MU's tuition: when will the madness end?

[Sir Lawrence]

BOT approves a 4.7% increase for undergrads for next academic year.  Good grief.

http://marquettetribune.org/2010/01/26/news/tuition-tdz1-ml2-mn3-undergraduate-tuition-rates-will-top-30000-next-year/

[mu_hilltopper]

Makes you wonder if, like any multi-million dollar organization, they have a plan for the future.   

Every year that ticks by, the number of people who can afford this, or simply tolerate it, goes downward.

20-30 years from now, as tuition increases outstrip personal income increases every single year, few will tolerate paying $100k for a year at Marquette.  Financial aid and loans are stretched now in 2010, let alone a generation from now .. not a valid plan.

Unreal.

[Clam Crowder]

look at the tuition of schools in the northeast before u start whining because kids from the northeast are starting to come here in increased numbers. 7 people from the smallest state in the country came here last year. Its not that bad

[ChicosBailBonds]

What choice do they have.  If they want to keep good faculty, they have to give them raises at 3 to 4% each year. Other costs going up as well.  They don't have a choice really.  If you cap increases, then something else has to give.


With the amount of money going to financial aid, many private university students are getting a better deal than public school kids.

[mu_hilltopper]

look at the tuition of schools in the northeast before u start whining because kids from the northeast are starting to come here in increased numbers. 7 people from the smallest state in the country came here last year. Its not that bad

Oh, so there are even more expensive schools than MU, so we shouldn't be concerned?

Well, that changes everything!

[Sir Lawrence]

If they want to keep good faculty, they have to give them raises at 3 to 4% each year. Other costs going up as well.

With the amount of money going to financial aid, many private university students are getting a better deal than public school kids.

I'm on my last child.  Sophomore at Dayton.  Two of the other offspring went private college.  One went to UW.  Trust me, the public option was tremendously cheaper.  

My brother is a full bird professor at MU.  He's not gotten an 4% raise ever.

[Clam Crowder]

I'm saying that for a private institution the tuition here is still not that bad. If the school wants to become more prominent tuition increase is inevitable.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm on my last child.  Sophomore at Dayton.  Two of the other offspring went private college.  One went to UW.  Trust me, the public option was tremendously cheaper.  

My brother is a full bird professor at MU.  He's not gotten an 4% raise ever.

I just read an article the other day talking about how in some cases the private school might be the better deal.  I'll try to dig it up and post it, that's what I was referencing.  How long has your brother been there to have never received a 4% raise?

When I was in athletics, raises were decent.

[GGGG]

It's not the list...it's the discount.

I have said this before, but my son is a freshman at Butler.  With the scholarships and financial aid he is receiving (institutional financial aid...not federal), we are paying just a couple thousand more than IU's in-state tuition.  (He received neither scholarships or financial aid at IU.)

What the privates do is target the kids they *really* want and throw money at them.  If others want to pay more, so be it.  For those of us who went to college in the 80s and before, it is a completely different deal now than it was then.

[Hards Alumni]

It's not the list...it's the discount.

I have said this before, but my son is a freshman at Butler.  With the scholarships and financial aid he is receiving (institutional financial aid...not federal), we are paying just a couple thousand more than IU's in-state tuition.  (He received neither scholarships or financial aid at IU.)

What the privates do is target the kids they *really* want and throw money at them.  If others want to pay more, so be it.  For those of us who went to college in the 80s and before, it is a completely different deal now than it was then.

This is what happened to me.  I had a TON of financial aid, but good scores, GPA, and tons of EC activities.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I remember business faculty members bitching all the time that they didn't get an increase anywhere near the amount of a tuition increase. Business faculty. They could have easily been exaggerating, though ...

There's certainly fat to be cut. I'm sure you'd agree, Chicos. It's like any other bureaucracy. Also, stop forcing students to live in dorms that cost $12,000 to live and eat in for 8 months out of the year, for starters.

I am loathe to agree to this, but MU is about average, maybe a bit higher based on Wisconsin's cost of living, with other private schools. I don't see how most of them can continue the madness.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

It's not the list...it's the discount.

I have said this before, but my son is a freshman at Butler.  With the scholarships and financial aid he is receiving (institutional financial aid...not federal), we are paying just a couple thousand more than IU's in-state tuition.  (He received neither scholarships or financial aid at IU.)

The discounts are incredibly shrinking relative to tuition. When I was a frosh ('03-'04), one of the scholarships I received, the Ignatius or something, was $8,000. That had to be about a third of (just) tuition my freshman year. Now? It's about a fourth. I don't think donations and grants are nearly keeping up the pace with tuition increases.

