Badgers exhausted Saturday?

[Lennys Tap]

Last night in an overtime game Bo used a seven man rotation (8th man Wilson played 1 minute) and 5 of his guys played 35+ minutes. His team will be toast Saturday and be on life support by February. How could a hall of fame coach be so shortsighted? Is winning really that important? (sorry, I couldn't get my computer to change this message to teal)

[ChicosBailBonds]

Last night in an overtime game Bo used a seven man rotation (8th man Wilson played 1 minute) and 5 of his guys played 35+ minutes. His team will be toast Saturday and be on life support by February. How could a hall of fame coach be so shortsighted? Is winning really that important? (sorry, I couldn't get my computer to change this message to teal)

Yes, because Bo Ryan's clubs like to pressure defend and get out and run.....it's what they're known for.

[Big Papi]

Yes, because Bo Ryan's clubs like to pressure defend and get out and run.....it's what they're known for.

Cool.  I'll play this game.

Yes, because we all know all of our players are old, not in their prime condition, are out of shape and get extremely tired the moment they run up and down the court a few more times than most everyone else.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cool.  I'll play this game.

Yes, because we all know all of our players are old, not in their prime condition, are out of shape and get extremely tired the moment they run up and down the court a few more times than most everyone else.

And because they're in the prime condition of their life, then, if they're able to defend bigger, stronger, faster guys in the first half they should in the second...since fatigue doesn't happen.

I do like this game.   

[Big Papi]

And because they're in the prime condition of their life, then, if they're able to defend bigger, stronger, faster guys in the first half they should in the second...since fatigue doesn't happen.

I do like this game.   

And because there are tv timeouts every 4 minutes for commercials, plus regular timeouts, the difference between playing 32 minutes compared to 37 minutes of playing time over 2 hours is nothing.

Yes I do really like this game.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

And because there are tv timeouts every 4 minutes for commercials, plus regular timeouts, the difference between playing 32 minutes compared to 37 minutes of playing time over 2 hours is nothing.

Yes I do really like this game.   

Wait, this can't be....why have a 10 man rotation then.      We're obviously over recruiting since we don't need all these guys, since fatigue isn't an issue...an extra 5 minutes is nothing per game. 

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, because Bo Ryan's clubs like to pressure defend and get out and run.....it's what they're known for.

Bo had 5 guys play 35+ mintes last night in an uptempo 88-84 game. You're only 2 possible choices are a) Bo doesn't know what he's doing or b) I (chicos et al) am a hypocrite. You appear to have chosen b).

[Dr. Blackheart]

Exhausted.  They scored two games' worth of points on offense.

[MUSF]

Bo had 5 guys play 35+ mintes last night in an uptempo 88-84 game. You're only 2 possible choices are a) Bo doesn't know what he's doing or b) I (chicos et al) am a hypocrite. You appear to have chosen b).

Let's say Lenny is correct here and fatigue shouldn't be an issue with a shorter rotation.

What is your explanation then for our 2nd half breakdowns?  If it isn't fatigue, then what is it?  A lack of ability to counter other coaches adjustments?  Lack of experience?  At least fatigue could be used as a legitimate excuse, especially when you factor in injuries and a number of rookies.  If you are trying to defend Buzz, I would think you would play up the fatigue issue.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let's say Lenny is correct here and fatigue shouldn't be an issue with a shorter rotation.

What is your explanation then for our 2nd half breakdowns?  If it isn't fatigue, then what is it?  A lack of ability to counter other coaches adjustments?  Lack of experience?  At least fatigue could be used as a legitimate excuse, especially when you factor in injuries and a number of rookies.  If you are trying to defend Buzz, I would think you would play up the fatigue issue.

Don't you know, they were just bigger and stronger and wore us down (I call that fatigue, Lenny calls that wearing someone down).  It's the same thing, but those damn semantics.

Of course, the team that played the 9 man rotation last night won...hmmm.

[MarquetteDano]

How many games did the Badgers play before and after this game?  Certainly not 4 games in 6 days.

I really don't know why people refuse to believe that an athlete can get tired playing 30+ minutes in four games over 6 days.  Even Buzz mentioned after the UWM game that we really need Erik Williams to give us some minutes to REST some of the other players.

Buzz must be an idiot... why would you need to rest players?

