No one is talking about it.....Junior didn't play today

[willie warrior]

Glad for the win---Butler and DJO stepped up.

But we are deluding ourselves if we think playing Cubi and Acker for 71 minutes is going to get the job done very often in the Beast.

Get Cadougan in there to see what he can do!!!!!

[GGGG]

Fair point - Chicos has simply baffled me previously with some of his passive agressive comments toward Buzz, and I'm a Buzz-sexual.  Guilty of a full on man-crush for Buzz and what he has done with this program, this team, his recruiting, etc.  It is interesting that the topic thread changed to "Winning at UCONN with Junior and Lazar on the bench, WOW"  When Chico's started the topic by posting something to the effect of  "No Junior Today - I find that interesting."  And as you can see, this incited some comments about the "decision" of the coaching staff to let him play this year, and burn his potential red-shirt...that is the passive agressive nature I'm speaking of, and calling out - not necessarily ripping the guy.

Do you want this board populated with nothing but "Buzz-sexuals?"  That would be dull.

[jsglow]

I'll actually ask a question here.  Is there a max number of games you can play and/or does the timing of the games matter in terms of a Red shirt.  We know that Otule played early, then got hurt, but still got his injury credit this year.  Does the fact that JC has come back and played a few minutes automatically disqualify him?  Say he re-injured it slightly?  Is the Red shirt already gone?

[GGGG]

I'll actually ask a question here.  Is there a max number of games you can play and/or does the timing of the games matter in terms of a Red shirt.  We know that Otule played early, then got hurt, but still got his injury credit this year.  Does the fact that JC has come back and played a few minutes automatically disqualify him?  Say he re-injured it slightly?  Is the Red shirt already gone?

Yes.  It is gone.  He could only have played in the first half of the year.

[mu_hilltopper]

Okay - Now I'm starting to get annoyed with some of you who can't grasp this.  Cadougans Mom lives about 2 hours from Syracuse - it was her first time to see her son play in 4 years. 

Ah, so you're basing your argument not on your superior "basketball IQ", but an external factor, that Buzz gave Junior PT @Syracuse because Buzz runs a program with tee-ball rules, where you get to play if your parents are in the crowd.

Triche and Jardine are more physical guards, not the fleet footed variety of Dyson and Walker.  Rutgers was a blowout. 

..and that Junior (or any player), at "80-85%" is apparently quick enough for those guys, not a liability by any stretch .. as long as he's playing in front of his mommy.

Look, there are plenty of possible reasons for why Junior didn't play yesterday.  Different opposition, matchups, health, good/bad practices, etc.  Writing that someone who asks the question doesn't "have any basketball IQ" suggests the author thinks pretty highly of himself. 

[MU111]

...that is the passive agressive nature I'm speaking of, and calling out - not necessarily ripping the guy.

You don't have a lot of place to complain about passive-aggressive tendencies on the board, as you seem to be one who will openly rip people with whom you don't agree.  Feel free to prove me wrong, but a couple examples I've already seen in the past few days are your insinuation that Chico's has no basketball IQ on this thread and stating that 70 percent of all Packers fans are ignorant in your Superbar thread.

[MUEng92]

Ah, so you're basing your argument not on your superior "basketball IQ" 

The repeated references to basketball IQ by said poster was making my finger reach to the Ignore button.  Usually when someone refers to something like that so often it is a preemptive strike because they know they are actually lacking in the topic in question. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

The repeated references to basketball IQ by said poster was making my finger reach to the Ignore button.  Usually when someone refers to something like that so often it is a preemptive strike because they know they are actually lacking in the topic in question. 

I didn't even itch, he's already on it.

[NersEllenson]

Ah, so you're basing your argument not on your superior "basketball IQ", but an external factor, that Buzz gave Junior PT @Syracuse because Buzz runs a program with tee-ball rules, where you get to play if your parents are in the crowd.

..and that Junior (or any player), at "80-85%" is apparently quick enough for those guys, not a liability by any stretch .. as long as he's playing in front of his mommy.

Look, there are plenty of possible reasons for why Junior didn't play yesterday.  Different opposition, matchups, health, good/bad practices, etc.  Writing that someone who asks the question doesn't "have any basketball IQ" suggests the author thinks pretty highly of himself. 

