Newbill article

[mviale]

I think a kid has to be pretty good to put up 64 points in a high school game, regarding the competition.  I would guess the rankings aren't up to date or he hasn't been looked at by the people that do the rankings.  He doesn't even show up on  ESPN so I'm guessing he hasn't been looked at if he isn't even in their database.

Would you rather have Scott C or this one star?

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think you severely underestimate how out there Tim's thought process is.  He's the same guy who said that Baylor was going to run their offense through Jeronne, and the Iowa State wanted to build their program around him.  I can guarantee you that no one at Iowa State said anything like that, but Tim hears what Tim wants to hear.

That's two and the bonus:

"We're looking at some decent programs, like Central Florida where Michael Jordan's son plays," Tim Maymon said. "That would be a great school that he could go in and they could pretty much get to the Final Four and do some damage."

[dennycrane]

denny, if Jeronne's and Tim' OWN WORDS are to be believed, Jeronne did not think that he had been promised a starting slot and Tim thought that his son deserved it, should have the offense run through him, and was another Michael Beasley.   Now, if, as a typical badger fan, you start with the premise that everything MU does is crooked and everything Buzz says is a lie, (A) I pity you, and (B) nothing anyone is going to say is going to change your mind.    Look at the quotes of the people involved.    It is a pretty clear picture once you take off the crimson shades.   

Tim Maymon says alot of things. You are being selective in what you want to hear. No need to pity me or place words in my mouth.

[dennycrane]

  The fact you are defending Tim Maymon,

Defending him by calling him an idiot? I posted before any of this occured MU would be better off staying away from Maymon and his loser father. Now I am him his biggest defender? You need a reality check. Mistakes were made. They will be made again unless someone recognizes this.

[LON]

Defending him by calling him an idiot? I posted before any of this occured MU would be better off staying away from Maymon and his loser father. Now I am him his biggest defender? You need a reality check. Mistakes were made. They will be made again unless someone recognizes this.

Thank you for your concern our program.  Now run along.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Tim Maymon says alot of things. You are being selective in what you want to hear. No need to pity me or place words in my mouth.

I actually think Tim and Buzz are to blame.

Obviously Tim has a large problem with selective hearing based upon his track record of statements (that BMA pointed out so delinquently)

Buzz, (who appears like an honest guy, I like him), needs to do a better job of being completely blunt with a recruit. I'm not sure exactly what Buzz told JM and TM, but obviously JM and TM came away hearing what they wanted.

The blame doesn't really fall all on Buzz as he can't control how TM thinks... but Buzz is responsible for signing the right kids and making sure they understand his expectations.

I'll call it 50/50. Tim is beyond reality and Buzz needs to do a better job presenting and enforcing reality with these kids, even if that means losing a recruit.

[damuts222]

 Why are we talking about the Maymon family, Newbill....

[GGGG]

I actually think Tim and Buzz are to blame.

Obviously Tim has a large problem with selective hearing based upon his track record of statements (that BMA pointed out so delinquently)

Buzz, (who appears like an honest guy, I like him), needs to do a better job of being completely blunt with a recruit. I'm not sure exactly what Buzz told JM and TM, but obviously JM and TM came away hearing what they wanted.

The blame doesn't really fall all on Buzz as he can't control how TM thinks... but Buzz is responsible for signing the right kids and making sure they understand his expectations.

I'll call it 50/50. Tim is beyond reality and Buzz needs to do a better job presenting and enforcing reality with these kids, even if that means losing a recruit.

OK...we have one instance where this supposedly occurred.  And excuse me if I'm not going to take the word of that nutjob Tim Maymon over the word of our coach.

You have no idea what Buzz said to Maymon.  You have no idea what he said to Newbill.

[NotAnAlum]

Can we get 40 mpg at the point with Cadougan and Smith?  All reports indicated this is a slam dunk (no pun intended).

Can we get 80 mpg out of our wings, with DJO, Buycks, Blue & Jones?   I think the bigger challenge is how you limit them to only 20 mpg on average.  DJO and Buycks are going to want to keep their 27-28 mpg, Blue is going to want the same, and that leaves  ???? for Jones. 

At the 4, Butler will easily give us 30 a game.  That gives 10 to split between Jones (since there's very few wing minutes), Fulce & Williams.