[VegasWarrior77]

Some wisky fans were commenting about the lack of guards on their team and they wished they had either one of the UWGB guards on their team.  It's funny how a loss brings out some unique comments.

[avid1010]

Of course, the team that played the 9 man rotation last night won...hmmm.

And we would have lost if we would have played a seven man rotation

I'd tend to go with the thought that we have a very young team that hasn't figured out how to put two good halves of basketball together.  Why can they play so strong going into halftime and yet fall flat on their faces immediately after half time.  Buzz must have them working out in the locker room during halftime because you'd have to think the break would actually help them regain their legs. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

And we would have lost if we would have played a seven man rotation

I'd tend to go with the thought that we have a very young team that hasn't figured out how to put two good halves of basketball together.  Why can they play so strong going into halftime and yet fall flat on their faces immediately after half time.  Buzz must have them working out in the locker room during halftime because you'd have to think the break would actually help them regain their legs. 

I'm advocating they play more guys, not less.  I believe part of the reason they lost is due to fatigue, playing guys too many minutes, not enough of a rotation.

[Lennys Tap]

Let's say Lenny is correct here and fatigue shouldn't be an issue with a shorter rotation.

What is your explanation then for our 2nd half breakdowns?  If it isn't fatigue, then what is it?  A lack of ability to counter other coaches adjustments?  Lack of experience?  At least fatigue could be used as a legitimate excuse, especially when you factor in injuries and a number of rookies.  If you are trying to defend Buzz, I would think you would play up the fatigue issue.

I actually was in agreement with those who said fatigue was a factor in the second half of the FSU game. We were playing our fourth game in six days, something that can only happen due to an early season tournament or a run to the Big East tourney final. FSU looked gassed too but had a little more left in the tank. I attribute that to their size and strength advantage. Chicos thinks this is unreasonable.

My main point in the post is that while many on this board think that unless we expand our 8 man rotation we'll fall apart as the season progresses, coaches such as Bo Ryan evidently disagree. Don't get me wrong - I hope E Williams becomes a vital part of a 9 man rotation. But only if he deserves it.

[MUSF]

How many games did the Badgers play before and after this game?  Certainly not 4 games in 6 days.

I really don't know why people refuse to believe that an athlete can get tired playing 30+ minutes in four games over 6 days.  Even Buzz mentioned after the UWM game that we really need Erik Williams to give us some minutes to REST some of the other players.

Buzz must be an idiot... why would you need to rest players?

+1

Athletes fatigue too.  Especially kids coming from HS and JUCO that have never experienced the demands of elite DI bball.

If we're going to press and run, we need to get a deeper bench.  Otherwise, we need to slow it down some and pick our spots with the press and fastbreak.  That's my opinion thus far.  I definitely don't know the team like Buzz does and I may be way off base, but this is what I'm seeing from my couch.

[MUSF]

I actually was in agreement with those who said fatigue was a factor in the second half of the FSU game. We were playing our fourth game in six days, something that can only happen due to an early season tournament or a run to the Big East tourney final. FSU looked gassed too but had a little more left in the tank. I attribute that to their size and strength advantage. Chicos thinks this is unreasonable.

My main point in the post is that while many on this board think that unless we expand our 8 man rotation we'll fall apart as the season progresses, coaches such as Bo Ryan evidently disagree. Don't get me wrong - I hope E Williams becomes a vital part of a 9 man rotation. But only if he deserves it.

I agree, no one should play that hasn't earned it.  That said, if you are going to play 7 or 8 guys, you may need to adjust your style of play.  You can't just act like fatigue is a non factor.  Like I said, maybe fatigue hasn't been the issue, but it sure as hell looks like it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I actually was in agreement with those who said fatigue was a factor in the second half of the FSU game. We were playing our fourth game in six days, something that can only happen due to an early season tournament or a run to the Big East tourney final. FSU looked gassed too but had a little more left in the tank. I attribute that to their size and strength advantage. Chicos thinks this is unreasonable.

What doesn't make sense is that last night, Bo went with a 7 man rotation and LOST. 

And no, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume FSU had more in the tank, but I don't attribute it all to their size and strength (smaller guys can run bigger guys into the ground)....they played MORE PEOPLE, of course they had more in the tank.  They played 9 guys 10 minutes or more, we played 7 at that clip.  I fully expect they would have more in the tank, that's why so many of us are saying to PLAY MORE GUYS!