  Is there anything wrong with being confident in your opinions?  At least you have attempted to discredit my theory, whereas some here MUEng 92, Chicos, just resort to the Ignore button.  It's funny Chico's has me on Ignore, when he just yesterday referred to me as, "aren't you a sensitive one?"  Ironic for sure that he has to resort to the Ignore feature...or really, for anyone to be so sensitive on a message board that they have to use an Ignore feature.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you don't agree with someone else's, so be it, but to resort to Ignore feature.  Weak.
We can go around and around about the use of Basketball IQ - but it doesn't really take a genius to relaize Cadougan at this point isn't a great choice to defend against the likes of Dyson and Walker.  And yes, I do feel they gave JC a shot in Syraccuse to see 1) where he was at with respect to competing in a game, and 2) The fact his Mom was able to be there and see him perform.  No, it's not Little League but I think Buzz has a heart, and can respect a kid for working his A$$ off in rehab to get ready - and to reward him with some PT, and in a place where it just so happpened that his Mom could see him play.

[NersEllenson]

You don't have a lot of place to complain about passive-aggressive tendencies on the board, as you seem to be one who will openly rip people with whom you don't agree.  Feel free to prove me wrong, but a couple examples I've already seen in the past few days are your insinuation that Chico's has no basketball IQ on this thread and stating that 70 percent of all Packers fans are ignorant in your Superbar thread.

Well if I (as you say) "openly rip people with whom I don't agree," I'm not sure what is passive agressive about that?  It is pretty straight forward and transparent.  It's no surprise Chicos is a Tom Crean fan, and me a Buzz Williams fan - Crean was a spin-guy, slick/PR guy, (California living Chicos) and me being a Texan, love Buzz for being straight-forward, all substance, with no concern for style.  I call it like I see it, and that also explains my post on the Superbar forum about 70% of Packer fans being Ignorant.  It just baffles me that there can be so much hatred and ill-will toward Brett Farve..who basically made Green Bay relevant in football again... Green Bay didn't want Farve back, he wanted to still play..both parties moved on.  Most veteran free agents (which is basically what Farve became after Green Bay traded him) don't choose to go a bad team - Farve wanted a chance at a Super Bowl, and it just so happened Green Bay's biggest rival had a very talented team at every position except QB..so he went there to play.  Guarantee you he never would have gone to MN if they weree a team like the Oakland Raiders.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Well if I (as you say) "openly rip people with whom I don't agree," I'm not sure what is passive agressive about that?  It is pretty straight forward and transparent.  It's no surprise Chicos is a Tom Crean fan, and me a Buzz Williams fan - Crean was a spin-guy, slick/PR guy, (California living Chicos) and me being a Texan, love Buzz for being straight-forward, all substance, with no concern for style.  I call it like I see it, and that also explains my post on the Superbar forum about 70% of Packer fans being Ignorant.  It just baffles me that their can be so much hatred and ill-will toward Brett Farve..who basically made Green Bay relevant in football again... Green Bay didn't want Farve back, he wanted to still play..both parties moved on.  Most veteran free agents (which is basically what Farve became after Green Bay traded him) don't choose to go a bad team - Farve wanted a chance at a Super Bowl, and it just so happened Green Bay's biggest rival had a very talented team at every position except QB..so he went there to play.  Guarantee you he never would have gone to MN if they weree a team like the Oakland Raiders.

I actually agree with a lot of your posts...

But, just because we all "like" Buzz, doesn't mean he's infallible. I think it's ok to ask questions about his recruiting choices, isn't it?

It seems like you are jumping on some people's cases simply because they are mildly skeptical of 1 recruit and/or are surprised by the playing time for current player.

[NersEllenson]

I actually agree with a lot of your posts...

But, just because we all "like" Buzz, doesn't mean he's infallible. I think it's ok to ask questions about his recruiting choices, isn't it?

It seems like you are jumping on some people's cases simply because they are mildly skeptical of 1 recruit.