Up to this point, we probably have one of the best teams in the league.

Now we come to the last position--I'm sorry, but I don't see 40 minutes to Mbao and Otule--not without some miracle of off-season development. 
Thus, we don't sign two bigs because we think we can get two good ones.  We sign two bigs in the spring to double the chance that one of them will be what we need.  And if both are great, that's a high quality problem to have.

If we can stop the water over the dam Maymon talk Marquette84 is making a very good point here.  You can only have 5 guys on the court at once and we are loaded at guard even assuming a 3 guard set all the time and the talent level at guard is going to DEMAND to be played.  A Junior and Senior DJO needs to play 30 minutes, he is (and will be) that good.  I think the same will probably go for Blue.  Jones is a great shooter and he gives you even more height but he is not an inside player.  I think we are going to what him in the game more than 8 minutes.  Buzz "I play the guys that give me the best chance to win" Williams is not going to be able to find time for Newbill for the next several years.  Those years could be used to add seasoning to a couple big man projects.
Buzz has done a great job recruiting thus far and has put us in a position to be very good.  BUT when you get to this point on your roster you've got to turn off the "I'll take any player who can help us" mentality and start filling out your team based on need and building from within what you can't seem to recruit directly.

[GOMU1104]

BUT when you get to this point on your roster you've got to turn off the "I'll take any player who can help us" mentality and start filling out your team based on need and building from within what you can't seem to recruit directly.

What if those players that "fit a need" are terrible, and wont contribute on the Big East level?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

OK...we have one instance where this supposedly occurred.  And excuse me if I'm not going to take the word of that nutjob Tim Maymon over the word of our coach.

You have no idea what Buzz said to Maymon.  You have no idea what he said to Newbill.

Absolutely. You are completely right.

I have NO IDEA what was told or promised.

BUT, I know what TM and JM thought... and that counts for something. I'm not saying I "believe" them, I'm just saying that their perception is the reality in this case.

Tim is a whack job, but Buzz knew that. This isn't new stuff.

If Buzz was brutally honest with them, and they still heard what they wanted to, I still think Buzz is still partially responsible because he has to be able to read the situation and understand who he is recruiting and what they are thinking.

I'm not hating on Buzz, I'm just saying that ultimately the buck stops with him. If a recruit and his parent(s) aren't understanding what Buzz is selling, he needs to cut bait or have a "come to God" meeting with them and make sure they are on the same page.

Again, I'm not saying Buzz is a bad guy or a bad coach, but the Maymon situation was a calculated risk that blew up in Buzz's face.

[Hards Alumni]

If we can stop the water over the dam Maymon talk Marquette84 is making a very good point here.  You can only have 5 guys on the court at once and we are loaded at guard even assuming a 3 guard set all the time and the talent level at guard is going to DEMAND to be played.  A Junior and Senior DJO needs to play 30 minutes, he is (and will be) that good.  I think the same will probably go for Blue.  Jones is a great shooter and he gives you even more height but he is not an inside player.  I think we are going to what him in the game more than 8 minutes.  Buzz "I play the guys that give me the best chance to win" Williams is not going to be able to find time for Newbill for the next several years.  Those years could be used to add seasoning to a couple big man projects.
Buzz has done a great job recruiting thus far and has put us in a position to be very good.  BUT when you get to this point on your roster you've got to turn off the "I'll take any player who can help us" mentality and start filling out your team based on need and building from within what you can't seem to recruit directly.

just my 2 cents but I'm guessing that Buzz has told DJ Newbill, just like he has told the other recruits... you play the minutes you EARN.  No one is guarenteed anything, and we will put our best players out there to win.

That being said... IMO, next year's depth chart would look something like this... (in terms of PT)

Guards
DJO
Junior Cadougan
Vander Blue
Dwight Buycks
Reggie Smith
DJ Newbill

Forwards
Butler
Fulce
Erik Williams
Jones

Centers
Otule
Mbao

5 Starters being
Junior Cadougan
DJO
Blue
Butler
Otule

first off the bench is Fulce -> Dwight Buycks

And thats just being honest.  You guys can be high on certain recruits, but I think Buzz will go with more experience. The minutes might be more spread out in some places... we will have to go with 3 guards for most of the game.  Otule will have to shoulder as much load as he can handle down low with no real second option (Mbao will still be raw, but developing, and the rest of the 'forwards' are long but don't have the bulk.)  Our young duo of Smith and Newbill might find themselves short on minutes their first year, but after DB is graduated, and who knows how long Blue will be sticking around, they could be major contributers by their sophmore years.  Jones, EW, and Fulce might get about equal minutes... but I'm not so sure here.

