The TOKOTO Sweepstakes--2012

[GGGG]

But why can just about every low major school get players 6'8" and above who at least know what sport they're playing and we can't?  Boise State's current roster has four of them. 

I am fairly certain that Buzz could get four 6'8" guys if he really wanted, but what sacrifices would he have to make athletically to get them?  I mean, he got a 7'2" guy in Mbao, and you complain that he isn't good enough.  It's not like 7'2" athletic basketball players grow on trees you know.

[shaquilvaine]

Ben Mills is not good enough to play at Marquette... end of story.  MU took a long look at him.  He has been to several games.  Hard-working kid, but not high major material.  Rarely if ever dunks despite being 7' 2".  .  He will take a long time to develop.  Otule and Yous are much more athletic.  Yous runs the floor much better and Otule has a much better body for the big east.  Both have much more upside.  Mills may prove me wrong, but we'll see.

[MR.HAYWARD]

But why can just about every low major school get players 6'8" and above who at least know what sport they're playing and we can't?  Boise State's current roster has four of them.  Sure they're all juniors and seniors, but they're all contributing.  The "worst" averages 4.7 points and 3.6 rebounds in 10 minutes.  The way Mbao is going he might not score 4.7 points in his entire career.  And Dwight Burke as a senior couldn't even get as many points and had about the same number of rebounds in twice as much time (comparing to BSU's FOURTH best big), and Burke didn't fare any better during cupcake season when we play competition that might be worse than what BSU plays against.

Chapman that is a really dumb paragraph.  Burke did not score much for MU for 2 main reasons.  First, becuase at most times last year he was the 5th best scoring option on the court.  the other 4 players are either in the NBA or will spend time in NBA team camps, Summer leagues, or such.  Second, because he was typically guarded by some of the top big men in the entire country.

If Burke was on the Boise State team...I will say this sight unseen he would have been either their best or second best option.  He would be a much higher focal point of their offense and in most cases he would be being guarded by an inferior player. 

You do realize a kid like Frozena scored 18 points a game and was an all-conference player in HS yet looks like an utter child out there, right.  A guy like a Myamon can be a two time all state player and look like a fish out of water as a freshman...you simply dont understand how difficult it is to step up a class.  Dwight buycks set scoring records in JUCO  as an AA and at times has looked lost this year.  Just becuase a kid has looked like a terror at a lower level does not mean it will translate to the next. 

[MR.HAYWARD]

But no one is going to put you in the Hall of Fame for recruiting well.  I have no problem with the idea that it is 90% of the game, but unless you can coach, the other 10% is going to be a failure.

so are you saying you dont think Buzz can coach?

we yu saying that same thing last year when he had the talent and stood at 9-0 in the Big East and ranked #8 in the country.  Could he coach then?

Was GAry Waters a good coach when his team was in the Elite 8 and then became a bad coach at Rutgers when he had the worst talent in the BE? 
Please explain... I would really love to hear your explanation. 

[Hards Alumni]

so are you saying you dont think Buzz can coach?

we yu saying that same thing last year when he had the talent and stood at 9-0 in the Big East and ranked #8 in the country.  Could he coach then?

Was GAry Waters a good coach when his team was in the Elite 8 and then became a bad coach at Rutgers when he had the worst talent in the BE? 
Please explain... I would really love to hear your explanation. 

Hayward, that is totally jumping to conclusions.  He never said anything like that.

He simply stated the obvious.

[avid1010]

Hayward, that is totally jumping to conclusions.  He never said anything like that.

He simply stated the obvious.

Yeah, nice response. 

Hayward please answer the following:

Do you think Buzz can coach?

Could he coach last year when they were at 9-0 in the BEAST?

When did Gary Waters take a team to the Elite 8?  Kind of defeats your point?

[GGGG]

so are you saying you dont think Buzz can coach?

we yu saying that same thing last year when he had the talent and stood at 9-0 in the Big East and ranked #8 in the country.  Could he coach then?

Was GAry Waters a good coach when his team was in the Elite 8 and then became a bad coach at Rutgers when he had the worst talent in the BE? 
Please explain... I would really love to hear your explanation. 

Good lord...stop jumping to conclusions.  All I was responding to was the original poster's thought that by simply getting J.P. that Buzz makes the Hall of Fame.  I never said that Buzz couldn't coach.

[PBRme]

so are you saying you dont think Buzz can coach?

we yu saying that same thing last year when he had the talent and stood at 9-0 in the Big East and ranked #8 in the country.  Could he coach then?

Was GAry Waters a good coach when his team was in the Elite 8 and then became a bad coach at Rutgers when he had the worst talent in the BE? 
Please explain... I would really love to hear your explanation. 

Mr. Hayward does your keyboard have all of it's keys (letters)?

