No Shame

[warthog-driver]

what is about the Harbaugh's that makes you uncomfortable? Is it the unblushing jock family arrogance? The brazen sense of entitlement - especially from Jim? Or is it the audacious presumption of this clan where they take turns manufacturing bogus employment for the patriarch? The Old Man should be embarrassed but I don't believe that word is in the Harbaugh family dictionary.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls09/news/story?id=4731857

[damuts222]

Thats the way it works from NCAAF to the NFL, you look out for your guys. When a new coach gets hired, such as with Notre Dame he will hire people he is familiar with (friends/family) to help coach, or he will take numerous coaches from Cincy with him.

[warthog-driver]

I get that you build your team with guys you know and trust but hiring Jack Harbaugh at Stanford just reeks of nepotism. For instance, what did the old football coach do at Marquette? Pretty questionable from a shareholder stand point. Can you imagine someone at Microsoft creating a position of questionable business value and then plugging their father-in-law into the slot? I think Steve Ballmer would be all over that like a Hobo on a Hot Dog.

[77champs]

I worked with Jack while he was at MU and while everyone knew why he was there, he did a great job of liaison and representative of MU.   His was informed as to the direction of the athletic department and university.   He involved in B&G fund, all basketball events, liaison to former players and large donors etc.   He was good in that role and could talk Marquette, overall basketball, football and sports in general.   He was very responsive giving out his cell phone and came through to set up meetings as well as the all basketball athlete reunion.

I guess my point is that he did not phone it in and was not just a shill for his son in law.   He did his job better than any I have seen in the past.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I worked with Jack while he was at MU and while everyone knew why he was there, he did a great job of liaison and representative of MU.   His was informed as to the direction of the athletic department and university.   He involved in B&G fund, all basketball events, liaison to former players and large donors etc.   He was good in that role and could talk Marquette, overall basketball, football and sports in general.   He was very responsive giving out his cell phone and came through to set up meetings as well as the all basketball athlete reunion.

I guess my point is that he did not phone it in and was not just a shill for his son in law.   He did his job better than any I have seen in the past.

Exactly.

Besides, this is a temporary gig for Jack.  It's not like he doesn't have the expertise, he was  fine football coach.  It's easier to hire him to do this for one game then overload the staff with extra responsibilities for one game.  See no issue here.   We're talking about Stanford University, this isn't Memphis, or Kentucky or some university athletics department that has major issues.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I worked with Jack while he was at MU and while everyone knew why he was there, he did a great job of liaison and representative of MU.   His was informed as to the direction of the athletic department and university.   He involved in B&G fund, all basketball events, liaison to former players and large donors etc.   He was good in that role and could talk Marquette, overall basketball, football and sports in general.   He was very responsive giving out his cell phone and came through to set up meetings as well as the all basketball athlete reunion.

I guess my point is that he did not phone it in and was not just a shill for his son in law.   He did his job better than any I have seen in the past.

This is wrong.

We all know he was just hired because of Crean and Jack didn't do anything.

[warthog-driver]

Exactly.

Besides, this is a temporary gig for Jack.  It's not like he doesn't have the expertise, he was  fine football coach.  It's easier to hire him to do this for one game then overload the staff with extra responsibilities for one game.  See no issue here.   We're talking about Stanford University, this isn't Memphis, or Kentucky or some university athletics department that has major issues.

The question is not did he do a good job or what was asked of him. The question is did the position exist prior to him showing up, was it fairly bid, was there a real business requirement, and did the shareholders get a return on investment? It just seems it was a make work project for the Old Boy, at the expense of Marquette's shareholders. Families pay a lot of money to MU. I hate to think some of it went to subsidize an out of work relative of an employee.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The question is not did he do a good job or what was asked of him. The question is did the position exist prior to him showing up, - I Don't know was it fairly bid - I Don't know, but realistically a lot of positions at a lot of companies aren't "Fairly bid", was there a real business requirement - Hard to quantify. I don't know the interworkings of an athletic department. I also don't know if MU really NEEDS a director of Baskeball Opps., but they have one every year. , and did the shareholders get a return on investment? - It sounds like he did a good job, so yes. It just seems it was a make work project for the Old Boy, at the expense of Marquette's shareholders. Families pay a lot of money to MU. I hate to think some of it went to subsidize an out of work relative of an employee.

[warthog-driver]

We all know it was a jobs creation program. People who were there said he did a fine job so it is really a matter for MU to manage. It was pretty transparent what went down and if Bill Cords thought it was ok then that's all that matters.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The question is not did he do a good job or what was asked of him. The question is did the position exist prior to him showing up, was it fairly bid, was there a real business requirement, and did the shareholders get a return on investment? It just seems it was a make work project for the Old Boy, at the expense of Marquette's shareholders. Families pay a lot of money to MU. I hate to think some of it went to subsidize an out of work relative of an employee.

