MU's tuition: when will the madness end?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

If you want true supply and demand, get rid of the PLUS loans  and quit basing a student's financial need upon their parents' 1040's (instead, base it upon how much parents contribute to their education -- there are some deadbeat and cheap parents out there that contribute nothing yet make enough to prevent their children from obtaining the necessary aid).

+1 million. Difficult for a school to verify beforehand, but yes, the system utterly fails to recognize the variability in parents' contributions.

[damuts222]

 Tuition goes up due to the massive increase in students applying to college. NOT everyone should go to college. Students and parents need to sit down and look at the prospective of getting a job prior to majoring in a degree. I do understand that people will chase their dreams and I am all for it, but if it means it will be harder to obtain a job then you better work hard in school.

  Having worked as a project manager on public works projects you would be surprised that union workers (at least in Chicago) will make double sometimes triple what an engineer makes, at least when your salary. You don't have to go to college to be intelligent. Many of us have had kids in our classes who you knew weren't college material, just saying.

[reinko]

Generally speaking, Sultan is correct.  (even though he could have worded it a bit nicer   )  Wealthy families that can afford to pay sticker price, subsidize a lot of the aid many of the middle and lower income families get in grants.  And rest assured, MU and  most other schools have to have a minimum % of those types of students.  

The question then turns to if they do not have enough qualified kids from well-off backgrounds, concessions are made, and that is a fact.  As a practitioner in financial aid for over 5 years, most private colleges will be more lenient with admission standards for those families that can afford to pay full freight.  Admissions and financial aid offices talk to each other about these types of cases.  And if they come from a super-wealthy family ($1,000,000 + net worth), then development gets involved in these types decisions.

[GGGG]

Generally speaking, Sultan is correct.  (even though he could have worded it a bit nicer   )  Wealthy families that can afford to pay sticker price, subsidize a lot of the aid many of the middle and lower income families get in grants.  And rest assured, MU and  most other schools have to have a minimum % of those types of students.  

The question then turns to if they do not have enough qualified kids from well-off backgrounds, concessions are made, and that is a fact.  As a practitioner in financial aid for over 5 years, most private colleges will be more lenient with admission standards for those families that can afford to pay full freight.  Admissions and financial aid offices talk to each other about these types of cases.  And if they come from a super-wealthy family ($1,000,000 + net worth), then development gets involved in these types decisions.

Yeah, I know....I should have been nicer.

But you are correct.  If you are not getting a merit scholarship from Marquette, and they offer those before you fill out the FAFSA so they have no idea of your ability to pay, they are basically saying "you meet the standards to be accepted here, but you will have to pay full freight unless your financial aid indicates otherwise."

So I apologize for using the word "dumb," because dumb kids do not get into MU, but those kids not offered merit scholarships are on the lower end of those they accept.  That is simply the truth.

[Jam Chowder]

+1 million. Difficult for a school to verify beforehand, but yes, the system utterly fails to recognize the variability in parents' contributions.

I totally agree. I got NO help from financial aid because of my family's income, yet they did not contribute any money to my education. They weren't deadbeats, but the believed I should have to work at something and pay my own way. If I hadn't gotten the Raynor scholarship, I never would have been able to attend MU. Unfortunately, MU axed that scholarship (a HORRIBLE decision that I will probably always resent the administration for) in order to provide some "diversity-based" scholarships for inner-city kids... Not a bad thing in itself, but the university basically giving the finger to kids who are white and from middle-income backgrounds.

EDIT: To clarify, what I'm saying is that it seemed like the university was assuming that because of the background of Raynor recipients, they should be able to pay their way anyway... an inaccurate assumption in my case.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Rightly or wrongly, in the marketing world and in the business world, often the cost of something = perception.

If you price something high enough, the perceived value is higher.  Gucci vs something off the rack.  There is probably some of that going on here as well.  A brand positioning which price can drive to put the brand in an elite group.

[mu_hilltopper]

The bottom line from these anecdotes is .. the list price matters.

--

I'd like to see a chart that describes the college buyer marketplace, to see an estimate of the count of people in the US, who can afford 4-year private schools today, based on their income levels, and an estimate of that universe in 20-30 years, since Household income have basically flatlined in the past decade, while schooling costs rise 2x the CPI (or more, since the CPI is going sideways right now.)

My guess is that as that time horizon goes forward, the numbers drop to near zero.

