Poll: Who Leaves First?

[bma725]

LOL yourself. Crean left a "great situation" to take over a "nuclear disaster"? Since when is a top 6 national program with TONS of playing time to offer a "nuclear disaster"? Guess rookie coach Josh Pastner didn't get the memo about the "disaster" he inherited at a program with a fraction of Indiana's tradition. All he did was sign the #1 class in the country while TC (in year2/3)inked guys rated around 150 and 250 respectively.

Pastner had infinitely more talent remaining on his Memphis team that Crean did at Indiana.  It's not even debatable.

[Lennys Tap]

Pastner had infinitely more talent remaining on his Memphis team that Crean did at Indiana.  It's not even debatable.

So he had less playing time to sell at a school so disgraced that they just had to forfeit an entire season and he recruited the #1 class in the country. I never said Crean should have won last year. I suggested that IU should be further along by now - the 2010 class is shaping up to be a weak one for TC in spite of the fact that he STILL has pt to sell at a marquee program. The natives are getting justifyibly restless.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So he had less playing time to sell at a school so disgraced that they just had to forfeit an entire season and he recruited the #1 class in the country. I never said Crean should have won last year. I suggested that IU should be further along by now - the 2010 class is shaping up to be a weak one for TC in spite of the fact that he STILL has pt to sell at a marquee program. The natives are getting justifyibly restless.

You're right Pastner is a better recruiter, and so is Calipari.

I'm not sure what that has to do with douche bag TC.

TC is a douche, but he's going to get AT LEAST 4 years to rebuild IU... regardless of Saint Pastner's recruiting.

Now, is 2013, DBTC's seat could be getting hot if he's not bringing in top in-state talent and making tournament runs.

TC. Douche.

[PJDunn]

TC will run a clean ship, but I doubt it will every match the utterly unreasonable standards that the hillbilly IU alum have for their program.  My guess is that he makes a 5+ year run there, but will not find a terribly pleasant experience unless he gets at least one final 4 tourney run.

I love Buzz so far but can't imagine him not at a B12 or SEC campus within the next 5 years if we attain any reasonable level of success.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LOL yourself. Crean left a "great situation" to take over a "nuclear disaster"? Since when is a top 6 national program with TONS of playing time to offer a "nuclear disaster"? Guess rookie coach Josh Pastner didn't get the memo about the "disaster" he inherited at a program with a fraction of Indiana's tradition. All he did was sign the #1 class in the country while TC (in year2/3)inked guys rated around 150 and 250 respectively.

I don't know if I should take you seriously on this, but I'll attempt to.

First, is Memphis and IU the same in terms of who you can recruit to go there?

Second, does Memphis have some major shenanigans going on that helps "encourage" recruits to attend Memphis?

Third, when you're recruiting at Memphis and telling a kid he can come in and play with 4 McDonald's All-Americans, is that an advantage over recruiting a kid to come to IU that had to start from scratch with any warm bodies just to field a team?

Fourth, was IU on probation, thus limiting their recruiting potential?

Fifth, do you think it would be easier to the get to the NCAAs at Memphis in CUSA or at IU in the Big Ten?  Thus, what recruiting pitch do you give a kid at IU?  Basically, come here...help us turn it around but you won't be going to the NCAAs for a few years vs come to Memphis where we get an automatic bid because our conference is so horrible.

I can go on, but Memphis has a ton more CURRENT built in advantages than IU does because of what IU was left with.  That will change over time in some of these areas, but currently Pastner has a much easier job than Crean does because of what he was left with, who he can get into school, how they get players into school, the conference they play in, etc.

When your team is on probation, loses every single player but one, and that player scored a total of 30 points the entire season.....well you're in deep crap.  That will take time to climb out.  They have some talent, but it's young.  Next year they will make the NIT and probably the year after the NCAA, but this year will continue to be struggles.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't know if I should take you seriously on this, but I'll attempt to.

First, is Memphis and IU the same in terms of who you can recruit to go there?

Second, does Memphis have some major shenanigans going on that helps "encourage" recruits to attend Memphis?

Third, when you're recruiting at Memphis and telling a kid he can come in and play with 4 McDonald's All-Americans, is that an advantage over recruiting a kid to come to IU that had to start from scratch with any warm bodies just to field a team?

Fourth, was IU on probation, thus limiting their recruiting potential?

Fifth, do you think it would be easier to the get to the NCAAs at Memphis in CUSA or at IU in the Big Ten?  Thus, what recruiting pitch do you give a kid at IU?  Basically, come here...help us turn it around but you won't be going to the NCAAs for a few years vs come to Memphis where we get an automatic bid because our conference is so horrible.

I can go on, but Memphis has a ton more CURRENT built in advantages than IU does because of what IU was left with.  That will change over time in some of these areas, but currently Pastner has a much easier job than Crean does because of what he was left with, who he can get into school, how they get players into school, the conference they play in, etc.