Yes, the Running Backs coach at Stanford was hired as the head coach, ironically, at Western Kentucky University (where Jack won a national championship as head coach earlier this decade).  His name is Willie Taggert.

Because Tagger left, Stanford was in need of a stop gap measure before going out and hiring a full time running backs coach.  Jack is still very much in the game and consults regularly with John Harbaugh (head coach of the Baltimore Ravens) and Jim Harbaugh (Stanford head coach).  He was asked to work this one game.

I get a lot more upset when friends \ family are hired into positions where they aren't qualified, don't have the experience, etc, etc, especially for long term jobs.  This is a short term situation and he's eminently qualified.  No issue in my opinion.

One could ask these same questions of our current basketball coaching staff, the last coaching staff, the one before that.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Give me a break. Stanford could get by without a freaking running backs coach for one game. This is a payoff, nothing less. Same as when he was "working" for Marquette. I don't care how good he did a serving as a "liasion" for former players...he should have been embarrassed to cash checks from Marquette University.

[warthog-driver]

I'm with the Nightmare. The old guy should hang it up. He had no business taking money from MU. He may be a nice guy but have some pride, for the love of God.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Give it a rest guys.

The Harbaughs aren't the first people to hire close friends and family and they aren't the last. I worked for my brother for a couple of summers. GASP! It was terrible that he didn't post the job on Monster.com for 3 months and wait for 50 applicants.

You guys feign "outrage" at everything involving TC, including his in-laws.

1 person even worked with Jack Harbaugh and said he did a good job, and you guys still hate him.

Seriously, you need to get over TC (bad tan and bad ties included).

[warthog-driver]

Give it a rest guys.

The Harbaughs aren't the first people to hire close friends and family and they aren't the last. I worked for my brother for a couple of summers. GASP! It was terrible that he didn't post the job on Monster.com for 3 months and wait for 50 applicants.

You guys feign "outrage" at everything involving TC, including his in-laws.

1 person even worked with Jack Harbaugh and said he did a good job, and you guys still hate him.

Seriously, you need to get over TC (bad tan and bad ties included).

Alum,

It's not a summer job we're talking about here. The issue is the old man needs to have some pride and stop looking for the next generation to create "jobs" for him. The role Crean made up for him at MU was summer intern responsibility with executive pay.  If someone at Microsoft abrogated fiduciary responsibility by adding headcount of minimal to no shareholder value then plugged in a family member, without posting or bidding the job properly, Steve Ballmer would be so far up that guys nether region so quickly he wouldn't know how or why he was unemployed. At the end of the day, though, Jack Harbaugh needs to man up with dignity and say, "no, thank you."

BTW,

Did Tom Crean have a bad tan and bad necktie? I never noticed.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Alum,

It's not a summer job we're talking about here. The issue is the old man needs to have some pride and stop looking for the next generation to create "jobs" for him. The role Crean made up for him at MU was summer intern responsibility with executive pay.  If someone at Microsoft abrogated fiduciary responsibility by adding headcount of minimal to no shareholder value then plugged in a family member, without posting or bidding the job properly, Steve Ballmer would be so far up that guys nether region so quickly he wouldn't know how or why he was unemployed. At the end of the day, though, Jack Harbaugh needs to man up with dignity and say, "no, thank you."

BTW,

Did Tom Crean have a bad tan and bad necktie? I never noticed.

The runningbacks coaching job is a lot like a summer job, which is the job that you seem pissed that Jack is taking.

As far as the Mircrosoft comparison, are you honestly telling me that nobody at that company has ever received a promotion/job because of their connections and/or office politics?

This sh*t happens ALL OF THE TIME AT COMPANIES ALL OVER THE WORLD.

You focus in on TC and blame him and his "character" for everything. I've got news for you, you should open your eyes and look around because these same practices are happening all of the time.

I'm not saying it's right, but the outrage you display is disproportionate to how big of a deal this actually is.

Also, MU is a private school/company, so they are free to hire anybody they like. If I don't like it, I'm welcome to cancel my season tickets.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

It happens elsewhere, thus, it must be perfectly fine if we do it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't see where this has anything to do with pride, etc.  He was hired to do a job, he did the job.  He wasn't sitting there collecting a paycheck and doing nothing.  From almost every account I've heard internally about the guy, he worked hard, was a solid asset to Marquettem good person, etc, etc. 

Whether or not Stanford could do a game without a running backs coach I think is not the question.  As with most organizations, they don't want to give up positions.  You start saying you could do it for a bowl game and then some administrator says, why can't you do it the whole year.  Coaches don't want to do that as they have enough on their plates.