Then again, I could be completely wrong about everything... but I wouldn't make the predictions if I thought I was wrong.

[Lennys Tap]

I actually think Tim and Buzz are to blame.

Obviously Tim has a large problem with selective hearing based upon his track record of statements (that BMA pointed out so delinquently)

Buzz, (who appears like an honest guy, I like him), needs to do a better job of being completely blunt with a recruit. I'm not sure exactly what Buzz told JM and TM, but obviously JM and TM came away hearing what they wanted.

The blame doesn't really fall all on Buzz as he can't control how TM thinks... but Buzz is responsible for signing the right kids and making sure they understand his expectations.

I'll call it 50/50. Tim is beyond reality and Buzz needs to do a better job presenting and enforcing reality with these kids, even if that means losing a recruit.

Hard to "assess blame" when neither you nor I are privy to ANY of the conversations between Buzz and the Maymons. But based on Tim Maymon's insane characterizations of conversations with coaches at Baylor and Iowa State (where the offense would run through Jeronne from day 1!) I think it's fair to say that Tim Maymon was, is, and probably always will be delusional in these matters.

[GOMU1104]

On his show the other night, Buzz said something to the effect of "I want to play 9.5 guys....with the .5 being a specialist."  

Will he be at that point next year? It is hard to tell.

[GGGG]

I think people are getting too worried about figuring out how players are going to get minutes as freshman or sophomores, when the fact is that in most programs, unless you are a top-level talent like Vander Blue might be, you are going to be sitting on the bench for a good portion of your first two years.  

I don't think you are going to see much of Newbill, Smith or Jones next year.  Hards' depth chart I think is fairly accurate...a couple of nitpicks here and there...but what do I know?

Buycks has one more year...DJO has two...playing time will open up for these guys as time goes on.  If Buzz recruits over them...GREAT!!  That means we have more talent.  The key for Buzz is making sure everyone knows there role and keeps people a part of the Marquette family - and transfers are not the end of the world either.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Hard to "assess blame" when neither you nor I are privy to ANY of the conversations between Buzz and the Maymons. But based on Tim Maymon's insane characterizations of conversations with coaches at Baylor and Iowa State (where the offense would run through Jeronne from day 1!) I think it's fair to say that Tim Maymon was, is, and probably always will be delusional in these matters.

You're right. I have no idea what what said. I'm not pretending to know.

I just think that you have to hold the head coach at least somewhat responsible when a kid comes to MU and doesn't realize what he is getting into.

I'm sure Buzz told JM and TM over and over again. But, Buzz has to be smart enough to read the situation and understand what TM and JM are really "hearing" and what their perception is.

It was a risk to bring Maymon in. It was probably a risk worth taking, so I can't blame Buzz for that... but ultimately he is at least partially responsible for how things went. I can't just write it off to "Tim Maymon is nuts", because we all knew that before MU ever recruited Jerrone.

*Also, I think my choice of words was poor in my previous post. "Blame" is too inflammatory, solicits a defensive response. I don't really "blame" Buzz in a negative way, I'm just saying he's 50% responsible as recruiting is a 2 way street.*

[GGGG]

You're right. I have no idea what what said. I'm not pretending to know.

I just think that you have to hold the head coach at least somewhat responsible when a kid comes to MU and doesn't realize what he is getting into.

Unless it becomes a chronic issue with future recruits, I am not going to hold Buzz at all responsible given what I have seen from Tim Maymon.

[NersEllenson]

I think people are getting too worried about figuring out how players are going to get minutes as freshman or sophomores, when the fact is that in most programs, unless you are a top-level talent like Vander Blue might be, you are going to be sitting on the bench for a good portion of your first two years.  

I don't think you are going to see much of Newbill, Smith or Jones next year.  Hards' depth chart I think is fairly accurate...a couple of nitpicks here and there...but what do I know?

