Mark Martin

[GGGG]

Rarely do I encourage use of the ignore button, but Jay Bee makes that prospect awfully tempting. His pattern of his idiotic behavior has become uber-predictable, and even more lame...

1. Make some idiotic, uninformed comment.
2. Someone else points out the many things wrong with said comment.
3. Raise the level of ridiculousness of subsequent comments in an attempt to make it appear as if the first was just one in a line of facetious and/or "humorous" comments.

4. Say his comments often enough so people just ignore him enough to declare victory.

My feeling is that anyone who posts in the Superbar more than in the Al just wants attention anyway.

[🏀]

  Hey look, the wikipedia citings continue to impress me, but the comparison between baseball in the 40s and 50s and Nascar today is something I would only expect a mascot to come up with.  Paige is an exception, not a rule.  Over time, MLB players have, on average, gotten younger.. perhaps as time goes on, Nascar will have fewer old, obese men and pettite little girls in it.  Yee haw

I love how you can make such sweeping generalizations about all NASCAR drivers based off of Tony Stewart, Danica Patrick, and Mark Martin.

I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if I made a sweeping generalization about yourself now would you, Jay Bee?

[Hards Alumni]

I always love when people say he drives a car...big deal.  Have any of you ever driven a car like that?  I worked extensively with NASCAR the last three years and have had the opportunity to drive on several tracks, not as a passenger, but actually driving.  My top speed was 152 at California Speedway with 7 other cars on the track with me.  I did 12 laps and was absolutely exhausted.  Those cars are a load....these guys are in great shape and have to make decisions in a split second that are incredible.

Whether it's a "sport" or not, is debatable, but it's definitely a big deal to drive a care with 42 other cars all going 150mph plus  (on some tracks, 200mph).

Is golf a sport?  Or is it a game?  Is bowling a sport...or a game?  We could have this argument about many things...curling, gymnastics, bowling, golf, motor sports, etc.


The definition of sport does not necessarily include physical activities, in includes things like card games, board games.  In the general definition of SPORT, it most certainly applies.  It was one of the first things taught to us in graduate school.  It's not a degree in SPORTS administration, it's a degree in SPORT Administration.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport

Proof of Chico's ability to be a humongous douche.

Additionally, with a little practice, MANY people could drive a car around the track.  NASCAR has always been about who gets the most financial backing, and who has the best pit crew.  Why do you think some drivers go from top 10 some years to drifting away to the back of the pack the next year... just to see them rise back up after getting a new 'team'.  This is preposterous.  To think that the drivers are athletes is also ridiculous.  How much arm strength does it take to shift, pedal, and steer?  By that sort of logic I am an athlete every day on my way to work!

Be honest, if you saw a NASCAR driver walking down the street would you look at him and think that he looks like an athlete?  No, you wouldn't.  Compared to a basketball player, or football, or even a track star, these guys look like every day Joe's.

NASCAR is not a sport.  Golf, to me, is not a sport.  Its a past time or a hobby.  That said, I consider it more of a sport than NASCAR because it requires more than menial physical activity.

[GGGG]

Proof of Chico's ability to be a humongous douche.

Additionally, with a little practice, MANY people could drive a car around the track.  NASCAR has always been about who gets the most financial backing, and who has the best pit crew.  Why do you think some drivers go from top 10 some years to drifting away to the back of the pack the next year... just to see them rise back up after getting a new 'team'.  This is preposterous.  To think that the drivers are athletes is also ridiculous.  How much arm strength does it take to shift, pedal, and steer?  By that sort of logic I am an athlete every day on my way to work!

Be honest, if you saw a NASCAR driver walking down the street would you look at him and think that he looks like an athlete?  No, you wouldn't.  Compared to a basketball player, or football, or even a track star, these guys look like every day Joe's.

NASCAR is not a sport.  Golf, to me, is not a sport.  Its a past time or a hobby.  That said, I consider it more of a sport than NASCAR because it requires more than menial physical activity.

Chicos is being a "douche" because he has a different definition of "sport" than you do?

Hmmmm....