[GGGG]

I totally agree. I got NO help from financial aid because of my family's income, yet they did not contribute any money to my education. They weren't deadbeats, but the believed I should have to work at something and pay my own way. If I hadn't gotten the Raynor scholarship, I never would have been able to attend MU. Unfortunately, MU axed that scholarship (a HORRIBLE decision that I will probably always resent the administration for) in order to provide some "diversity-based" scholarships for inner-city kids... Not a bad thing in itself, but the university basically giving the finger to kids who are white and from middle-income backgrounds.

EDIT: To clarify, what I'm saying is that it seemed like the university was assuming that because of the background of Raynor recipients, they should be able to pay their way anyway... an inaccurate assumption in my case.

You could have had yourself declared an independent, but I'm sure your parents still wanted to claim you as a dependent on their income tax forms.

[hdog1017]

Here's hoping that my future offspring are 7'0" tall and really good at basketball. 

[Marquette Mama]

So I apologize for using the word "dumb," because dumb kids do not get into MU, but those kids not offered merit scholarships are on the lower end of those they accept.  That is simply the truth.
[/quote]
Apology, while somewhat half-assed, accepted. Since you appear willing to adjust your phrasing, how about:
"Kids offered merit scholarships are on the higher end of those they accept."

I say this because I question how deep merit scholarships go at MU.  It was the only university where my low end, dumbsh*t student was not offered a scholarship.  My impression is that MU does not have very deep pockets when it comes to merit awards.  The size of their endowment compared to other universities would support my observation.

Time for all you smart MU alums to get out your checkbooks!

[LON]

So I apologize for using the word "dumb," because dumb kids do not get into MU, but those kids not offered merit scholarships are on the lower end of those they accept.  That is simply the truth.

Apology, while somewhat half-assed, accepted. Since you appear willing to adjust your phrasing, how about:
"Kids offered merit scholarships are on the higher end of those they accept."

I say this because I question how deep merit scholarships go at MU.  It was the only university where my low end, dumbsh*t student was not offered a scholarship.  My impression is that MU does not have very deep pockets when it comes to merit awards.  The size of their endowment compared to other universities would support my observation.

Time for all you smart MU alums to get out your checkbooks!

Awesome.

[reinko]

I totally agree. I got NO help from financial aid because of my family's income, yet they did not contribute any money to my education. They weren't deadbeats, but the believed I should have to work at something and pay my own way. If I hadn't gotten the Raynor scholarship, I never would have been able to attend MU. Unfortunately, MU axed that scholarship (a HORRIBLE decision that I will probably always resent the administration for) in order to provide some "diversity-based" scholarships for inner-city kids... Not a bad thing in itself, but the university basically giving the finger to kids who are white and from middle-income backgrounds.

EDIT: To clarify, what I'm saying is that it seemed like the university was assuming that because of the background of Raynor recipients, they should be able to pay their way anyway... an inaccurate assumption in my case.

Damn inner city poor kids always sticking it to those white middle class males.

[Jay Bee]

Cheapskates.

[GGGG]

Apology, while somewhat half-assed, accepted. Since you appear willing to adjust your phrasing, how about:
"Kids offered merit scholarships are on the higher end of those they accept."

I say this because I question how deep merit scholarships go at MU.  It was the only university where my low end, dumbsh*t student was not offered a scholarship.  My impression is that MU does not have very deep pockets when it comes to merit awards.  The size of their endowment compared to other universities would support my observation.

Time for all you smart MU alums to get out your checkbooks!

I must admit...you made me laugh!

Anyway, you may very well be right because, and I have mentioned this before, my my son's most expensive option by far was Marquette. 

But it is interesting that your daughter decided to go there anyway.

[Sheriff]

So I apologize for using the word "dumb," because dumb kids do not get into MU, but those kids not offered merit scholarships are on the lower end of those they accept.  That is simply the truth.

Apology, while somewhat half-assed, accepted. Since you appear willing to adjust your phrasing, how about:
"Kids offered merit scholarships are on the higher end of those they accept."

I say this because I question how deep merit scholarships go at MU.  It was the only university where my low end, dumbsh*t student was not offered a scholarship.  My impression is that MU does not have very deep pockets when it comes to merit awards.  The size of their endowment compared to other universities would support my observation.

Time for all you smart MU alums to get out your checkbooks!