When your team is on probation, loses every single player but one, and that player scored a total of 30 points the entire season.....well you're in deep crap.  That will take time to climb out.  They have some talent, but it's young.  Next year they will make the NIT and probably the year after the NCAA, but this year will continue to be struggles.

I won't insult you by saying I don't know whether I should take you seriously, but I will reply nontheless.
1. I don't know about all of the Memphis recruits, but Crean was hot on the trail of Kirkland and MU was after Black. If their other guys qualify it means they're academically superior to the guy who's most responsible for TC's career. Do you really think IU won't admit top 20 kids who are NCAA academically qualified? Please.
2. Maybe Memphis is  buying players (as you suggest) and maybe they're not. If you have the knowledge of this I suggest perhaps you should share it with the powers that be.
3.When TC was at MU I was constantly reminded that a coach at a school named anything but Carolina needed playing time to entice top recruits. This explained why 2/3 of TC's classes were so weak. Guess it was Carolina OR Memphis.
4.The probation was little more than a tap on the wrist. Do you think Memphis' standing was undiminished when they forfeited an entire season?
5.So now being in Conference USA is a recruiting advantage? I remember way back when it was a millstone around our neck. I guess it's whatever puts TC in the most favorable light.

I could go on. But I'll finish with a question. Why was TC again unable to put back-to-back recruiting classes together. No pt to sell? No. Regional, small Catholic school? No. TC is in the big leagues now, no longer shackled with the problem inherent with coaching at MU. Yet he whiffs in year 2 while Buzz hits a home run. How is that possible?

[MU B2002]

Second, does Memphis have some major shenanigans going on that helps "encourage" recruits to attend Memphis?

I would like to give Pastner the benefit of the doubt, and say no.  I have never heard any of these types of whispers associated with him.  

[muwarrior69]

I just hope Buzz realizes that his job at MU is not a stepping stone to "greener pastures". He already has a great gig and despite all the naysayers who thought we could have done better in hiring a new coach he decides to stay and say this is where I belong. Even Al, a New Yorker, through and through, decided to spend the rest of his life in the Milwaukee area after he retired. And for the record I live in New Jersey in the Princeton area, but living in Wisconsin in the Milwaukee area would be great place to raise a family.

[StillAWarrior]

I just hope Buzz realizes that his job at MU is not a stepping stone to "greener pastures".

And I hope that Buzz doesn't realize that his job at MU is a stepping stone to greener pastures.

In short, we're hoping the same thing -- that Buzz succeeds and stays put.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I would like to give Pastner the benefit of the doubt, and say no.  I have never heard any of these types of whispers associated with him.  

It's part of the Memphis culture.  John Wooden wasn't cheating either, but Sam Gilbert, influential alum, was doing so behind Wooden's back.  The coach doesn't have to know what's going on.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is Memphis banned from post season play?  No.  Thus, it's a slap on the wrist.  Current players won't give a damn if they can still participate in the tournament.  Sure alums don't like it, but having a season wiped out in the past isn't going to hurt their recruiting.

I didn't say CUSA is a recruiting advantage....having a virtual lock to the NCAA tournament, is.  Gonzaga, Memphis, they have a lock to the NCAA tournament each year because of the conferences they play in.  That helps them in recruiting.  Why do you think Boise State can recruit like they do for football...because they have a lock to a bowl game.

I didn't say Memphis was paying players.  I said their are shenanigans going on and they have been for more than 3 decades at Memphis.  Larry, Dana, John, etc....it's been going on forever.  Nothing I've said is out of the blue, it's based on what they have done for years.  Hell, Kirk ended up in prison for Christ sake.

Kirkland and Black would have been admitted to MU or IU.  Would Derrick Rose?    And no, IU doesn't just admit anyone.  That has been one of their problems the last two decades, they haven't been willing to take some of the shortcuts others have.  That's probably going to change, but they aren't going to let in some kids that go to Memphis.

Playing time is always a key to selling a recruit, to deny that is crazy.  I don't think you are denying it, but you are implying it's not as important as it is.  But to suggest playing time availability is the only thing is disingenious.  Guess what, North Florida probably had a lot of playing time, too.  Doesn't mean a kid is going to go there.  IU knows that for the first 3 years of TC's tenure they aren't going to the NCAA tournament, thus a lot of kids aren't going to sign up for that deal.  Playing time or not, they want to go to the NCAAs.  That program was decimated and the rebuilding much longer than most programs.

I really can't believe you are making the argument about his recruiting right now considering what he has to deal with.  If he starts cranking out top 15 classes year after year once they turn it around, then what....I suppose then that absolutely solidifies his reason for leaving, right?  Time will tell on all fronts....for Buzz...for TC...etc.  Wishing them both the best.