They have a vacancy, it's a temporary vacancy, they hired a national championship football coach who has coaching experience at the Big Ten, Pac Ten, Big East level and they probably got him awfully cheap to fill one game.  Plus it makes for a nice father - son story which Stanford will eat up in terms of the positive PR.

[warthog-driver]

The runningbacks coaching job is a lot like a summer job, which is why you were initially pissed off.

As far as the mircrosoft comparison, are you honestly telling me that nobody at that company has ever received a promotion/job because of their connections and/or office politics?

This sh*t happens ALL OF THE TIME AT COMPANIES ALL OVER THE WORLD.

You focus in on TC and blame him and his "character" for everything. I've got news for you, you should open your eyes and look around because these same practices are happening all of the time.

I'm not saying it's right, but the outrage you display is disproportionate to how big of a deal this actually is.

Also, MU is a private school/company, so they are free to hire anybody they like. If I don't like it, I'm welcome to cancel my season tickets.

Actually, there are strict rules governing hiring and staffing practices, especially for any entity receiving Federal contracts, grants, or awards. Mrs Warthog (actually, she does NOT go by that in any way) worked Strategic Planning, Corporate Development for Microsoft for many years and is now doing the same thing for the Gates Foundation (Jeff Raikes took her with him when he left MS to run the Foundation.) In this capacity she has done a lot of Organizational Development work. An organization like MS would not create a position that did not meet strict shareholder value/IRR targets. The only exceptions would have to go to Ballmer - I'm not kidding but that is how serious they are about their obligations to shareholders - and he would really need to be convinced. In any event, MS is extremely sensitive to any potential liability as they are the most sued corporation in the world. Several employees sued recently when MS was cutting costs and eliminated the clean towels benefit. This as been around since Day One - they supply employees clean towels in the locker rooms scattered around campus (if you go to the redmond campus there are playing fields throughout ands you will see employees playing frisbee golf, soccer, etc...also, a lot of people here in Seattle bike to work.) MS justified this since they also give EVERYONE a company paid membership at the Pro Club Fitness Center in Redmond (this place is really nice - I am used to military gyms so I use my wife's membership to work out on weekends.) Anyhow, you get the point, MS gets sued a lot for stupid things.

In the case of MU, they are subject to the same federal rules governing employment rights and responsibilities. I am certain MU receives federal money so they must be subject to these regs. In the Jack Harbaugh matter MU could have found itself in trouble IF someone had stepped up and cried foul. I guess nobody did so MU dodged a bullet.

All of this is really not the point. I am not concerned about the Stanford gig so much, either. It is just the principal of creating jobs for the Old Boy for the sake of getting him a paycheck. His work at MU seems to have been Summer Intern caliber with significantly higher pay. I feel he should be ashamed to collect pay for these manufactured jobs. I know that when I'm at the end of the trail I will maintain my dignity. Like 77 said - everybody knew why Jack was there. personally, I couldn't live beyond shame in that way, sorry.  

[warthog-driver]

I don't see where this has anything to do with pride, etc.  He was hired to do a job, he did the job.  He wasn't sitting there collecting a paycheck and doing nothing.  From almost every account I've heard internally about the guy, he worked hard, was a solid asset to Marquettem good person, etc, etc. 

Whether or not Stanford could do a game without a running backs coach I think is not the question.  As with most organizations, they don't want to give up positions.  You start saying you could do it for a bowl game and then some administrator says, why can't you do it the whole year.  Coaches don't want to do that as they have enough on their plates.

They have a vacancy, it's a temporary vacancy, they hired a national championship football coach who has coaching experience at the Big Ten, Pac Ten, Big East level and they probably got him awfully cheap to fill one game.  Plus it makes for a nice father - son story which Stanford will eat up in terms of the positive PR.

Chico, C'mon brother. I have read your political views on these boards for years. You can probably figure out where I stand on the spectrum when you weigh in my military career. Of all people, you should be disgusted when the tenets of the free market are broken, as happened with the role created for Jack at MU. Perhaps you are now ok with the current regime printing money like Parker Brothers? This is not about a one game fill-in at Stanford. This is everything about a socialist job creation entitlement program!   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It happens elsewhere, thus, it must be perfectly fine if we do it.

No, doesn't make it fine.

But, the outrage shown here is disproportionate just because his last name is "harbaugh" or "crean".

I know a guy who got into MU because his dad worked there. He was a TERRIBLE student, but his dad held a medium power position, so he got in.

That was a waste of 30K per year, and I bet there are more kids like that too. I bet that happens all over the country at every school.

It happens all of the time, so let's not throw rocks at Jack Harbaugh for taking a part time gig as the running backs coach. Sheesh.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

If this little thing upsets you then you must have gone ballistic when someone left her $350k/yr. hospital job and it was eliminated afterward

[LA]

I just read this thread twice and I'm still pretty confused by the outrage. Chicos and alumn are right on point.