Thanks..I find I agree with many peoples viewpoints on MUScoop, just a few people who I don't - but I don't have any ill-will toward them.  And yes, you make a good point that it is fair to question Buzz's recruiting choices, and that Buzz is not without fail.  Unfortunately, in the DJ Newbill thread - a poster by the name of Gumbey and Pokey (who if you look at all of his 33 posts, are all anti-MU, Buzz Williams, etc  -clearly probably a Badger troll) made a deragotory comment about ths signing of DJ Newbill.  And then right after his post, here comes Chicos with all of this data that no other High-Majors were recruiting him, he's like th 177th best shooting guard prospect etc.  I've asked on that thread..at this point in the signing year - what Top 100 or Top 150 players (much less big men) are still available??  What do some MU fans expect??  I think it certainly is fair to discuss the recruits Buzz brings in...but to do so with a negative slant at this stage of the singing period..and after he already has assembled a 2nd Top 20 ranked class - is a bit ridiculous, if not disingenuous...in fact, that is basically the way Chico's strikes me as being a rather disingenuous person.

[ChicosBailBonds]

For the record, I'm a fan of both of them.....  I appreciate what TC did for us here and appreciate what Buzz is doing for us now.

I don't find it mutually exclusive to have appreciation for both coaches and what they accomplished.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Can't the guy ask a question that begged to be asked without people getting personal?  I'm here to learn about the team and basketball from those who are far more knowledgeable not have to wade through school yard one upmanship.

[NersEllenson]

Can't the guy ask a question that begged to be asked without people getting personal?  I'm here to learn about the team and basketball from those who are far more knowledgeable not have to wade through school yard one upmanship.

Most definitely, but if you want to learn and save yourself some time wading through school yard one upsmanship - you can probably just skip past any post made by Chicos.  Obviously Chicos started this topic because he didn't understand or have the knowledge as to why JC didn't play against UCONN.  I gave you the most plausible reason in post 2 or 3 of this thread - but you chose to read the rest of the banter back and forth between me/Chicos/others...

[mu_hilltopper]

  Is there anything wrong with being confident in your opinions? 

Nothing wrong with that.  As long as you don't personally attack others while explaining your point. 

[MR.HAYWARD]

Thanks..I find I agree with many peoples viewpoints on MUScoop, just a few people who I don't - but I don't have any ill-will toward them.  And yes, you make a good point that it is fair to question Buzz's recruiting choices, and that Buzz is not without fail.  Unfortunately, in the DJ Newbill thread - a poster by the name of Gumbey and Pokey (who if you look at all of his 33 posts, are all anti-MU, Buzz Williams, etc  -clearly probably a Badger troll) made a deragotory comment about ths signing of DJ Newbill.  And then right after his post, here comes Chicos with all of this data that no other High-Majors were recruiting him, he's like th 177th best shooting guard prospect etc.  I've asked on that thread..at this point in the signing year - what Top 100 or Top 150 players (much less big men) are still available??  What do some MU fans expect??  I think it certainly is fair to discuss the recruits Buzz brings in...but to do so with a negative slant at this stage of the singing period..and after he already has assembled a 2nd Top 20 ranked class - is a bit ridiculous, if not disingenuous...in fact, that is basically the way Chico's strikes me as being a rather disingenuous person.

Chicos is far worse and more derogatory than any badger troll, he proves that every day

[Marquette84]

Most definitely, but if you want to learn and save yourself some time wading through school yard one upsmanship - you can probably just skip past any post made by Chicos.  Obviously Chicos started this topic because he didn't understand or have the knowledge as to why JC didn't play against UCONN.  I gave you the most plausible reason in post 2 or 3 of this thread - but you chose to read the rest of the banter back and forth between me/Chicos/others...

Perhaps you could avoided the one-upmanship if you had not started your post with the words "If you had any basketball IQ you would realize . . . "

Furthermore, you contributed to this by failing to respond constructively to his counterpoint that Cadougan did play versus #4 Syracuse, refuting your suggestion that only 85% back is not recovery enough to play against a good team.  

Thanks..I find I agree with many peoples viewpoints on MUScoop, just a few people who I don't - but I don't have any ill-will toward them.  And yes, you make a good point that it is fair to question Buzz's recruiting choices, and that Buzz is not without fail.  Unfortunately, in the DJ Newbill thread - a poster by the name of Gumbey and Pokey (who if you look at all of his 33 posts, are all anti-MU, Buzz Williams, etc  -clearly probably a Badger troll) made a deragotory comment about ths signing of DJ Newbill.  And then right after his post, here comes Chicos with all of this data that no other High-Majors were recruiting him, he's like th 177th best shooting guard prospect etc.  . . .  is a bit ridiculous, if not disingenuous...in fact, that is basically the way Chico's strikes me as being a rather disingenuous person.

