The Truth About Crean & Buzz...

[ChicosBailBonds]

actually, I worked in the athletic office my freshman year with Cords, two of the blue and gold fund guys (their names escape me at the moment... Al and Brian, IIRC), so your point there is really not on point.  Additionally, I waited on him while he had a membership at Mequon CC, and you guessed it, he was a huge douche there.  He showed up in shorts and a windbreaker to DINNER with his family and was a complete dick to all of them.  Including his father-in-law and Joanie, and his two children.  In fact, that was the day he lost my respect completely.  But the details, I'll keep them to myself.

Chicos, my problem with you is while you claim to think Crean is an AHole you are the first to come running to his defense.  You step up when anyone makes a disparaging remark about him and that is why you get labeled the way you do.  I understand what he did, and I am happy with most of it.  But NEVER for a second did I think he was loyal.  

You don't need to defend him.  If people can't see that he was a mostly positive impact on the university, they are kidding themselves.  But the problem that most people have with him is that it really was all about him.  He called attention to himself anytime he could.  It just IS who Tom Crean is.  

While you may call this a "honeymoon" period with Buzz, I just don't see it that way.  He seems to be completely honest TO A FAULT (as many would say).  And I know this may be a show, but this is why I give him the benefit of the doubt, and why I trust him.  I apologize for the douche comment, but its just how I'd describe you in one word.  I couldn't think of anything at the time, and its just what came to mind.

Tom doesn't need someone on these boards to sit here and defend his BS... so why do you constantly do it?

Hards, I don't disagree that he was a douche...but when people say here he couldn't coach, couldn't recruit, couldn't this, couldn't that....it defies reality.  That's all.  

Show me where I defend Tom Crean the PERSON?   I don't....I simply set the record straight on the reality...he was the 2nd best coach at MU in our history.  Those are facts, pretty simple.  Now maybe Buzz will end up being the 2nd best or even the best in MU history, and I'll defend his record as well from any clowns saying to the contrary.

I don't defend Tom Crean the person, but I don't accept stupidity from posters that like to restate history either.  There is a difference.

And as I stated earlier, there are some saying that Buzz is a complete dick and pretty boy in real life as well....we'll see if that's true or just sour grapes, but that's come up now on at least three boards.  The newsflash is that most of these coaches are not the nicest people in the world....Mike Sciosia is the one exception as the head man in all my years (and John Wooden, but I never worked with him) in the industry. Lots of assistant coaches are great, but when you become the head man, it changes people, it really does.

Can we stop the personal name calling, or is that silliness going to continue from you?  And I didn't realize working in the B&G office as a Freshman was working for Tom Crean, but maybe it was.  Things have changed over the years so maybe that was happening, I don't know.

[mviale]

I am very happy with Buzz. But there is no way we are going to win a national title in 5 years. Our talent is good, but no where near North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas.

That is is subjective - top 100 vs. Top 25 talent. Its all about chemistry and maybe a little luck.  We will be there with the talent building.

[Lennys Tap]

You do realize the Buzz scouted the Kentucky game that year and we barely won.  You also realize that at the end of the year Stanford beat UCLA once and lost to them in OT in the last 10 days of the sesson...a UCLA team that went to the Final Four.

So far, Buzz is doing a nice job.  But as I've been reminded by so many on this board, it doesn't matter what you do except for the tournament (note, that's not my position)...so we'll see how things go in the next few years.

Hopefully really good...all MU fans would be happy if that were the case.

But it sure does seem funny how much people fall in love with coaches in their first few years.

Sherman
McCarthy
Crean
Buzz
Jeter

Etc, etc

You do realize that two days after Stanford beat us they were annihilated by Texas and their quickness. They pressured Stanford's mediocre guards (TC decided not to) and ran them out of the gym.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Did you have to pump his stomach after the dinner? The food absolutely sucks sewer water there. And, why not enlighten the rest of us with the details. I'm sure it won't shock most. BTW, did he ever leave the waitstaff any additional gratuity? Ah, I probably know the answer to that.

Tamara told me that he never tipped you guys after a bowl of Medium either.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You do realize that two days after Stanford beat us they were annihilated by Texas and their quickness. They pressured Stanford's mediocre guards (TC decided not to) and ran them out of the gym.

Yes, I do....in the state of Texas, too, if I recall.  Stanford was ranked what, 7th in the nation that year?   We took them overtime and lost on a great shot at the buzzer.  You guys make it sound like we were favored by 20 points or something.

Oh, and that great pressure you're talking about....Stanford had 10 turnovers against Texas....they had 8 against MU.  Barely a difference.  The problem was that they had too many easy baskets down low where their bigs killed our bigs.

I wonder why Ben Howland, Lute Olsen, Mike Montgomery, Herb Sendek, Tony Bennett, Tim Floyd, etc, etc didn't pressure their guards all year as well....those stupid coaches.    