[Keelsmeals]

Tuition increases like these are happening across the board. The UW system went up 5.5% last year (and that's one of their smallest percentage increases in the last decade), Loyola Chicago was 4.0% last year (and they also increased meal plans and student fees), Notre Dame was 4.4% last year (lowest percentage increase since 1960).

My university had a 5.5% tuition increase last year, but the actual increase in cost to educate students increased by 30-35%, much of that in energy and technology costs. Damn kids want their heat... 

There are hundreds of articles written about setting tuition prices, appropriate increases, etc. Some of administrators of the northeastern schools have gone on record saying that consumers believe there is a positive correlation between tuition and academic prestige: the higher the tuition, the more prestigious the institution. The reality is this: across the board, student enrollment is up and the number of students that pay full price is up. Until that trend changes, there's no incentive to change policies especially at private institutions. I don't like it and I think it's borderline unethical, but I get it.

And just a point of clarification: Faculty and staff at universities across the country - and not just the public universities- have had salary freezes, or have been asked to take pay cuts, or have required furloughs to deal with all the budget deficits at universities. Remember the whole Calhoun "not giving back a penny" incident last year? These measures are happening despite the tuition increases. Tuition only covers a fraction of an institution's operating costs. There are places where faculty are getting 4% raises every year, but that is often because their salaries are funded wholly or partially by research grants and the salary increases are written into the grant budget. Some places are managing with cost of living increases, but MOST higher education institutions are really struggling right now. MOST universities are public and operating with fewer state resources (think University of Wisconsin-Green Bay or Cal State Fullerton), and most of the privates don't have the resources of Harvard or Stanford.

[GGGG]

Tuition increases like these are happening across the board. The UW system went up 5.5% last year (and that's one of their smallest percentage increases in the last decade), Loyola Chicago was 4.0% last year (and they also increased meal plans and student fees), Notre Dame was 4.4% last year (lowest percentage increase since 1960).

My university had a 5.5% tuition increase last year, but the actual increase in cost to educate students increased by 30-35%, much of that in energy and technology costs. Damn kids want their heat... 

There are hundreds of articles written about setting tuition prices, appropriate increases, etc. Some of administrators of the northeastern schools have gone on record saying that consumers believe there is a positive correlation between tuition and academic prestige: the higher the tuition, the more prestigious the institution. The reality is this: across the board, student enrollment is up and the number of students that pay full price is up. Until that trend changes, there's no incentive to change policies especially at private institutions. I don't like it and I think it's borderline unethical, but I get it.

And just a point of clarification: Faculty and staff at universities across the country - and not just the public universities- have had salary freezes, or have been asked to take pay cuts, or have required furloughs to deal with all the budget deficits at universities. Remember the whole Calhoun "not giving back a penny" incident last year? These measures are happening despite the tuition increases. Tuition only covers a fraction of an institution's operating costs. There are places where faculty are getting 4% raises every year, but that is often because their salaries are funded wholly or partially by research grants and the salary increases are written into the grant budget. Some places are managing with cost of living increases, but MOST higher education institutions are really struggling right now. MOST universities are public and operating with fewer state resources (think University of Wisconsin-Green Bay or Cal State Fullerton), and most of the privates don't have the resources of Harvard or Stanford.

Most people don't understand that public universities are only minimally supported by the state.  In Wisconsin for instance, the UW schools are by and large have less than a quarter of their budgets provided by taxes.  UW-Madison's percentage is so low that they are actively contemplating asking the State to allow it to set tuition on its own (right now the legislature has the final say) in return for giving up all tax support.

A generation ago, it was over 50%.

[Sir Lawrence]

I just read an article the other day talking about how in some cases the private school might be the better deal.  I'll try to dig it up and post it, that's what I was referencing.  How long has your brother been there to have never received a 4% raise?

When I was in athletics, raises were decent.

A lot of the aid is income dependent, but they don't factor in how many kids you might have in college at the same time.

My brother has been a prof at Marquette for more than 25 years.  I don't know what his raises were 15 years ago, but there is no way he has gotten a 4% raise in the last 10.  On the other hand, he has summers off!

[77ncaachamps]

I say we create our own college: MUScoollege.

Charge cheaper tuition and have the board members teach everything they specialize in:
Hayward - public discourse and netiquette
Chicos - modern issues in sports networking
bma725 - recognizing talent
Sugar - Stats 101

THEN...we can start charter schools ALL OVER the nation. Have them feed into our MUScoolleges so we can *kaching* be in the money (and help fund this site...probably trick it out a little more ).