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

NASCAR has always been about who gets the most financial backing, and who has the best pit crew.  Why do you think some drivers go from top 10 some years to drifting away to the back of the pack the next year... just to see them rise back up after getting a new 'team'. 

I've seen this happen in tennis, golf (but you don't consider that a sport) and sometimes in long distance track and field.

Athlete's have peaks and valleys, and that's why they are great in some tournaments or races or games, and horrible in others.

I'm not saying that NASCAR teams aren't important (you're right about that), but I think you are going to an extreme and oversimplifying it.


*Back to your regularly scheduled Chico bashing and subsequent name dropping.*

[NavinRJohnson]

How much arm strength does it take to shift, pedal, and steer?  By that sort of logic I am an athlete every day on my way to work!

OK. Now instead of going 65 on your way to work on a freeway, increase that to 170-200 MPH on an enclosed track, with 3 dozen others inches away from you...and do that for 3 hours. Great analogy!

[ChicosBailBonds]

OK. Now instead of going 65 on your way to work on a freeway, increase that to 170-200 MPH on an enclosed track, with 3 dozen others inches away from you...and do that for 3 hours. Great analogy!

You can tell Hard on has never actually done this yet he rips people saying that anyone could do it.  Not surprising.


43 cars whipping around at that speed requires incredible mental fortitude and concentration along with the physical attributes. 

[Jay Bee]

You can tell Hard on has never actually done this yet he rips people saying that anyone could do it.  Not surprising.

43 cars whipping around at that speed requires incredible mental fortitude and concentration along with the physical attributes. 

  I agree you need something unique in the mind to do this (whether it's better described as 'mental fortitude' or 'being a weird hillbilly dirtball freakshow' is debatable), but I'm failing to understand the physical attributes.  Is it being a fat old man?  Is it being a tiny little 5'2, 100 pound girl?  I just don't see it what the common physical attributes are that are required to race cars.  I suppose you might say stellar hand-eye coordination?  But, if the answer is 'great upper arm strength... big strong legs... fit with tons of endurance, etc'... just can't see it.

  All this car talk is making me crave a big ol chew.  And I might call up my hot cousin and see what she's up to this weekend.  I hope the store has Budweiser on special. 
   

[ChicosBailBonds]

  I agree you need something unique in the mind to do this (whether it's better described as 'mental fortitude' or 'being a weird hillbilly dirtball freakshow' is debatable), but I'm failing to understand the physical attributes.  Is it being a fat old man?  Is it being a tiny little 5'2, 100 pound girl?  I just don't see it what the common physical attributes are that are required to race cars.  I suppose you might say stellar hand-eye coordination?  But, if the answer is 'great upper arm strength... big strong legs... fit with tons of endurance, etc'... just can't see it.

  All this car talk is making me crave a big ol chew.  And I might call up my hot cousin and see what she's up to this weekend.  I hope the store has Budweiser on special. 
   

IRL is different than NASCAR.  Yes, being a 5'2" girl for IRL is possible because those things run on rails.  She will find in NASCAR that she is probably overmatched at first due to the physical constraints.

All I can say is you're fighting the wheel often and at that speed, it requires a tremendous amount of strength to keep the car on the track and not hitting your other 42 competitors all while going 200mph.

Yes, I totally get that many people don't think it's a sport, that's fine.  Everyone has their own opinions, but to when people say it's easy or doesn't require anything special to do, they're just wrong.

[muwarrior87]

does holding having to go to the bathroom for 3 hours count as a physical attribute?

[MU B2002]

   All this car talk is making me crave a big ol chew.  And I might call up my hot cousin and see what she's up to this weekend.  I hope the store has Budweiser on special. 
   

What could only think of 3 southern stereotypes?  You're slipping Jay Bee.

[Hards Alumni]

remove the power steering and I *MIGHT* consider it a sport.

does it require skill?  yes, but many things do.

these people are NOT athletes.

99.9% of people never get a CHANCE to drive a car that fast... so who is to say that more than 50% of people couldn't do it?

what a stupid argument.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

remove the power steering and I *MIGHT* consider it a sport.

does it require skill?  yes, but many things do.

these people are NOT athletes.