[bilsu]

Why would anyone say there is no way we'll win a national title within 5 years.  Anything is possible and with back to back top 20 classes it's more than just a pipedream.  In addition we're top 10 in attendance, in the best if not one of the best conferences, have top ten facilities and we've done it before in 1977 when Kansas, NC and other teams were awfully good then too. 

Get rid of the "I won't get my hopes up so I don't get hurt" reflex and let's keep supporting the program and pushing them to this ultimate goal.

I've heard Coach Collins say he went from Fairfield to MU and the mentality here is trying to win national championships....thank God none of you guys are on the coaching staff to tell kids not to get their hopes up.   

How many McDonalds all-americans do we have? I think if you look at the most recent NCAA champions they generally have three NBA first round draft choices on their teams.

[Fullodds]

You do realize the Buzz scouted the Kentucky game that year and we barely won.  

MU won by 8....probably covered the spread.  Not sure how we barely won.  Kentucky needed a crazy 3 pt shooting display by Crawford to stay close.

[ChicosBailBonds]

MU won by 8....probably covered the spread.  Not sure how we barely won.  Kentucky needed a crazy 3 pt shooting display by Crawford to stay close.

It was a one possession game with under 24 seconds to play....maybe "barely" isn't the right word, but it was uncomfortable at the end of that game.

[Fullodds]

It was the most relaxed I've been watching MU in the dance since 2003 v. Kentucky.  I still get nervous watching the 1st and 2d round games from 2003 despite knowing the outcome.   

MU v. Holy Cross, Missouri (x2),

[Doctor V]

MU won by 8....probably covered the spread.  Not sure how we barely won.  Kentucky needed a crazy 3 pt shooting display by Crawford to stay close.

spread was 7. jodie meeks jacks up a 3 with kentucky down 6 and wes grabs the board and gets fouled with like .4 sec.... MU wins by 8, I win by 100

[Doctor V]

I waited on him while he had a membership at Mequon CC, and you guessed it, he was a huge douche there.  He showed up in shorts and a windbreaker to DINNER with his family and was a complete dick to all of them.  Including his father-in-law and Joanie, and his two children.  In fact, that was the day he lost my respect completely.  But the details, I'll keep them to myself.


Did you have to pump his stomach after the dinner? The food absolutely sucks sewer water there. And, why not enlighten the rest of us with the details. I'm sure it won't shock most. BTW, did he ever leave the waitstaff any additional gratuity? Ah, I probably know the answer to that.

he may not have tipped well, but he brought us JJ's when we stood in line outside the BC. Payed for it outta pocket, stand up guy

[MU B2002]

I am very happy with Buzz. But there is no way we are going to win a national title in 5 years. Our talent is good, but no where near North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas.

But our talent is not going to leave early, unlike most of the big name guys in those programs.

(And yes, I am making 2 assumptions in order to try and argue.) 

[New Era Warriors]

chicos--- are you friggin serious? ya the reason we "barely" beat Kentucky was because Buzz scouted them?!?!? are you out of your mind? get off Crean's dick for once and open up your eyes!! (if you can...) that has nothing to do with Buzz. Crean was an arrogant a-hole who never connected with his fans. he lied through his teeth and was the biggest man of speaking "coach speak." he tanned and did not drink. end of story.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It was the most relaxed I've been watching MU in the dance since 2003 v. Kentucky.  I still get nervous watching the 1st and 2d round games from 2003 despite knowing the outcome.   

MU v. Holy Cross, Missouri (x2),

I'm a nervous nellie.  Up by 2 points with 23 seconds left and having to inbound the ball, scary stuff.  Then having to hit two free throws.  I was not relaxed, especially if he misses that first free throw.  Fortunately he didn't.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Shooter, you would understand why I said the thing about scouting if you've been on this board long enough.  The Crean haters bashed Izzo for having Crean involved in scouting for them during their NCAA run last year.  When MSU won, it was because of Izzo.  When they lost in the championship, well it was because Crean was scouting.  LOL.  I just thought it ironic that when Buzz was scouting some of our games and we performed not to the greatest level....well you get the idea.

It's always fun to watch one set of standards for one guy and a different set for another.  Makes me chuckle

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, I do....in the state of Texas, too, if I recall.  Stanford was ranked what, 7th in the nation that year?   We took them overtime and lost on a great shot at the buzzer.  You guys make it sound like we were favored by 20 points or something.

Oh, and that great pressure you're talking about....Stanford had 10 turnovers against Texas....they had 8 against MU.  Barely a difference.  The problem was that they had too many easy baskets down low where their bigs killed our bigs.

I wonder why Ben Howland, Lute Olsen, Mike Montgomery, Herb Sendek, Tony Bennett, Tim Floyd, etc, etc didn't pressure their guards all year as well....those stupid coaches.    

You also realize that MU had the benefit of back to back tecnicals on the Stanford coach - 4 gift points and their leader thrown out of the building. Add that to Jerel having his best game ever at MU to that point and everything was pointing to an MU victory. Unfortunately, we laid off their guards and allowed them easy passes into the post and the rest is history.