But then the MUSCoolleges would start to get expensive, so we'll spin that off...and focus on our charter schools (since a large % of state budgets go to fund K-12 education).

Oh, and I almost forgot.

Our mascots? WARRIORS

[muhoosier260]

MU undergraduate tuition will be slightly over $30K next year. To compare, MU law school tuition this year is $32.4K. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE BOOKS, HOUSING, TRANSPORTATION, OR ANY OTHER PERSONAL EXPENSES. Realistically you're looking at approx. $50K. This doesn't seem right, not only for an undergraduate, but that an undergraduate education is comparable to a law school education. I started MU in fall '05 and I want to say tuition was around $24K. My sister graduated from Valpo (private) in '99, tuition was something around $15K.

Fr. Wild now says "nearly 90% of MU students receive financial aid". I know a private school education is expensive, but, 90%?! This means its too damn expensive. Something needs to be done. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions, but this is ridiculous. Private school education -- gov't assistance or not-- will not be affordable in less than a decade if this trend continues. It makes you wonder what impact this will have on private schools and higher education in general.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Also, stop forcing students to live in dorms that cost $12,000 to live and eat in for 8 months out of the year, for starters.

+10000. It will never happen though, MU loves to use the rules (gender hours and such designed to keep kids from, um, doing "unethical activities" with each other) as part of their "Catholic Identity," and they make bank on it.

[GGGG]

Fr. Wild now says "nearly 90% of MU students receive financial aid". I know a private school education is expensive, but, 90%?! This means its too damn expensive. Something needs to be done. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions, but this is ridiculous. Private school education -- gov't assistance or not-- will not be affordable in less than a decade if this trend continues. It makes you wonder what impact this will have on private schools and higher education in general.

The reason 90% of the kids get financial aid is because....once again...IT'S NOT THE LIST, IT'S THE DISCOUNT.  Marquette has record applications and close to record enrollment.  But only 10% of the students pay full price.  Without sounding too harsh, those are the rich, dumb kids...who subsidize the poor, smart ones.  It's a shell game to maximize revenue.

[MU1984]

Supply and demand.

[Marquette Mama]

  Without sounding too harsh, those are the rich, dumb kids...who subsidize the poor, smart ones.  It's a shell game to maximize revenue.

Wow Sultan, as a "10%" parent who paid sticker price for 4 years... I find your assessment truly offensive.  My kid is not stupid -- rather the product of a household that worked and saved since her birth for her education. It's comments like this that make kids and parents who CAN afford to pay full price grub around for scholarships they don't truly need -- diminishing funds available for those who do require help.

[4everwarriors]

Ma is 100% correct. Besides, as I very well know, the highly selective universities do not give merit money, period.

[GGGG]

Wow Sultan, as a "10%" parent who paid sticker price for 4 years... I find your assessment truly offensive.  My kid is not stupid -- rather the product of a household that worked and saved since her birth for her education. It's comments like this that make kids and parents who CAN afford to pay full price grub around for scholarships they don't truly need -- diminishing funds available for those who do require help.

They didn't offer her merit scholarships???  I wonder why, since those are given out long before you fill out the FAFSA....

Hmmmm....

[GGGG]

Ma is 100% correct. Besides, as I very well know, the highly selective universities do not give merit money, period.

But Marquette does.  We're not talking Harvard here.

[Benny B]

With financial aid, UW would have cost me $3500/yr back in my day, two small private colleges in Wisconsin would have cost me about $4000-5000/yr, and MU was $6000/yr or so with aid.  And that included room and board.
(Note -- my numbers may not be exact - it was a while ago - but my point is how relatively close the numbers were after considering the whole package.)

As long as society continues to propagate the idea that parents should be mostly responsible for the financial aspect of their children's college education, then tuition will continue to increase everywhere, not just the private institutions.  If you want true supply and demand, get rid of the PLUS loans  and quit basing a student's financial need upon their parents' 1040's (instead, base it upon how much parents contribute to their education -- there are some deadbeat and cheap parents out there that contribute nothing yet make enough to prevent their children from obtaining the necessary aid).  Increase Stafford lending and Pell grants to undergrads, bump up the higher education tax credits, raise the student loan interest deduction limits, and let students take ownership of their education without having to rely upon Mom and Dad.  You'd be surprised at how fast tuition drops to adjust to the new paradigm.

But that's coming from someone who paid his own way.