Buzz Comments

[karavotsos]

First, you don't even mention rebounding.  Clearly that's not an important part of the game, so we can just ignore that.

Second, you can't tell me that great big men don't make a game easier for guards defensively because when you get beat, there is a second line of defense waiting to block the shot.  Marquette didn't get points in the paint against Georgetown or Syracuse because when our guards got there, they couldn't shoot with the bigs in the lane.  We penetrated past the guards and got there.  The bigs made it near impossible to finish.  If you have a guard like Dominic James, I guess he could also fill this role -- see block of Scotty Hopson.

Third, the argument that a guard can score independently seems to be an argument to me that its better to have a great guard because he has the ability to jack up shots whenever he feels like it.  Seems to be a double-edged sword.  There's nothing more impressive than a big who gets his own playing with a guard like that by going to the glass.

If you're saying that without any point guard, you will struggle mightily, that's fine.  That seems pretty obvious, especially if you saw Marquette Diener's senior season when he was injured.  I still like a 6'9" guy so big he struggles to dunk the basketball, a la Robert Jackson or Damon Key.  And I hate it that Ousmane Barro played basketball at MU for 4 years and he didn't even learn how to post up.  It's not just a guard's game.

I still don't see how that makes the NCAA game a guard's game. 

[IAmMarquette]

First, you don't even mention rebounding.  Clearly that's not an important part of the game, so we can just ignore that.

Second, you can't tell me that great big men don't make a game easier for guards defensively because when you get beat, there is a second line of defense waiting to block the shot.  Marquette didn't get points in the paint against Georgetown or Syracuse because when our guards got there, they couldn't shoot with the bigs in the lane.  We penetrated past the guards and got there.  The bigs made it near impossible to finish.  If you have a guard like Dominic James, I guess he could also fill this role -- see block of Scotty Hopson.

Third, the argument that a guard can score independently seems to be an argument to me that its better to have a great guard because he has the ability to jack up shots whenever he feels like it.  Seems to be a double-edged sword.  There's nothing more impressive than a big who gets his own playing with a guard like that by going to the glass.

If you're saying that without any point guard, you will struggle mightily, that's fine.  That seems pretty obvious, especially if you saw Marquette Diener's senior season when he was injured.  I still like a 6'9" guy so big he struggles to dunk the basketball, a la Robert Jackson or Damon Key.  And I hate it that Ousmane Barro played basketball at MU for 4 years and he didn't even learn how to post up.  It's not just a guard's game.

I still don't see how that makes the NCAA game a guard's game. 

The bold is exactly the point (no pun intended). Without a PG, you will struggle MIGHTILY (see MU, 2003-04). Without a true big, you can still be very competitive (see MU since 2004). Of course, it's ideal to have both. But if you can only have one, you take the guards.

[77ncaachamps]

Are people here defining a BIG MAN by position (F/C) or by height (6'6"+)?

Just wondering...

[NotAnAlum]

This argument is getting a little dumb.  Yes guards are more important in college but that doesn't mean that you can have a team made up entirely of guards and expect to be successful.  According to Pomeroy we are in the bottom 10% in terms of team height in all of division 1.  Syracuse is in the top 3%.  And we got beat in the paint.  Wow that's a surprise.  Its a miracle that the game was as close as it was.  Keep in mind that The Syracuse guards aren't exactly low major players.  We've simply got to find a way to get some serviceable front line players.  Its true Buzz has had some very bad luck PFs and Centers but we've got to catch a break and get somebody who can at least defend down low.  No other high major team has to play like this.  Its getting a little old.

[bma725]

Generally, when people talk about who's game it is, they are talking about scoring the ball and defense, because those two things contribute directly to winning the game, and rebounding doesn't.  Rebounding is nice, but you don't need to win the rebounding battle to win the game. 

Scoring independently has nothing to do with jacking up shots, it has to do with who has the ball more and who can create shots on their own.  At some point you're going to be faced with a situation where the offense you run isn't working, or the clock is running down and you need someone to create their own scoring opportunity.  Guards can do that, big men can't.  Big men need to be in proper position, and have the ball thrown at the right time, when they are in the right spot to the right catchable area.  Guards don't. 