Buycks has one more year...DJO has two...playing time will open up for these guys as time goes on.  If Buzz recruits over them...GREAT!!  That means we have more talent.  The key for Buzz is making sure everyone knows there role and keeps people a part of the Marquette family - and transfers are not the end of the world either.

+1 Sultan - you are on a roll with this post and this one:  OK...we have one instance where this supposedly occurred.  And excuse me if I'm not going to take the word of that nutjob Tim Maymon over the word of our coach.  You have no idea what Buzz said to Maymon.  You have no idea what he said to Newbill.

What's funny here is MU fans don't know how to handle a surplus of Top Talent - it hasn't happened here since the Days of Al.  Not bashing Crean, but that dude never stacked talent beyond maybe 6-deep.  There was a huge drop-off from his Top 6 to his 2nd 6.  We should be absolutely embracing this - Buzz will get a big with the last scholarship, that can play some minutes next year.  Book It.  (I don't have any inside information, but I have complete confidence and faith in Buzz..he's earned that by now.)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Unless it becomes a chronic issue with future recruits, I am not going to hold Buzz at all responsible given what I have seen from Tim Maymon.

Agreed, I'm not saying Buzz is a liar, or that this is a chronic problem, so I'm not trying to bash Buzz about it.

I'm simply saying in this specific instance, I can't just give Buzz a free pass because "Tim Maymon is nuts". Realistically, if Tim Maymon was so crazy, maybe Buzz should have stayed away, no?

Again, I really like Buzz. I like the program. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. Just trying to be fair when looking at MU. If TN has issues with Maymon(s), I'll make the same comment(s) about Bruce.

[GGGG]

Agreed, I'm not saying Buzz is a liar, or that this is a chronic problem, so I'm not trying to bash Buzz about it.

I'm simply saying in this specific instance, I can't just give Buzz a free pass because "Tim Maymon is nuts".

Well...then you really *don't* agree.  I am giving Buzz a free pass because Tim Maymon is nuts.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Well...then you really *don't* agree.  I am giving Buzz a free pass because Tim Maymon is nuts.

Well, then the obvious question is, didn't Buzz already know that and/or isn't it his job to know that?

You're right that we disagree... I guess I'm just trying to say that I'm not holding a grudge against Buzz about it, but I definitely can't just hand him a free pass.

[Marquette84]

What's funny here is MU fans don't know how to handle a surplus of Top Talent - it hasn't happened here since the Days of Al.  Not bashing Crean, but that dude never stacked talent beyond maybe 6-deep.  There was a huge drop-off from his Top 6 to his 2nd 6.  We should be absolutely embracing this - Buzz will get a big with the last scholarship, that can play some minutes next year.  Book It.  (I don't have any inside information, but I have complete confidence and faith in Buzz..he's earned that by now.)

Actually, Al didn't have deep teams.  He had a strong top 6 or 8, and the remainder were role players.

Just ask Murff

Seriously--look at the box from the '77 championship game.  We played just 7 deep--and one of those was Neary.     

We did play 10 players in the 1974 championship game--but after a top six of Ellis, Tatum, Lucas, Walton, Washington and Daniels, the next four were Rick Campbell, Jerry Homan, Dave Delsman and Barry Brennan.  I don't think your comment about a 2nd six nearly as strong as the first is entirely accurate.

[NersEllenson]

Actually, Al didn't have deep teams.  He had a strong top 6 or 8, and the remainder were role players.

Just ask Murff

Seriously--look at the box from the '77 championship game.  We played just 7 deep--and one of those was Neary.     

We did play 10 players in the 1974 championship game--but after a top six of Ellis, Tatum, Lucas, Walton, Washington and Daniels, the next four were Rick Campbell, Jerry Homan, Dave Delsman and Barry Brennan.  I don't think your comment about a 2nd six nearly as strong as the first is entirely accurate.

I stand corrected, I made an assumption that Al's teams were deep and talented .  I do think it is fair to say that what Buzz is doing with his recruiting certainly is better than anything we've seen since Al's days.  I genuinely believe that he'll have a roster where his 6 through 10 lineup is almost NO drop-off from the starters.  He is stacking the talent deep.  We definitely haven't seen that at MU in at least 30 years...and I think we as fans don't know how to react to seeing this much talent assembled at one-time.  Maybe a stretch of a statement, but to me, this is what goes on at Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, Michigan State - all schools that have little drop off in guys 6 through 10.