[chapman]

Secondly, take a look at the offense BSU runs and compare how big men are utilized in that offense to how MU has used big men since Merritt graduated.  You think Dwight Burke ever came close to getting that many touches or was ever counted on to score on his own like those players are?  Of course not.  In a similar situation, with similar usage, he'd provide similar results.  But he was playing in an offense where he was never going see any of that, so to compare the numbers without any context is useless.

Then maybe we need to do something about our offense.  If a 6-8 senior starter on a Big East team getting 20 minutes per game has the lowest scoring average of any regular starter in the country and can't even pull down 4 rebounds something isn't right.  There's a free pass for this year because of health problems/injuries/transfers, but it's going to be very frustrating if we have to play in the best conference with a lineup that is smaller than 330-some other teams any longer than this.  It's sad to see UWM and UWGB with players that have size and also don't need a special teaching session to guard an inbounds play and us trying to compete against the likes of Harangody, Onuaku, Monroe, and Samuels but still hoping that maybe some Juco project with the talent to play for Central Connecticut State might play for us instead.

[wildbillsb]

Will you people quit picking on Mr. H.?  Without him, MUScoop would be a very boring forum, indeed.  His writing/typing mis-mechanics notwithstanding, he is provocative, opinionated, and insightful more often than not. And his love for MU is unsurpassed.  What's not to like?

[MR.HAYWARD]

Yeah, nice response.  

Hayward please answer the following:

Do you think Buzz can coach?

Could he coach last year when they were at 9-0 in the BEAST?

When did Gary Waters take a team to the Elite 8?  Kind of defeats your point?

i think you guys are lost in the thread i was commenting to Sultan's original comment to another poster that said Buzz should get in the MU HOF .  Sultan said recruitng does not get you in a  HOF but that winning does.   I simply commented that 90% of winning is recruiting.   And if i jumped to conclusions by saying that sutan was insinuating Buzz could not coach than I apologize.  it is just beyond annoying that people continue to infer that becuase Buzz is a good recruiter he is a bad coach, or that becuase we are having a down year he is not a good coach.  Hence the question relating to last year.  or the question for the Crean lovers of in creans 6th year in the program when we were barely an NIT team did that make him a bad coach.  Bottom line you cant win without good talent.  And for the people that say Bo wins without talent i will counter that Wisco has the best talent they have ever had under Bo I also think he is a great coach but he accomplishes little without the NBA an other high level  players he has had.

the knocks on otule and mbao get really stupid too.  people reference Thabeet, and aron grey and others yet never look back at their freshman numbers they assume they had the same numbers as freshman as they put up during junior or senior season.  really really ignorant comments.  seems like since Crean never recruited bigs people have completely forgotten the progression.  older fans will remeber Jim Mcilvaine as a freshman...he was terrible...he admitted to seriously considering quititng...and many ignorant fans probably would have encouraged him too.  them booing him said the same.  by his junior and senior seasons he was an all conference player and led Mu to 2 NCAA and a conference title.

[Hards Alumni]

i think you guys are lost in the thread i was commenting to Sultan's original comment to another poster that said Buzz should get in the MU HOF .  Sultan said recruitng does not get you in a  HOF but that winning does.   I simply commented that 90% of winning is recruiting.   And if i jumped to conclusions by saying that sutan was insinuating Buzz could not coach than I apologize.  it is just beyond annoying that people continue to infer that becuase Buzz is a good recruiter he is a bad coach, or that becuase we are having a down year he is not a good coach.  Hence the question relating to last year.  or the question for the Crean lovers of in creans 6th year in the program when we were barely an NIT team did that make him a bad coach.  Bottom line you cant win without good talent.  And for the people that say Bo wins without talent i will counter that Wisco has the best talent they have ever had under Bo I also think he is a great coach but he accomplishes little without the NBA an other high level  players he has had.

The bottom line was that he wasn't implying that Buzz can't coach.

[MUEng92]

I have no reason to believe it was in jest.

I see some people had the nerve of turning this back into a serious basketball discussion.  I am not trying to hijack it back.  I just want to clarify my original post.  I am too lazy to use teal, perhaps I should more often.

I am on vacation so I have no interest in being 100% serious.  Plus, just yesterday, my daughter told me some of her friends don't get sarcasm.  That is one of our normal modes of conversation in my family.  I guess I have to remember not everyone knows my family.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Good lord...stop jumping to conclusions.  All I was responding to was the original poster's thought that by simply getting J.P. that Buzz makes the Hall of Fame.  I never said that Buzz couldn't coach.

