David Ortiz and Manny on doping list

[ChicosBailBonds]

Shocking I tell ya, shocking.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html?_r=1



For the record, it would not surprise me if a few guys on my Halos were on it as well...including Vlad, Glaus and Fulmer

[VwArrior1]

Glad to see I'm not the only Angels fan on this site.  I doubt Vlad has taken steroids.  His numbers are just too consistent throughout the years.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I am flabbergasted that lovable David Ortiz, who was RELEASED BY THE TWINS!!!, partook in this. I thought it was the boy genius Theo Epstein who rejuventated "Big Papi's" career. Varitek? Johnny Damon? Please! Let's throw Nomar (I know he wasn't on the champs) on that heap as well...no doubt about it.

The whole organization was a walking syringe!!

PS: Lockdown, you "doubt Vlad has taken steroids? Give me a break!

[g0lden3agle]

I think at this point it isn't fair to those that have been ousted through these back alley transactions that the other 90 some players that were on the list have not been made public as well.  This list was never intended to become public, and now names have started to slowly trickle out, putting the spotlight on a few guys at a time.  If the MLB were to just release all the names, the press coverage of this one release would be far less than the time they would spend on each individual leak.

[mugrad99]

If I were one of these players outed, I would sue. These tests were taken voluntarily based on the fact that the results would not become public. If I lost one dollar of earnings because of this, someone would be sued.

[4everwarriors]

I'm actually shocked when a player has not used steroids. We're talking a lot of money on player contracts. I think they're all guilty of enhancing their performance. Pitchers, and their arm/shoulder injuries are the most obvious along with the sudden new found power hitters.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Glad to see I'm not the only Angels fan on this site.  I doubt Vlad has taken steroids.  His numbers are just too consistent throughout the years.

Impossible to say, but I understand your point.  Ortiz went from average player to God like player (remember, he was basically just released from the Twins).  Vlad has basically done the same thing year in and year out his whole career, but who knows.  Nothing surprises me anymore.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If I were one of these players outed, I would sue. These tests were taken voluntarily based on the fact that the results would not become public. If I lost one dollar of earnings because of this, someone would be sued.

Do you think they would win?  It sort of screams like the burglar suing the homeowner because the dog bit him when he was trying to rob the home.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think at this point it isn't fair to those that have been ousted through these back alley transactions that the other 90 some players that were on the list have not been made public as well.  This list was never intended to become public, and now names have started to slowly trickle out, putting the spotlight on a few guys at a time.  If the MLB were to just release all the names, the press coverage of this one release would be far less than the time they would spend on each individual leak.

Torii Hunter agrees with you

"Whoever got that list is just playing with Major League Baseball right now," Hunter told ESPN.com. "Either put [the list] away, or just put it out. It was anonymous and now the names are leaking and it's a joke."

[MU B2002]

Do you think they would win?  It sort of screams like the burglar suing the homeowner because the dog bit him when he was trying to rob the home.

In some courts nowadays, I am 100% sure that burglar would win.

[mugrad99]

Depends....I know this is a leap, but say the player had a DR prescription, and it technically was not against baseball rules at the time, and now his name comes out.  If he lost endorsement $$$ from this, he should sue. Granted, it would be hard to find a jury, but I am sure his attorney would have fun doing discovery.

[MilTown]

I think the consistency argument doesn't hold water. Take Manny for example, he was great on all those Cleveland teams, the Boston Teams, and now the Dodgers. My initial thought is that he was on the juice from Day 1.


I'm not really familiar with the specifics of the 2003 test. Would that test detect HGH, or just a number of steroids and testosterone?

[wadesworld]

Do you think they would win?  It sort of screams like the burglar suing the homeowner because the dog bit him when he was trying to rob the home.

Weren't these drugs legal at the time the test was taken?  At the time they weren't doing anything wrong, and they took an anonymous test.  If the anonymous test was taken today and released tomorrow, then yes they were doing something illegal and would be trying to sue while they themselves did something wrong, but at the time it wasn't illegal and the tests were anonymous yet now their names are out.  That is why these players don't get suspended when their names are released for 2003 tests.  The only players who get suspended are the ones who are dumb enough to test positive now that rules ban these substances, not the players who took them while they were still legal.

[Lighthouse 84]

I don't believe they tested for HGH then and can't now because no credible test is available.

As far as suing, I'm with Chico on this one.  I'm having a hard time coming up with a theory for them to sue under without being thrown out of court.