99.9% of people never get a CHANCE to drive a car that fast... so who is to say that more than 50% of people couldn't do it?

what a stupid argument.

Just so I'm clear, you're stance is that 50% of the population might be prodigies and magically able to drive a race car at 200 mph?

I mean, I've never had a chance to poll vault, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be good at it. Right?

[Jay Bee]

Just so I'm clear, you're stance is that 50% of the population might be prodigies and magically able to drive a race car at 200 mph?

I mean, I've never had a chance to poll vault, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be good at it. Right?

  Pole vault.  Your vs. you're.

  I'm certain there are no good pole vaulters who look anything like Tony Stewart.  Or like that tub Sarah Fisher.  There are some activities where being in good shape doesn't matter much - such as race car driving, Dungeons & Dragons and cheering for the Packers and/or Badgers.

  By the way, I continue to believe car racing meets a reasonable definition of 'sport'.  It's just stupid and silly sport.  And icky.

[TallTitan34]

Did you really just indent paragraphs on a message board?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

  Pole vault.  Your vs. you're.

  I'm certain there are no good pole vaulters who look anything like Tony Stewart.  Or like that tub Sarah Fisher.  There are some activities where being in good shape doesn't matter much - such as race car driving, Dungeons & Dragons and cheering for the Packers and/or Badgers.

  By the way, I continue to believe car racing meets a reasonable definition of 'sport'.  It's just stupid and silly sport.  And icky.

good catch on the grammar. my bad.

As far as if it's a sport or not a sport, I have no idea, and I think it's a stupid argument. But, some of you guys are pretending that it's not a skill, when certainly it is a skill.

Hards, I'm not sure that assuming 50% of people could secretly be good race car drivers is a good way to prove a point. Just seems a bit silly. I can find 10,000 activities that I've never tried and it's safe to assume I would suck at. Race driving included.  

Jay Bee,
I would not describe John Kruk as a physically fit person (later in his career), but he was a hell of a ball player. But, that doesn't mean that anybody can get up and hit a baseball.

Physical fitness is NOT required for a lot of skills in life, some of those skills are even sports related.

[dsfire]

Just so I'm clear, you're stance is that 50% of the population might be prodigies and magically able to drive a race car at 200 mph?

I mean, I've never had a chance to poll vault, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be good at it. Right?

Probably one of the worst analogies possible.  Pole vaulters require a combination of speed, strength and agility that's probably more diverse than any other track and field event, and I'd be amazed if there are any successful pole vaulters that weren't in incredible all-around shape.  Golf, on the other hand...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Probably one of the worst analogies possible.  Pole vaulters require a combination of speed, strength and agility that's probably more diverse than any other track and field event, and I'd be amazed if there are any successful pole vaulters that weren't in incredible all-around shape.  Golf, on the other hand...

yes, but the point Hards was making is that 50% of the population could be good at race car driving if they were just given a chance.

Well, most people have never been given the chance to pole vault, fly a plane, ride a horse, play hockey, surf, etc., and I think it's safe to assume that people wouldn't just automatically be good at any of those activities.

They all require different skill sets, and most people wouldn't be able to do those activities at a high level.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying NASCAR is a sport, I'm just saying that it's certainly a skill (that most people don't have), so let's not pretend that it isn't.

[Hards Alumni]

yes, but the point Hards was making is that 50% of the population could be good at race car driving if they were just given a chance.

Well, most people have never been given the chance to pole vault, fly a plane, ride a horse, play hockey, surf, etc., and I think it's safe to assume that people wouldn't just automatically be good at any of those activities.

They all require different skill sets, and most people wouldn't be able to do those activities at a high level.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying NASCAR is a sport, I'm just saying that it's certainly a skill (that most people don't have), so let's not pretend that it isn't.

I guess you could infer that was what I was saying... exactly that... but that would be you.  You missed the point, completely.  It was a hypothetical... see the phrase "so who is to say". 