First, you say its fair to question Buzz's recruiting.  Then you turn around call the person who does so "disingenuous" rather than address any of the legitimate points.

Look, if you don't like Chicos personally, that's fine.  But he does raise some serious issues--that you don't eliminate simply by attacking the messenger.

If you want to discuss the points, then do so.  If you want to agree to disagree, thats fine too.  But please stop with your attempts to delegitimize his argument (which, BTW, you claim is a fair argument) by attacking him personally

I've asked on that thread..at this point in the signing year - what Top 100 or Top 150 players (much less big men) are still available??  What do some MU fans expect??  I think it certainly is fair to discuss the recruits Buzz brings in...but to do so with a negative slant at this stage of the singing period..and after he already has assembled a 2nd Top 20 ranked class.

Frankly, your implication that we had to take Newbill now because there are no quality players with size available is more disingenuous than anything Chicos said.

The fact of the matter is that there are quality players at every position who are signed in the spring every year who manage to make an immediate contribution the following season--Butler and DJO to name two that Buzz has been able to land.  Therefore, we don't need to play games by asking "what Top 100 or Top 150 players (much less big men) are still available??" as if there aren't any.  We know there are some out there--its up to the coaching staff to find and land them.

There's no way to avoid the negative slant here--we need another big, and landed a guard.  From all reports, its tough to make the case that he's going to upgrade a backcourt that already features Cadougan, Blue, DJO, Buycks and Smith.

And at this point, while a top 100 big for next year would be ideal, we desperately need any big who can play period.  Going into next year while putting all our eggs with Mbao and Otule will be extremely risky.  

At this point, given the way our roster is shaping up for next year, if were going to take a player outside the top 150 (landing him over mostly mid-majors), I'd just as soon take a player with size than another guard.

[NersEllenson]

Furthermore, you contributed to this by failing to respond constructively to his counterpoint that Cadougan did play versus #4 Syracuse, refuting your suggestion that only 85% back is not recovery enough to play against a good team.  

I don't need to respond constructively to his counterpoint that Cadougan played against #4 Syracuse - because I never said being 85% back is not recovery enough to play against a good team.  The question Chicos raised or "found interesting" was the he didn't play against UCONN - and I explained that it had everything to do with matchups - Dyson and Walker are probably the 2 quickest guards in all of college bball.  Quickness wasn't Cadougans best asset before the achilles - and now you want to throw him out there against Dyson and Walker??  Syracuse's guards Triche and Jardine are much more physical, less fleet of foot players. 

And yes, I do have an issue with Chicos - he is disingenuous.  A fraud.  See the Newbill thread - he piggybacks BMA's feedback on the Newbill signing, as saying that "many of us have shared the same sentiment, but we are Buzz haters," when in that same thread he posted "I have not even shared an opinion on the signing  of Newbill." 

And you are free to call me disingenuous, for saying that it is fair to evaluate Buzz's recruiting...even though I staunchly support Buzz and have great confidence in his decision-making.    But don't try to point to Buzz's signing of Jimmy Butler and DJO in the spring as being relevant to his ability to sign a big this spring.  Obviously, Buzz knows we need a big...he isn't an f'in idiot.  To me, you either have confidence in the man, or you don't.   You have no idea what intentions he has for the style of play we will see next year...but I suspect if the incoming guards are as good as touted - you will see a ton of full court pressure, and defenisive intensity that is off the charts.

[MU111]

Well if I (as you say) "openly rip people with whom I don't agree," I'm not sure what is passive agressive about that?  It is pretty straight forward and transparent.  It's no surprise Chicos is a Tom Crean fan, and me a Buzz Williams fan - Crean was a spin-guy, slick/PR guy, (California living Chicos) and me being a Texan, love Buzz for being straight-forward, all substance, with no concern for style.  I call it like I see it, and that also explains my post on the Superbar forum about 70% of Packer fans being Ignorant.  It just baffles me that there can be so much hatred and ill-will toward Brett Farve..who basically made Green Bay relevant in football again... Green Bay didn't want Farve back, he wanted to still play..both parties moved on.  Most veteran free agents (which is basically what Farve became after Green Bay traded him) don't choose to go a bad team - Farve wanted a chance at a Super Bowl, and it just so happened Green Bay's biggest rival had a very talented team at every position except QB..so he went there to play.  Guarantee you he never would have gone to MN if they weree a team like the Oakland Raiders.