Sultan i apologize i jumped to conclusions i just get sick of all the idiots that say BUZZ cant coach yet about a year ago were saying he is a genius.  Roy willimas or Bob knight would be hard pressed to do much more with our current group.  as a defensive coach i will be the first to say if you cannot stop dribble penetration nothing else really matters ...and Acker and Cubi flat out cannot stop it.

then the Buzz cannot recruit bigs adn now that he has signed some cannot develop them BS is just plain stupid. now this big kid scores 18 in a HS game and Buzz should have signed him over mbao?  i am sorry the stupidity just gets to me at times.

Again i aplogize for lumping you in with the morons.   I will say tho that if Buzz keeps signing kids like junior, Vander, Jamail, and a kid like JP it is 90% of what it takes to becomae a HOF coach

[NersEllenson]

Hayward seems to have quite the reputation on this board, but truth be told, I read his posts and tend to agree with 85-90% of this points.  Also seem he and Chicos have an ongoing battle, and I find Chico's posts valid too.  Anyway, keep it up Hayward/Chicos!!

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I AGREE... YOU GUYS MAKE THIS PLACE FUN TO VISIT. OPINIONS AND INSIGHTS ARE WHAT I LOOK FOR AND THE OCCASSIONAL TEAL

[VegasWarrior77]

I am too lazy to use teal, perhaps I should more often.

I know what you mean.  A few mouse clicks is a lot of work!

[willie warrior]

Sultan i apologize i jumped to conclusions i just get sick of all the idiots that say BUZZ cant coach yet about a year ago were saying he is a genius.  Roy willimas or Bob knight would be hard pressed to do much more with our current group.  as a defensive coach i will be the first to say if you cannot stop dribble penetration nothing else really matters ...and Acker and Cubi flat out cannot stop it.

then the Buzz cannot recruit bigs adn now that he has signed some cannot develop them BS is just plain stupid. now this big kid scores 18 in a HS game and Buzz should have signed him over mbao?  i am sorry the stupidity just gets to me at times.

Again i aplogize for lumping you in with the morons.   I will say tho that if Buzz keeps signing kids like junior, Vander, Jamail, and a kid like JP it is 90% of what it takes to becomae a HOF coach

Roy Williams and Bob Knight are no better than Buzz. Man, we are getting a bargain.

[wadesworld]

Hayward seems to have quite the reputation on this board, but truth be told, I read his posts and tend to agree with 85-90% of this points.  Also seem he and Chicos have an ongoing battle, and I find Chico's posts valid too.  Anyway, keep it up Hayward/Chicos!!

+1

[avid1010]

Sultan i apologize i jumped to conclusions i just get sick of all the idiots that say BUZZ cant coach yet about a year ago were saying he is a genius.  Roy willimas or Bob knight would be hard pressed to do much more with our current group.  as a defensive coach i will be the first to say if you cannot stop dribble penetration nothing else really matters ...and Acker and Cubi flat out cannot stop it.

then the Buzz cannot recruit bigs adn now that he has signed some cannot develop them BS is just plain stupid. now this big kid scores 18 in a HS game and Buzz should have signed him over mbao?  i am sorry the stupidity just gets to me at times.

Again i aplogize for lumping you in with the morons.   I will say tho that if Buzz keeps signing kids like junior, Vander, Jamail, and a kid like JP it is 90% of what it takes to becomae a HOF coach

Think NC fans feel it's 90% recruiting and 10% coaching after watching Matt Doherty show no progress with his recruits, and then watching Roy Williams coach them?

The comments on the kid from Hartland are stupid.  I've never seen him play, but when not one high major team offers the kid I pay no attention to those who criticize Buzz for not recruiting him.  If Bo was willing to let him walk, it's obvious. 

I'll also add that it's frustrating to watch teams, both mid and high major continuously develop big men with a great deal of skill.  I understand why it's difficult, but I don't think it's acceptable.  I have a feeling that if Liam and Otule weren't out, we'd be feeling much different about this subject.

I'm still interested to know if you think Buzz is a good coach?

[Ari Gold]

Going back to the original intent of the topic at hand. I think that Buzz or Bo have a strong chance of signing JP. (Bo recently had lunch at MFHS with Buzz because sophomores can't leave campus) I realize how strong the allure of Duke and NC are but knowing what I know about JP's parents, they may want him to say close to home. The kid doesn't have a cell phone, facebook or even a drivers license.  Buzz or Bo telling JP's parents that he's only 25/90 minutes from home and you can visit him any time they want may have enough pull.

But again... JP still has to maintain/improve his skill set.

