearing down...
McCormick Hall
Lalumiere


just a question... is the Varsity theatre still around?  If not, that building needs to GO.

I never understood why Lalumiere needed to be torn down. I think it's functional, just an eyesore. Whereas McCormick, is unsafe and almost unusable for today's standard.

They just remodeled the Varsity theater, actually looks decent inside. It's a big auditorium that is used for music classes, movies, and large presentations. Can't tear it down until a new theater is built.

ETA: Not that I wouldn't tear down Lalu if I had the chance, just don't think it's at the op of the list.

One thing I wish Marquette would do is capitalize on out location to the highway more. Good start with the law school, but I'm surprised that during the the reconstruction of the highway that we couldn't get some free (or very cheap) advertisement from it. Let everyone driving from Chicago to Madison or the UP know they are passing Marquette. The over passes are already blue and gold (ok, cream) but have words like Marquette University, Excellence, Service, Leadership, etc. Also, on 894 I think there should be more signage to let people know we are there. If Lalumiere does get torn down, I would like something beautiful that faces the highway.

[KipsBayEagle]

I never understood why Lalumiere needed to be torn down. I think it's functional, just an eyesore. Whereas McCormick, is unsafe and almost unusable for today's standard.

They just remodeled the Varsity theater, actually looks decent inside. It's a big auditorium that is used for music classes, movies, and large presentations. Can't tear it down until a new theater is built.

the problem with tearing down Mccormick is where do you put all those freshman while you build another dorm?

[martyconlonontherun]

the problem with tearing down Mccormick is where do you put all those freshman while you build another dorm?

Well, I think they are working on it. The Abbottsford and McCabe were added recently. Not sure what the deal is with Hegarty's, but I thought they bought those apartments. They could also set up special wings in campus town. Even allow students from organizations to live with each other in one wing. Or have sophomore honors set up there.

IMO, when you consider that the fire exits are barely up to code and the rooms are incredibly small, I feel it should be a priority.  I know MU would never do it, but allow sophs for one year the opportunity to live off-campus, or atleast relax the standards for exemption, such as if you have a brother/sister/cousin, you can live with them.

[GGGG]

What currently occupies the old dental school building...and the rest of the Schroeder Complex?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

IMO, when you consider that the fire exits are barely up to code and the rooms are incredibly small, I feel it should be a priority.  I know MU would never do it, but allow sophs for one year the opportunity to live off-campus, or atleast relax the standards for exemption, such as if you have a brother/sister/cousin, you can live with them.

If you let a lot of sophs get out of the dorms, student safety would be a concern as student housing would have to extend past state street and probably past 22nd or 23rd.

It's not the end of the world, but I think that is something to consider.

MU has done a great job in the last decade with campus planning. Obviously we'd all still love it if the Avalanche was still around and a few other things, but for the most part, MU has done a good job upgrading campus.

[bma725]

What currently occupies the old dental school building...and the rest of the Schroeder Complex?

Pretty sure Schroeder has the College of Education and the College of Health Sciences.  Much of the old dental school was turned into the new Speech Pathology area because Monitor Hall got torn down right around the same time.  Pschology is also there as well, rather than having them spread out around campus.

[mu-rara]

So many awful building to be torn down and replaced... so little time.

Things that do NOT need to be replaced:
Rec Center
CoB building


Things to seriously consider tearing down...
McCormick Hall
Lalumiere


just a question... is the Varsity theatre still around?  If not, that building needs to GO.

Why no new CoB? 

[martyconlonontherun]

If you let a lot of sophs get out of the dorms, student safety would be a concern as student housing would have to extend past state street and probably past 22nd or 23rd.

It's not the end of the world, but I think that is something to consider.

MU has done a great job in the last decade with campus planning. Obviously we'd all still love it if the Avalanche was still around and a few other things, but for the most part, MU has done a good job upgrading campus.

I'm curious what MU long term plan will be. Anyone think in the next two decades they would expand west? There would be some PR problems doing that, but it seems they are slowly headed in that direction. It is weird mix once you get past Marquette's current campus. You have a ton of areas that you could purchase/tear down; a lot of appealing buildings/businesses that don't down grade the campus, but would break them up; and a lot of other buildings that you can't touch (Historic buildings, churches, etc)
Anyone know what they are planning with the old engineering building?