[mugrad99]

intentional infliction of emotional distress
breach of contract

[GGGG]

I think at this point it isn't fair to those that have been ousted through these back alley transactions that the other 90 some players that were on the list have not been made public as well.  This list was never intended to become public, and now names have started to slowly trickle out, putting the spotlight on a few guys at a time.  If the MLB were to just release all the names, the press coverage of this one release would be far less than the time they would spend on each individual leak.

Yes.  Clearly someone is playing with MLB.  Although sometimes I wonder if MLB is doing this purposely to wring more concessions out of the union.

[GGGG]

If I were one of these players outed, I would sue. These tests were taken voluntarily based on the fact that the results would not become public. If I lost one dollar of earnings because of this, someone would be sued.

Heh.  Good luck.  Denial is a much better option.  If you sue, it becomes out in the open.

And good luck getting money out of a jury.

[Lighthouse 84]

intentional infliction of emotional distress
breach of contract

i'd take the defense of each of those (with proper retainer) any day.  At least i'd rather have the defense of the claim than be the claimant.  i don't see the elements being met for intentional infliction.  furthermore, they've got a contract with their union.  if the union leaked the information without the authorization from its members, possibly....but i don't think it's the union leaking the info.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't believe they tested for HGH then and can't now because no credible test is available.

As far as suing, I'm with Chico on this one.  I'm having a hard time coming up with a theory for them to sue under without being thrown out of court.

Well, I think they can sue on a number of grounds, there is an entire cottage industry of suing.  Whether they have a chance to win, that's really what I was getting at.   

[77ncaachamps]

Vacate the World Champions spot, I say.

[TallTitan34]

I want to respond to several points throughout this thread.

- I believe Vlad is clean.  His numbers are decreasing gradually with age at the right age.  He is not getting stronger like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc did with age.  He is aging the way baseball players used to age.  The same goes for Ken Griffey Jr.

- I agree with wadesworld.  At the time the drugs weren't illegal so they can't be suspended.

- Ozzie Guillen said they should just released all these names at once instead of dragging it through the media.  Just rip the band aid off.  I wish that was possible but I don't think it will ever happen as the tests were suppose to be taken anonymously and were to never be released.

- Everyone is saying how the Bo Sox championship is tainted now.  I'm guessing every World Series in the past X year has been tainted as well with juicers so it's a dumb point.  Especially LaRussa's 2006 Cardinals!

[robmufan]

Bronson Arroyo is now saying he wouldn't be surprised if his name was on the list.

[NYWarrior]

Shocking I tell ya, shocking.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html?_r=1

For the record, it would not surprise me if a few guys on my Halos were on it as well...including Vlad, Glaus and Fulmer

It positively sucks.  The entire era is a joke.......Amazingly, sadly really, what we had this last decade was a juice-induced level playing field that will ensure any records and titles from the era are de-facto asterisked by the fans and hopefully the writers.

To wit, http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=bryant_howard&id=4081214

[NYWarrior]

Vlad has basically done the same thing year in and year out his whole career, but who knows.

I felt the same way about Manny, who's consistency was legendary.  Of course, as one other poster here noted......maybe he was just cheating the entire time.   Nobody is above suspicion anymore, particularly power hitters.

[reinko]

It positively sucks.  The entire era is a joke.......Amazingly, sadly really, what we had this last decade was a juice-induced level playing field that will ensure any records and titles from the era are de-facto asterisked by the fans and hopefully the writers.

To wit, http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=bryant_howard&id=4081214

The entire era is a joke?  Methinks that is a bit of hyperbole.  I think John Q. Public is being quasi-brainwashed by the media and columnists with all of this faux outrage.  (And baseball writers are bottom feeders IMHO in the media world.  The most egotistical of the lot.  I swear every baseball column references the old days of the game, when players played not for the $, but just because they love the game.)    

Am I looking back from 1988-2005, and all those games I went to and watched, and telling myself, "man, all of those memories, are just gone."  Of course not.  

And for the older fans (I am 29), who watched Mays, Mantle, Aaron, DiMaggio...I would think they would like to hear all this stuff come out because now their era is now being held in even higher esteem.  And don't tell me these types of things (PEDs) didn't go on back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s either.  Peope will always bend/break rules and hide in the gray to gain an advantage.  Hell Mickey Mantle was too drunk once a week during some seasons to play and completly effed his team, but he is hero, but Ortiz drinks a few shakes in the DR every winter, and he is a villian?  OK, totally fair.

This is sports, it's a game.  And the object is to win, at nearly any cost. Do we want players to take PEDs?  Of course not, but to write off the last 20 years of baseball, I just think that is silly.