[tower912]

190 wins.   Near 100% graduation rate.   Not a sniff of NCAA violations.   Shepherded us into the BEast, whether he deserves credit for the move or not.   First FF in 26 years.     
Failed to close the deal when recruiting bigs which, IMHO, led to his second most glaring flaw, in game adjustments.     Hyped the heck out of the program and himself.     A whispering campaign that he treated his underlings poorly.     I thank him for his service, but I think it likely that it was time for him to go, as he felt he had maxxed out at MU and the whispers were growing louder.    Hopefully, Buzz does better.   

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

A whispering campaign that he treated his underlings poorly.   

Campaign? The only assistant he could keep around was Rab and he was radioactive in the coaching community! We had more than one assistant leave after a single season.

The guy is an a-hole. If we re-hired Bob Dukiet after he left it would have been an upgrade personality-wise. A huge upgrade.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Campaign? The only assistant he could keep around was Rab and he was radioactive in the coaching community! We had more than one assistant leave after a single season.

The guy is an a-hole. If we re-hired Bob Dukiet after he left it would have been an upgrade personality-wise. A huge upgrade.

Didn't Buckley come back to work with Crean? Didn't Barone follow him to IU? A lot of former players have been on his staff(s) as well. Wardle, Harris, etc.

I'm not saying their aren't reasons to dislike TC, but let's keep the debate factual.

TC is tough to work for, but it's not like every single person that has ever worked with him hates him (like you make it seem).

[jt92]

This is very interesting discussion.   Here is the fact of the matter...Crean did some good things and brought more attention to himself and the University.  I think the best thing he did was to get students more involved.  But the person most reponsible for MU's success is Dwyane Wade.  When I think of Crean I think of all the post season losses.  The losses in conference tournaments to powers like TCU, and UAB.  And first round losses to Tulsa and MSU where they were lucky to score a bucket in the first half.  The loss to Stanford bothers me to no end because of what DuaneWade rightly pointed out. 

I also agree with Duanewade who says MU could win a national championship within 5 years.   Everyone knows we are in play with some of the big recruits and have nailed a couple.  I remember a few short years ago people on the MU message boards claiming that the MU would be better off playing the likes of Dayton.  Well all of you do-gooders were proved wrong because you didn't think MU should set the bar so high...you will be proved wrong once again.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

You also realize that MU had the benefit of back to back tecnicals on the Stanford coach - 4 gift points and their leader thrown out of the building. Add that to Jerel having his best game ever at MU to that point and everything was pointing to an MU victory. Unfortunately, we laid off their guards and allowed them easy passes into the post and the rest is history.

Uhm, yeah....and after those two technicals....what did the referees do the remainder of the 1st half and carried it on through the second half as the home town Stanford and UCLA crowd were going ballistic at the Honda Center?  

Well, let's see.....13 straight minutes, one foul called on Stanford but 9 fouls called on MU.

MU gets in massive foul trouble and you want us to get into their guards more when we had guys in foul trouble plus they were in the bonus?  Smart.     The refs totally overreacted throwing out Johnson and then they went into major makeup mode for a good chunk of the game.  Stanford took more than 2X the free throws we took and playing up on their guards even more was only going to extend that advantage further.


I forgot that we were favored to win by 20 points against #7 Stanford that game.


I don't know why some of you keep making this an either \ or situation.  It is possible to appreciate what Crean did and also appreciate what Buzz is doing.  I sure do.  For some of you, it appears you must hate Crean in order to like Buzz.  I don't get it. Why can't both be appreciated?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Even I could see 20/20 from my barcalounger 2000 miles away that we needed to not let  Stanford post up under the basket. How many identical shots from about three feet away did he take at the end of the game? All we had to do was beat the guy to the spot and have him take a differant look.  Coaching error ALL THE WAY. No adjustment was made.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Even I could see 20/20 from my barcalounger 2000 miles away that we needed to not let  Stanford post up under the basket. How many identical shots from about three feet away did he take at the end of the game? All we had to do was beat the guy to the spot and have him take a differant look.  Coaching error ALL THE WAY. No adjustment was made.

LOL....and you don't think Crean and Buzz didn't know that too?  Please.  You may have noticed what happened to our bigs in that game as they basically fouled out or had 4 fouls.  We were handcuffed in a huge way.  Buzz will tell you the same thing.  When we doubled, they would pass out.  When we didn't, we got killed for 2 points or the foul. 

Incidentally, they jumped out to a 9-0 or 11-2 lead, can't remember, by going into the post each time.  Crean called a timeout, we did make some adjustments, and we caught up and took the lead. 

Again, damn that Howland, Bennett, Floyd, Montgomery, etc, etc....those stupid coaches for letting the Stanford twin towers go off on them, too.....didn't they know how easy it was to just beat them to the spot and have them take a different look?  LOL