IMO- If you want to keep doing these projects without using every bit of green space, we would have to push west.

[martyconlonontherun]

Why no new CoB? 

I think you guys are discussing two different things. New CoB does not equal tearing down Straz. Straz has nice classrooms and some nice space, just not enough for the college of bus. I wonder if another school, or even just a major could take that over.

[deep vacuum]

I think you guys are discussing two different things. New CoB does not equal tearing down Straz. Straz has nice classrooms and some nice space, just not enough for the college of bus. I wonder if another school, or even just a major could take that over.

I understand that the old law library will be torn down in the near future but does anyone know what will happen to Sensenbrenner Hall when Eckstein Hall opens?

[MUBurrow]

Now THAT might make a nice intermediate solution for a COB.  A lot of conference rooms, etc. Move some of the nice rooms that are in Straz now (the stock ticker room comes to mind).  Although Sensenbrenner was not cutting it as a law school, it would be an upgrade from tossing MBA and B-school graduate students into Straz for six hours.  Particularly considering that I'm sure a number commute, etc.

[Coleman]

I never understood why Lalumiere needed to be torn down. I think it's functional, just an eyesore. Whereas McCormick, is unsafe and almost unusable for today's standard.

They just remodeled the Varsity theater, actually looks decent inside. It's a big auditorium that is used for music classes, movies, and large presentations. Can't tear it down until a new theater is built.

ETA: Not that I wouldn't tear down Lalu if I had the chance, just don't think it's at the op of the list.

One thing I wish Marquette would do is capitalize on out location to the highway more. Good start with the law school, but I'm surprised that during the the reconstruction of the highway that we couldn't get some free (or very cheap) advertisement from it. Let everyone driving from Chicago to Madison or the UP know they are passing Marquette. The over passes are already blue and gold (ok, cream) but have words like Marquette University, Excellence, Service, Leadership, etc. Also, on 894 I think there should be more signage to let people know we are there. If Lalumiere does get torn down, I would like something beautiful that faces the highway.

I already touched on Lalumiere. Its NOT functional. It leaks water every year into classrooms and hallways. I guess you could repair/renovate for that, but why not just tear the damn thing down?

And they have been advertising on the new Law School. At least last time I drove by it, there was a huge blue and gold sign that said Marquette University Law School visible from the highway.

[chapman]

I think you guys are discussing two different things. New CoB does not equal tearing down Straz. Straz has nice classrooms and some nice space, just not enough for the college of bus. I wonder if another school, or even just a major could take that over.

Agree completely, which is why I suggested that Lalumiere doesn't need to be replaced and it probably doesn't even make economic sense to replace.  Straz would be an upgrade and more than accomodating to everything that goes on in there; heck, the College of Communication might even be able to share it and it would still function better without all the CoB congestion.  Use the land Lalamiere is on, the extra space and the visible location to put a CoB with facilities up to par with the competition. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, those are very good points.  I went to MU in the late 80s...probably at the University's low point.  The facilities were pretty spartan back then.  When I was leaving is when they opened up AMU with Cudahy soon to follow.  That sparked the turn around that has continued to this day.

As long as those buildings are built with donated money, it will have no real affect on student tuition.

I'm also going to agree with you big time on the medical school.  Even if it was located where MCW is now, it would be better if it were Marquette Medical School.

I went to MU during the same period. I actually worked at the old union and the new union.  That was definitely the start of ramping things up a bit. 

In my mind, if we're going to be a top notch university we have to act like one.  That includes perception of the physical plant. 

MU during the late 80's was in pretty bad shape physically and though applications were up, we were the benefit of a Generation X boom were every college was seeing increased applications.  In my opinion, we had a number of students accepted at MU during that time period that would not be accepted in today's day and age.  By increasing tuition, that has helped to raise the profile and weed out some students that are not qualified to attend MU.

Sorry if that sounds prickish, but I believe it to be true.