Big men can't control a game without guards helping them, guards can control a game without the help of a big man.  It's not just the NCAA, it's basketball in general.  That's why guys like Coach K have been saying it for years...and he's had some damn good big men.

[karavotsos]

We had Ous and Burke, who were at least bigs.  Novak was 6'11" and in his senior season he didn't just shoot. He rebounded.

Sizewize, having Burke, Hayward, Butler and Matthews across the front was not awful.  I think this year is the best example of the struggles that a team can have without any bigs, and the struggles are beginning to become similar to those without Diener.  You look at the stats today where we force 20+ turnovers and give up shooting at what? 55%, it shows that we have to play ball pressure high risk defense because we can't play inside.  Look at the NC State game in which number 23 ate us alive.  Just like a team without a point guard is susceptible to teams with even mediocre pressure and mediocre guards, a team without big men is susceptible to mediocre big men.  The only thing saving us this year against big men are: 1. Hayward plays much bigger than his size; 2. Hayward and Butler rebound like madmen, and the team as a whole rebounds very well; 3. Buzz and his staff have done a great job of coaching and gameplanning the players to deal with the size deficiency.  

I am pretty sure that Diener MU team still made the NIT.  They were competitive.  They were just frustrating to watch because they couldn't break a mediocre press.  Just like this team couldn't contain a mediocre #23 on NC State.  So I think you can play close games either way.  It just makes it really hard to win.  

[MarquetteDano]

For those who don't believe it is a guard's game, why haven't I seen a team with four big men get major minutes and just one guard starts?  Because not only can a point to a few four guard offenses in major Div 1 basketball, a few of them are quite successful.

Is there a division one team today playing with the following starting lineup...

G
F
F
F
C

Maybe there is one out there.  If someone can show me that team and show they are successful, I will agree it is NOT a guard's game.

[Doris Burkes Thong]

For those who don't believe it is a guard's game, why haven't I seen a team with four big men get major minutes and just one guard starts?  Because not only can a point to a few four guard offenses in major Div 1 basketball, a few of them are quite successful.

Is there a division one team today playing with the following starting lineup...

G
F
F
F
C

Maybe there is one out there.  If someone can show me that team and show they are successful, I will agree it is NOT a guard's game.

Yeah, West Virginia is.

[MarquetteDano]

Yeah, West Virginia is.

West Virginia is G-F-F-F-F

[karavotsos]

Rebounding is nice, but you don't need to win the rebounding battle to win the game. 

That's why guys like Coach K have been saying it for years...and he's had some damn good big men.

Coach K's top 5 Big Men:

Laetner
Boozer
Gminski?
Parks?
Zubak?  
Dunleavy?

I have no idea.  I hope the Coach K stuff was in jest.  I respect Taylor King's opinion on Duke's emphasis on D and rebounding.

[karavotsos]

Sorry Elton Brand; Ferry?

[77ncaachamps]

West Virginia is G-F-F-F-F

Doesn't Florida State play g-f-f-f-c?

[Doris Burkes Thong]

West Virginia is G-F-F-F-F

Same crap different pile. In fact, against MU they started 5 bigs - Kevin Jones, Wellington Smith, John Flowers, Devin Ebanks, and De'Shean Butler. The bottom line is they're usually playing 4 bigs on the floor at one time and sometimes even 5.

[bma725]

Same crap different pile. In fact, against MU they started 5 bigs - Kevin Jones, Wellington Smith, John Flowers, Devin Ebanks, and De'Shean Butler. The bottom line is they're usually playing 4 bigs on the floor at one time and sometimes even 5.

They're playing four tall guys, but not a one is a true big man.  Ebanks is forward that often plays guard.  Butler is forward that often plays guard.  Jones, Smith and Flowers are all forwards.  Calling them bigs is like calling Steve Novak a big. 

[bma725]

Doesn't Florida State play g-f-f-f-c?