Normally I would agree with you that it should be based on deserving to play, but with the injuries this team has, some folks have to be thrown into the fire more quickly.

[4everwarriors]

If Tiger can conquer all those women, then, college athletes can play 40 minutes of basketball a few days apart.

[sgurgs]

in all the talk about fatigue the past few weeks, few people have bothered to distinguish between anaerobic and aerobic fatigue, two very different things.

the body's ability to go hard, surging and pressing for short bursts for two to three minutes at a time and recovering fast enough to play a combined 30-35 minutes of that tempo is one thing. this will have a larger affect on how many players you play per game.

the ability to be able to put together that type of effort 4 times in 6 days is another, and requires a totally different type of endurance. 

both of these capacities can be strengthened. it's not as much a matter of how young or athletic a person is as how well he's developed both capacities. 

i have a hard time believing that extra minutes played in a game four days earlier are really going to affect UW's players -- those extra minutes would have a far more direct impact on their performance that night, but there body has plenty of time to recover before our game.  in fact, they're going to be more focused, because they've just had their pride wounded.  this game got immeasurably harder because UW-GB did what we wanted to do...play the underdog.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If Tiger can conquer all those women, then, college athletes can play 40 minutes of basketball a few days apart.

With all the ambien he was taking, it allowed him to sleep like a baby afterward and get refreshed for another drive to the hole.

[VegasWarrior77]

If Tiger can conquer all those women, then, college athletes can play 40 minutes of basketball a few days apart.

But he's got his own sports energy drink!

[warthog-driver]

Lenny

OK, for a more important question - is Lenny's Tap still around? Now, that was a bar! It was a place where heartache wasn't a stranger and the sting of cheap booze somehow only eased but never cured life's agony. A heady mixture of sweat, cigarette smoke, body odor, and the stale perfume of the tart in leopard skin spandex whose ass was wrapped around her bar stool and her cherry red lips around the head of a PBR bottle. It was a place Al would have been proud to drink at and probably did. Where dreams died and agony thrived through the gauzy fog of one last unfiltered Camel. For a few dollars a man could find sanctuary in a guileless world of doom and despair framed in flashing neon. Of all the gin joints in Milwaukee this was the oasis, the shimmering chimera of shame in a seedy city that gives no quarter...

[Daniel]

OK, for a more important question - is Lenny's Tap still around? Now, that was a bar! It was a place where heartache wasn't a stranger and the sting of cheap booze somehow only eased but never cured life's agony. A heady mixture of sweat, cigarette smoke, body odor, and the stale perfume of the tart whose ass was wrapped around her bar stool and her cherry red lips around the head of a PBR bottle. It was a place Al would have been proud to drink at and probably did. Where dreams died and agony thrived through the gauzy fog of one last unfiltered Camel. Of all the gin joints in Milwaukee...

Werll written Warthog!  Sounds like a radio detective story on the radio from the 40s.  Well done!

[MUSF]

in all the talk about fatigue the past few weeks, few people have bothered to distinguish between anaerobic and aerobic fatigue, two very different things.

the body's ability to go hard, surging and pressing for short bursts for two to three minutes at a time and recovering fast enough to play a combined 30-35 minutes of that tempo is one thing. this will have a larger affect on how many players you play per game.

the ability to be able to put together that type of effort 4 times in 6 days is another, and requires a totally different type of endurance. 

both of these capacities can be strengthened. it's not as much a matter of how young or athletic a person is as how well he's developed both capacities. 

i have a hard time believing that extra minutes played in a game four days earlier are really going to affect UW's players -- those extra minutes would have a far more direct impact on their performance that night, but there body has plenty of time to recover before our game.  in fact, they're going to be more focused, because they've just had their pride wounded.  this game got immeasurably harder because UW-GB did what we wanted to do...play the underdog.

Ok, but we are talking about a couple different things here.  Playing 7 guys definitely has an impact in that game.  Those 7 guys are going to experience more fatigue than 10.

Also, what about impact on joints the constant cutting, jumping, landing, and twisting.  I do think those things carry over.  Why do rookies struggle with an 82 game season?  Aren't they young guys in phenomenal shape?