I never said it didn't take skill.  It clearly does.  But does that make them athletes in a sport?  Not in my opinion!  It takes skill to mow straight lines in the lawn!  It takes skill to do a LOT of things.  Does that make them sports?

NO.

fwiw, flying a plane is ridiculously easy... as is riding a horse (as in, probably 50% of people could pick it up in a few hours) I would consider the other things you listed as sports that some people no matter how hard they tried they could not be good at... because they require some semblance of athletic ability.

put it this way, if you are over 50 and can play the 'game' it probably isn't a sport.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I guess you could infer that was what I was saying... exactly that... but that would be you.  You missed the point, completely.  It was a hypothetical... see the phrase "so who is to say". 

I never said it didn't take skill.  It clearly does.  But does that make them athletes in a sport?  Not in my opinion!  It takes skill to mow straight lines in the lawn!  It takes skill to do a LOT of things.  Does that make them sports?

NO.

fwiw, flying a plane is ridiculously easy... as is riding a horse (as in, probably 50% of people could pick it up in a few hours) I would consider the other things you listed as sports that some people no matter how hard they tried they could not be good at... because they require some semblance of athletic ability.

put it this way, if you are over 50 and can play the 'game' it probably isn't a sport.

flying a plane might be easy.

flying a fighter plane = hard.

Riding a horse = easy. Being a race jockey = hard.

Surfing = easy. Being a competitive surfer = hard.

Driving a car = easy. Racing a car = hard.

I'll leave it to you guys to argue about the "sport" vs "not a sport" thing (I never said it was a sport), but let's not make racing sound easy, that's naive. It's hard to do well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

remove the power steering and I *MIGHT* consider it a sport.

does it require skill?  yes, but many things do.

these people are NOT athletes.

99.9% of people never get a CHANCE to drive a car that fast... so who is to say that more than 50% of people couldn't do it?

what a stupid argument.

So you believe that 50% of the people could drive a car 200mph for 250 laps while 42 other cars are also going 200mph at the same time in the same space.

Uhm yeah, talk about a stupid argument.  I'm pretty sure 50% could make a layup, too. 

At the end of the day, several billion dollars and a crap load of fans, second only to the NFL the last few years, say it's a sport.  I think that's all the networks really care about quite frankly.

[Hards Alumni]

So you believe that 50% of the people could drive a car 200mph for 250 laps while 42 other cars are also going 200mph at the same time in the same space.

Uhm yeah, talk about a stupid argument.  I'm pretty sure 50% could make a layup, too. 

At the end of the day, several billion dollars and a crap load of fans, second only to the NFL the last few years, say it's a sport.  I think that's all the networks really care about quite frankly.

the point is that most people never have the CHANCE to drive a car that fast, so who knows if we even have the best drivers out there?  MOST kids at some point in their lives pick up a basketball and have an opportunity to see how they fare at the sport. 

As for 2k2's arguement, I get your point, its not easy... but I'm not arguing that it isn't... I'm saying it isn't a sport. 

and just because millions of people attend and watch something on TV that does not make it a sport.  WWE anyone?  Shall we start that debate next?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

the point is that most people never have the CHANCE to drive a car that fast, so who knows if we even have the best drivers out there?  MOST kids at some point in their lives pick up a basketball and have an opportunity to see how they fare at the sport. 

Yea, but a lot of people don't get chance to downhill ski, and we can all still recognize that it's hard and most people can't do it. I just can't understand this line of thinking. Just because a lot of people don't get a chance to try something doesn't mean that it's not difficult.

As for 2k2's arguement, I get your point, its not easy... but I'm not arguing that it isn't... I'm saying it isn't a sport. 

Cool. We agree there.

and just because millions of people attend and watch something on TV that does not make it a sport.  WWE anyone?  Shall we start that debate next?

Agreed. Just because millions of people watch something, it doesn't mean it's a sport.

[Hards Alumni]

I learned to downhill ski when I was 7... 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I learned to downhill ski when I was 7... 

I learned to drive at 10.

Doesn't mean I could be a race car driver. It means I have irresponsible parents.