[bma725]

Then maybe we need to do something about our offense.  If a 6-8 senior starter on a Big East team getting 20 minutes per game has the lowest scoring average of any regular starter in the country and can't even pull down 4 rebounds something isn't right.  There's a free pass for this year because of health problems/injuries/transfers, but it's going to be very frustrating if we have to play in the best conference with a lineup that is smaller than 330-some other teams any longer than this.  It's sad to see UWM and UWGB with players that have size and also don't need a special teaching session to guard an inbounds play and us trying to compete against the likes of Harangody, Onuaku, Monroe, and Samuels but still hoping that maybe some Juco project with the talent to play for Central Connecticut State might play for us instead.

You adjust the offense to what you have in order to maximize your talent on the roster and give yourself the best chance to win.  If the roster had big men worthy of being fed the ball, they would get it.  But it doesn't, so there's no point in throwing the ball in there and wasting the talent of the guys you've got.

Every coach in the country does it.  Do you see Jay Wright worrying about paint touches and post up play when his 4 best players are guards?  No, of course not.  He runs an offense designed to win the most games with the talent he's got and then adjusts the offense when the talent dictates that in the future.

[avid1010]

Do you see Jay Wright worrying about paint touches and post up play when his 4 best players are guards?  No, of course not.  He runs an offense designed to win the most games with the talent he's got and then adjusts the offense when the talent dictates that in the future.

Did Buzz make a big deal out of paint touches last year (and I missed it), or do we hear of it more this year because the focus is on getting Jimmy and Lazar the ball?  It's interesting because you mention Nova's four guard offense, and I would think MU would then be too small to focus on paint touches as well.  The mis-matches should come when guys like Butler and Hayward can draw bigger/slower BEAST defenders out on the perimeter, opening up the lane for penetration. 

[MR.HAYWARD]

Think NC fans feel it's 90% recruiting and 10% coaching after watching Matt Doherty show no progress with his recruits, and then watching Roy Williams coach them?

The comments on the kid from Hartland are stupid.  I've never seen him play, but when not one high major team offers the kid I pay no attention to those who criticize Buzz for not recruiting him.  If Bo was willing to let him walk, it's obvious. 

I'll also add that it's frustrating to watch teams, both mid and high major continuously develop big men with a great deal of skill.  I understand why it's difficult, but I don't think it's acceptable.  I have a feeling that if Liam and Otule weren't out, we'd be feeling much different about this subject.

I'm still interested to know if you think Buzz is a good coach?

to answer your question...yes I think Buzz is a good coach.  in fact i think most of the coaches out there are for the most part good coaches.  I think a good coach can get more out of the same hand than a decent coach but the difference is small.  I compare it to playing eucre or cards, skill is clearly involved but 90% of it is in the cards you are dealt...ie recruiting.  I used to joke that i could guess within 2-3 games of what my teams record would be every year after the first practice...that is with no idea of what our opponents would be like.  i could walk on the court ofr the first day of tryouts assess the talent and pretty much guess our record.  great players make great coaches.

additionally, i think most of what the difference between great coaches and good coaches is not technical it is mentall.  a great coach gets great buy in gets great effort every day in practice and allows that team to be tougher mentally than their oppoenent.  Basketball is a very simple game and most things a coaches sees from another team he has seen 1000 times before, swing, flex, 1-3-1, 1-2-2, princeton, you name it whether it be offense or defense.  Nothing is really new, the key is how committed and tough is your team and how talented is your team.  i always knew we were going to be the toughest hardest working team the only thing i did not know was the talent level.

so to answer your question...i have been very pleased with Buzz.  I screamed at my TV for 3 years for Crean to run a motion offense with the 3 amigos, and eveyone saw how they flourished under it last year.  i do not blame our defensive issues this year on Buzz you have to have a good defensive PG or everything else falls apart, we do not.  We could play zone but we have no experienced size.  those two issues are do to bad luck in injuries and Crean leaving the cupboard bare.  

lastly, i thought Crean was a decent coach...my coaching issues with him were he was to limited in what he was willing to do but i did not have abig problem with that as i said before it is a small part of wiining.  do something with great intensity, with great mental and physical toughness and have great talent and it does not necessarily matter what it is that you do.  Am i a proponent of the 2-3 defense ...no but Boeheim has won as mnay games and been as sucessful as anyone running it.  My issues with Crean was he was a poor recruiter and not good enough of a coach to compensate for it.  He signed way too many non high major recruits

[bma725]

Did Buzz make a big deal out of paint touches last year (and I missed it), or do we hear of it more this year because the focus is on getting Jimmy and Lazar the ball?  It's interesting because you mention Nova's four guard offense, and I would think MU would then be too small to focus on paint touches as well.  The mis-matches should come when guys like Butler and Hayward can draw bigger/slower BEAST defenders out on the perimeter, opening up the lane for penetration. 

He did, though maybe not as much.  But when he says paint touches, he doesn't mean it in the traditional sense of passing the ball in to a big man in the paint he means it in terms of the player with the ball getting into the paint.