I wasn't trying to suggest that ripping people is passive-aggressive.  You're right, it's not.  It strikes me as being simply aggressive, if anything.  My point is that there's no need for name-calling when someone holds a different viewpoint.  There are plenty of better ways to support your argument.  Do I agree with all of your posts?  No, I don't, but I'm not going to call you ignorant or say you have no basketball IQ when I don't agree.  It's just something to think about.

[Marquette84]

And you are free to call me disingenuous, for saying that it is fair to evaluate Buzz's recruiting...even though I staunchly support Buzz and have great confidence in his decision-making.    But don't try to point to Buzz's signing of Jimmy Butler and DJO in the spring as being relevant to his ability to sign a big this spring. 

You specifically said:  "I've asked on that thread..at this point in the signing year - what Top 100 or Top 150 players (much less big men) are still available??"

I take your statement to suggest that you don't feel a quality player (much less a big) is still available--but please clarify if this is incorrect.

Here's why Butler and DJO are relevant:

At this point in the 2008 signing year Butler was available.
At this point in the 2009 signing year DJO was available.

By showing that Buzz was able to recruit Butler and DJO at the same point in time in prior seasons, it disproves your implication that good players cannot be found at this point of the year.

[NersEllenson]

I wasn't trying to suggest that ripping people is passive-aggressive.  You're right, it's not.  It strikes me as being simply aggressive, if anything.  My point is that there's no need for name-calling when someone holds a different viewpoint.  There are plenty of better ways to support your argument.  Do I agree with all of your posts?  No, I don't, but I'm not going to call you ignorant or say you have no basketball IQ when I don't agree.  It's just something to think about.

Alright dude - I've given it some thought and my thoughts are:  1) I started the Green Bay thread and used data from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that showed 70% of respondents wanted Brett Farve to fail.  To me, people who harbor bitterness and want to spite someone - who at one time gave so much joy, and heart to those same people - because he moved on to a different relationship (after his EX (team) didn't want him anymore)..just seems small-minded and ignorant.  To me that's like if I dumped my 17 year girlfriend or wife for a younger model (Aaron Rodgers in the Packers case), and then wished bad toward her..was bitter toward her..just seems ignorant.  And, my decision to dump my girlfriend or wife for a younger model, very well might have been the right decision..as it seems in the Packers case..as Rogers has played phenomonally.  That said - why would I be mad and bitter toward my Ex??  Why should Packers fans be mad at Farve? (For the record, I am not guilty of dumping anyone for a younger model  -but just painting the picture differently with that analogy.)

2) I'll try to be a bit more sensitive to the name calling you mention - though I didn't call Chicos an idiot, jerk, or anything else..just said his basketball IQ was lacking.  In fact I even wrote in one post that he writes well, is articulate..and ultimately is probalby an intelligent person..but with regard to basketball matters, that doesn't seem to be his strong suit.

[NersEllenson]

You specifically said:  "I've asked on that thread..at this point in the signing year - what Top 100 or Top 150 players (much less big men) are still available??"

I take your statement to suggest that you don't feel a quality player (much less a big) is still availability please clarify if this is incorrect.

Here's why Butler and DJO are relevant:

At this point in the 2008 signing year Butler was available.
At this point in the 2009 signing year DJO was available.

By showing that Buzz was able to recruit Butler and DJO at the same point in time in prior seasons, it disproves your implication that good players cannot be found at this point of the year.

It has been covered in this topic or another thread what "Big" remain unsigned in the Top 150..the list wasn't accurate or up to date.  There aren't really any good ones out there at this point - or at least not 2 good ones.  Why do you not think that Newbill couldn't  turn out to be a good player like DJO?  Why do you think Buzz won't sign a 6'8' kid like Butler with this next scholarship?  Basically, to me it seems like history could repeat itself all over, and the point you are trying to defend, is the point you are being critical of.??