Did the position already exist? Check

Is the person qualified? Check

Does Warthog have some odd vendetta against TC like he stole his girl? Check

[Marquette84]

Of all people, you should be disgusted when the tenets of the free market are broken, as happened with the role created for Jack at MU.

How exactly were the tenets of the free market broken?

MU as a private entity hired a guy they wanted to hire, paid him exactly what they wanted to pay him, and did so completely free of any government intervention whatsoever.

A violation of the free market would be if the government said MU cannot hire Jack Harbaugh.  Or put restrictions on what they could pay him.  Or dictated that they must hire someone else that fits some racial/economic/gender profile.

Frankly hiring Jack Harbaugh is as close to the free enterprise system as you can get.  MU had the money, and the spent it how THEY wanted--not how you or the government would do so.

[warthog-driver]

No, doesn't make it fine.

But, the outrage shown here is disproportionate just because his last name is "harbaugh" or "crean".

I know a guy who got into MU because his dad worked there. He was a TERRIBLE student, but his dad held a medium power position, so he got in.

That was a waste of 30K per year, and I bet there are more kids like that too. I bet that happens all over the country at every school.

It happens all of the time, so let's not throw rocks at Jack Harbaugh for taking a part time gig as the running backs coach. Sheesh.

Admissions to a private university are different than federally governed hiring and staffing rules. By the way, my first roommate at MU had a father who was a Dean of one of the schools. Great guy but he never went to class. In fact, it turns out he was selling drugs from our room in McCormick. He ended up getting busted along with his partner who was a DJ at one of the local rock stations. Every time they've done my security background investigation I have always disclosed that little vignette.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Actually, there are strict rules governing hiring and staffing practices, especially for any entity receiving Federal contracts, grants, or awards. Mrs Warthog (actually, she does NOT go by that in any way) worked Strategic Planning, Corporate Development for Microsoft for many years and is now doing the same thing for the Gates Foundation (Jeff Raikes took her with him when he left MS to run the Foundation.) In this capacity she has done a lot of Organizational Development work. An organization like MS would not create a position that did not meet strict shareholder value/IRR targets. The only exceptions would have to go to Ballmer - I'm not kidding but that is how serious they are about their obligations to shareholders - and he would really need to be convinced. In any event, MS is extremely sensitive to any potential liability as they are the most sued corporation in the world. Several employees sued recently when MS was cutting costs and eliminated the clean towels benefit. This as been around since Day One - they supply employees clean towels in the locker rooms scattered around campus (if you go to the redmond campus there are playing fields throughout ands you will see employees playing frisbee golf, soccer, etc...also, a lot of people here in Seattle bike to work.) MS justified this since they also give EVERYONE a company paid membership at the Pro Club Fitness Center in Redmond (this place is really nice - I am used to military gyms so I use my wife's membership to work out on weekends.) Anyhow, you get the point, MS gets sued a lot for stupid things.

In the case of MU, they are subject to the same federal rules governing employment rights and responsibilities. I am certain MU receives federal money so they must be subject to these regs. In the Jack Harbaugh matter MU could have found itself in trouble IF someone had stepped up and cried foul. I guess nobody did so MU dodged a bullet.

All of this is really not the point. I am not concerned about the Stanford gig so much, either. It is just the principal of creating jobs for the Old Boy for the sake of getting him a paycheck. His work at MU seems to have been Summer Intern caliber with significantly higher pay. I feel he should be ashamed to collect pay for these manufactured jobs. I know that when I'm at the end of the trail I will maintain my dignity. Like 77 said - everybody knew why Jack was there. personally, I couldn't live beyond shame in that way, sorry.  

I appreciate the well thought out response, I didn't know all of that about Microsoft. Sounds like a great place.

However, with all due respect, you're all over the map on this topic.

The first post in this thread is you ripping the Harbaughs (specifically Jack) for taking the running backs job.

Then, in subsequent responses, you say that it's not about the running backs job, it's about his job at MU.

Now, you respond to Chico's and go on a mildly politically rant about "printing money" and "everything about a socialist job creation entitlement program"

I think you are carrying this out a little far.

Listen, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you should blindly follow whatever decisions are made by people at MU, but you are basically accusing them of a federal offense (fraud?) and have zero proof other than the fact that you think Tom Crean is a d*ck.


"In the case of MU, they are subject to the same federal rules governing employment rights and responsibilities. I am certain MU receives federal money so they must be subject to these regs. In the Jack Harbaugh matter MU could have found itself in trouble IF someone had stepped up and cried foul. I guess nobody did so MU dodged a bullet."