Some facts:

26% of all full-time undergraduates enrolled in 2008 had non-need based (i.e merit) scholarships or grants.  81% of them were not determined to have financial need.

All the data are included in the MU Common Data Set 2008 - 2009 published by the Marquette University Office of Institutional Research & Assessment.

FWIW - my dumb@$$ son turned down scholarship offers to get a Jesuit education that he has parlayed into a very successful engineering career.  His "rich" father is counting on him to supplement his early retirement!

[GGGG]

Some facts:

26% of all full-time undergraduates enrolled in 2008 had non-need based (i.e merit) scholarships or grants.  81% of them were not determined to have financial need.

That's it!??!!!  Wow...I'm really sorry about my comments then.

[Jam Chowder]

Damn inner city poor kids always sticking it to those white middle class males.

Not quite what I was implying, but it's we're speaking in internets, so I understand that I may not have communicated my point very well.

I'm saying that there should be a place for both. I think it's unfortunate that MU doesn't make Merit based scholarships much of a priority. I think it's sad when scholarship programs are cut. Especially scholarships that made it possible for me to got to college. It would be nice to see need-based and merit-based scholarships coexist. It seems to me from my admittedly limited knowledge that MU sees them as mutually exclusive, probably for financial reasons. that is all.

[deep vacuum]

Here's hoping that my future offspring are 7'0" tall and really good at basketball. 

You or your spouse, could also become a future Marquette university employee.  As a Marquette faculty, administration or staff employee, a free education at Marquette for your kids could be in your future.  Many other universities have a similar arrangement for their employees.

[reinko]

Not quite what I was implying, but it's we're speaking in internets, so I understand that I may not have communicated my point very well.

I'm saying that there should be a place for both. I think it's unfortunate that MU doesn't make Merit based scholarships much of a priority. I think it's sad when scholarship programs are cut. Especially scholarships that made it possible for me to got to college. It would be nice to see need-based and merit-based scholarships coexist. It seems to me from my admittedly limited knowledge that MU sees them as mutually exclusive, probably for financial reasons. that is all.

Damn internets and it's series of tubes and widgets.  I totally agree with your above post.

[spartan3186]

Everybody needs to stop worrying. I learned tonight that all student loans are going to be forgiven 20 years after graduation, and if you go into public service all student loans will be forgiven after 10 year. Everybody just take out more loans!

[BME to MD]

Everybody needs to stop worrying. I learned tonight that all student loans are going to be forgiven 20 years after graduation, and if you go into public service all student loans will be forgiven after 10 year. Everybody just take out more loans!

Great plan except that the stipulation was no more than 10% of income for 20 years (10 if public service).  

$40,000/year would come out to total of $80,000 over 20 years.  

Maximum amount a dependent undergraduate student can take out in federal Stafford loans: $31,000 ($57,000 for an independent student).

[spartan3186]

I'm aware, my comments probably should have been in teal.

[GGGG]

Not quite what I was implying, but it's we're speaking in internets, so I understand that I may not have communicated my point very well.

I'm saying that there should be a place for both. I think it's unfortunate that MU doesn't make Merit based scholarships much of a priority. I think it's sad when scholarship programs are cut. Especially scholarships that made it possible for me to got to college. It would be nice to see need-based and merit-based scholarships coexist. It seems to me from my admittedly limited knowledge that MU sees them as mutually exclusive, probably for financial reasons. that is all.

Did they cut your scholarship when you were part way through school?

[Jam Chowder]

Did they cut your scholarship when you were part way through school?

They cut the scholarship my sophomore year. Those already awarded it were allowed to finish out their 4 years. So, if I remember correctly, the class of 2010 was the last class to have Raynor recipients.

[PBRme]

Most people don't understand that public universities are only minimally supported by the state.  In Wisconsin for instance, the UW schools are by and large have less than a quarter of their budgets provided by taxes.  UW-Madison's percentage is so low that they are actively contemplating asking the State to allow it to set tuition on its own (right now the legislature has the final say) in return for giving up all tax support.

A generation ago, it was over 50%.

All of this ignores the critical point that educational spending is increasing at a rate 1-2% higher than the rate of inflation.  While state direct funding is now "ONLY" about $1 Billion annually if increases had been more in line with inflation the states share would have remained stable.

The technology and energy explanation is spurious at best.  Even with energy costs doubling I doubt they are even 5-7% of total costs. 

A wise man once told me "cost only leave or enter an organization on two feet"