[chren21]

Here is what ESPN has as still considering MU.  There are some good bigs left other than listed below but doesnt seem like there is interest...

2010 Players Considering - Marquette
NAME POS HT WT SCHOOL RANK GRADE STATUS NOTES
Justin Coleman Shooting Guard 6-5 210 Huntington Prep (WV) SG #15 95 Undeclared   
Maurice Walker Center 6-10 270 Brewster Academy (NH) C #9 92 Undeclared   
Xavier Jones Point Guard 6-3 210 Wayne H.S. (OH) PG #23 92 Undeclared   
Deonte Burton Shooting Guard 6-1 180 Centennial Senior H.S. (CA) SG #48 91 Undeclared   
Mike Poole Small Forward 6-6 180 St. Benedict's Prep (NJ) SF #44 89 Undeclared   
Keith DeWitt Power Forward 6-9 210 Ocean Academy (NJ) POST 89 Undeclared   
Seantrel Henderson Center 6-7 295 Cretin-Derham Hall H.S. (MN) C #34 88 Undeclared   
Josh Langford Small Forward 6-6 210 Lee H.S. (AL) SF #56 88 Undeclared   
Chim Kadima Shooting Guard 6-4 180 Lutheran H.S. (WI) SG #94 86 Undeclared   

[IAmMarquette]

Alright dude - I've given it some thought and my thoughts are:  1) I started the Green Bay thread and used data from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that showed 70% of respondents wanted Brett Farve to fail.  To me, people who harbor bitterness and want to spite someone - who at one time gave so much joy, and heart to those same people - because he moved on to a different relationship (after his EX (team) didn't want him anymore)..just seems small-minded and ignorant.  To me that's like if I dumped my 17 year girlfriend or wife for a younger model (Aaron Rodgers in the Packers case), and then wished bad toward her..was bitter toward her..just seems ignorant.  And, my decision to dump my girlfriend or wife for a younger model, very well might have been the right decision..as it seems in the Packers case..as Rogers has played phenomonally.  (For the record, I am not guilty of dumping anyone for a younger model  -but just painting the picture differently with that analogy.)

2) I'll try to be a bit more sensitive to the name calling you mention - though I didn't call Chicos an idiot, jerk, or anything else..just said his basketball IQ was lacking.  In fact I even wrote in one post that he writes well, is articulate..and ultimately is probalby an intelligent person..but with regard to basketball matters, that doesn't seem to be his strong suit.

Well, that's one account. Of course, it could have happened that McCarthy and Thompson did their exit interviews with Favre, as they do with every player, and said, "Listen, we'd be thrilled to have you back, but we need a decision before the draft (or sooner...whatever it may have been). We can't have you waiting until August to decide if you want to play."

When Favre realized the Packers were no longer willing to kiss his feet, he pulled the old "I'm taking my ball and going home" routine. Or maybe he really didn't know at the time, and the Packers weren't willing to wait around for him to decide. Perfectly reasonable on both sides, especially when you consider that the Packers had a guy in Aaron Rodgers who they thought (rightfully so, to this point) would be the future of the franchise.

I'll admit, I was bummed/surprised when Favre announced his retirement in 2008. When the whole "he-said-she-said" nonsense started that summer, I was a bit annoyed. When he demanded his outright release, he lost me. It makes absolutely no sense to release someone who you think can still play (as evidenced by Thompson/McCarthy's willingness to keep Favre under center, with the reasonable condition that he make up his mind sooner rather than later) when you could get some value for him in a trade. To do otherwise is just terrible business, and had Thompson allowed it, he should have been fired. Instead, he took what he could get for a guy who wasn't sure if he wanted to play anymore when the Packers needed to know whether or not they guy was all-in.

I was mostly apathetic towards "Brett the Jet," but when he "retired" to weasel his way out of that contract, just to sign with the Vikings, a direct threat to the success of the Packers, he became public enemy #1 in Wisconsin. And for that (and for the next few years), he can go f**k himself. And I don't feel bad saying it. As long as he's wearing purple, I hope he loses every f***ing  game he plays.


/Apologies for the rant/thread hijack.