Nope.  FSU's top 5 guys in terms of minutes are Alabi, Dulkys, Singleton, Kitchen and Snaer...so G-G-G-F-C.  They normally start G-G-F-F-C, but Ryan Reid's minutes have been dropping in favor of Snaer.  Of their top 9 guys in minutes, meaning those that player more than 10 minutes a game, 4 are guards, 2 are centers and 3 are forwards.

[MarquetteDano]

They're playing four tall guys, but not a one is a true big man.  Ebanks is forward that often plays guard.  Butler is forward that often plays guard.  Jones, Smith and Flowers are all forwards.  Calling them bigs is like calling Steve Novak a big. 

Have to agree with BMA on this.  How is Flowers and Ebanks "bigs" at 215lbs?

Though, Doris's Thong is right that they can be succesful with only one "true" guard.  However, if they had two true bigs (post up only players) with one guard they would turn it over 30 times a game.  That is why I mentioned the G-F-F-F-C as this normally indicates two post players.

[bma725]

Make fun all you want, but Coach K has had a ton of great college big men since he got there.  Laettner, Brand, McLeod, Boozer, Alarie, Sheldon Williams, Ferry...all of whom were 1st or 2nd team All Americans.  And that doesn't include guys like Abdelnaby, Lang, McRoberts, and Nessley, who weren't All Americans but still had good enough careers as big men at Duke to get drafted and play in the NBA.

[4everwarriors]

Is it coincidence then, that Duke continually has gone to the FF with guys like Gminski? In fact, look at the last 10 Final Fours and list the 40 teams who played in them. How many made it there without at least 1 or 2 bigmen.
Look, all 5 positions are important. That's the way the game is played. If you don't have legitimate players at each of the spots, the compromises you have to make rarely work out. Marquette will continue to get abused with a lack of height.

[Sheriff]

Are people here defining a BIG MAN by position (F/C) or by height (6'6"+)?

Just wondering...

6'10" and 260 lbs.  Robert Jackson.

[MUEng92]

This.

A little help for the ignorant.  Can someone explain the recent use of "this"?  Is it the long-winded version of "+1"?

[4everwarriors]

Used in the same context as "word."

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Used in the same context as "word."

which is a shortened version of "word to your mother."

[connie]

Seriously?  Cuse had 22 more boards and 10 more blocks than we did and we only lost by five?  Unreal. 

Tired of moral victories, but WOW.

VERY tired, but WOW.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is it coincidence then, that Duke continually has gone to the FF with guys like Gminski? In fact, look at the last 10 Final Fours and list the 40 teams who played in them. How many made it there without at least 1 or 2 bigmen.
Look, all 5 positions are important. That's the way the game is played. If you don't have legitimate players at each of the spots, the compromises you have to make rarely work out. Marquette will continue to get abused with a lack of height.

No one is arguing that 4ever.  Of course you need bigs to go all the way, but bigs alone cannot do it.  If you don't have great guards you have NO CHANCE.  If you do have great guards, you do have a chance even absent great bigs.  Plus, there are very few solid bigs out there so it's a percentage game.

Let's look at it another way.  David Robinson at Navy, one of the greatest centers ever.  If he had guards at Navy, could have gone very far in the tournament.  A dominant big man alone, is not going to get it done.  But without a dominant big man, you can still be very successful and go far.

George Mason, Villanova, St. Joe's, etc, etc, etc   George Mason didn't even have a center on their team.  Not one kid over 6'7"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_George_Mason_Patriots_men%27s_basketball_team#2005-2006_roster


I don't think anyone is arguing against Buzz landing as many quality big men as he can, of course we all want that.  But the fact of the matter is, there are few of them out there and everyone wants them.  You can without them.  You CANNOT win without great guards.  That is why college basketball coaches continuously say it's a guards game....because it is.

[pbiflyer]

Hehas been recruiting for almost 3 years now, and still has not landed one. Trying does not cut it--landing them does!!

Actually, he has gotten several. They were injured, had legal trouble, or left.