Poll: 20Ks or Perfect Game

[TallTitan34]

In Chicago, alot of people are asking which feat is more impressive.  

I don't want to shortchange Buehrle's accomplishment at all, as it is an amazing feat, but I think Wood's 20 strikeout game is more impressive.  I may be biased though being a Cubs fan.

In Buehrle's perfect game, his defenders recorded 21 outs including an amazing catch by Wise.  But it is just that:  perfect.

In Wood's game, his fielders recorded 6 outs as one ball was a bouncer back to Wood himself.  And Wood's stuff that day was absolutely nasty.  Professional hitters looked Little Leaguers that day.  There was, however, a softly hit ground ball that bounced off third basemen Kevin Ories glove for a hit.

A perfect game has been thrown 18 times while a 20K game has only been thrown 4 or 5 times I believe.

What do you think?

[TallTitan34]

Here is a link to the debate on David Kaplan's blog.  You may recognize him as he does tv for MU games several times a year.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/david-kaplan-chicago-sports/2009/07/kerry-woods-20-strikeout-game-vs-mark-buehrles-perfect-game-which-was-more-impressive.html

Perfect game is winning on the blog with 55% of the vote.

[ChicosBailBonds]

From an individual perspective, I think it's the 20K's because it's basically the pitcher doing it all.  From a team perspective, I'd say the Perfect game because you're relying not just on the pitcher but the defense to make great plays behind you.

[Hards Alumni]

From an individual perspective, I think it's the 20K's because it's basically the pitcher doing it all.  From a team perspective, I'd say the Perfect game because you're relying not just on the pitcher but the defense to make great plays behind you.

exactly what I was going to say.  I think a lot of the people voting for perfect game aren't actually thinking about it before voting.

[pillardean]

I have to hand it to the perfect game in regards to the overall baseball experience.

In Buehrle's perfect game Wise robbed a home run to keep it going, that was absolutely incredible!  

In Sanchez' no hitter there was one error, so no Perfect Game.

A perfect game speaks to the team in it's entirety as well and an incredible individual pitching performance.  Best thing to watch.

However, 20K's in one game!  I remember watching that.  Incredible dominating stuff.  Better stuff than what Buehrle had in his Perfect Game.  

But I think the Perfect Game is more substantial as a team.  Also Buehrle did not hit a batter nor give up a walk.  The Perfect game occurs more often but still entirely priceless.  

You can still lose a game with a 20 K performance, unlikely but still possible.  You wouldn't lose a game on a completed Perfect game.  That is my ultimate measure.

[🏀]

Kerry Wood was filthy that day in May. Not too mention it was his 5th start.

[muwarrior87]

While 20k's is very impressive, aside from the Wise catch and a few other very good defensive plays and a few balls that went just foul that could have resulted in extra base hits, the Sox got the vast majority of their outs off of routine plays which means the pitcher was most likely hitting his spots and getting the hitters to do what he intends as a finesse pitcher, weak grounders to the infield to make the plays.  I think that while the strikeouts shows a pitcher dominating the other team, the fact that Buehrle pitched to his strengths and got the outs in a way that he is expected to is more impressive because he isn't a power pitcher.  He got the opposition out on its front foot and kept them guessing most of the day with a lot of weak contact.

[muwarrior87]

Kerry Wood was filthy that day in May. Not too mention it was his 5th start.

so there wasn't much of a scouting report on him is what you're saying 

[wadesworld]

I'd say the perfect game, but both are absolutely ridiculous.  I just think about how 1 mistake ends it all, whether it's 1 bad pitch that is hit, or 1 bad pitch that hits a batter, or 1 error by a teammate, or one bad call by an umpire.  If there were 3 or 4 web gems I might say 20 Ks, but Buehrle dominated the game.  Not in the form of strikeouts, but the only defensive play that really stuck out was Wise's catch (and that was absolutely ridiculous).  Other than that Buehrle made it look easy.  Both are hard to even imagine.

[TallTitan34]

If I was Sanchez in San Francisco, I'd be sooo pissed at Uribe for that error ruining the perfect game.  I guess without the error though he doesnt have the pressure of a perfect game....just a no-hitter!

[pillardean]

If I was Sanchez in San Francisco, I'd be sooo pissed at Uribe for that error ruining the perfect game.  I guess without the error though he doesnt have the pressure of a perfect game....just a no-hitter!

Haha +1

No kidding, Sanchez should't have to pay for a meal the rest of the year.
(Did I just agree to something Baseball related with TT?  What the hell!?)

[MilTown]

I have heard the argument that Wood really only had 19k's since he struck out the pitcher. Clemens struck out 20 twice and had to face the DH.

At the end of the day, it's a no-hitter, the most prestigious baseball accomplishment for a pitcher. The nod goes to Buehrle.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Reminds me of the argument about what is more rare...hitting for the cycle or pitching a no hitter.

At one point, hitting for the cycle was more rare, but then MLB threw out about 50 no hitters because they didn't meet their new definition.  It is now very slightly more rare to see a no hitter than the cycle.

[reinko]

I judge on what I would rather see in person, and for me personally, a perfect game hands down.

[NYWarrior]

The perfect game, no question about it.  The debate is not about stuff or the much ballyhooed "dominant outing"  -- it's about inimitable excellence.  A perfect game demonstrates the highest degree of excellence a pitcher can produce. The opposition, despite 27 opportunities, never reaches base.   Strikeouts merely are a means to an end.

And....strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist.  

BTW, note that Wood didn't walk anybody in his 20K game.......nor did Clemens in either of his 20K performances. Not sure about Big Unit

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The only hit Wood gave up was a scratch hit that deflected off the glove of third baseman Kevin Orie. Some thought it could have been an error. A better third baseman comes up with that play, which had a fraction of the degree of difficulty of Wise's 9th inning catch.

Buerhle's was phenomenal, Wood's was otherworldly. But I'd take MB's career. To me, Wood's entire career has been a major disappointment. I've never understood his popularity.

[Mayor McCheese]

The only hit Wood gave up was a scratch hit that deflected off the glove of third baseman Kevin Orie. Some thought it could have been an error. A better third baseman comes up with that play, which had a fraction of the degree of difficulty of Wise's 9th inning catch.

Buerhle's was phenomenal, Wood's was otherworldly. But I'd take MB's career. To me, Wood's entire career has been a major disappointment. I've never understood his popularity.

I voted for the perfect game, it is the pinnacle of what every pitcher wants to achieve in their baseball career: cy young, starter for all-star game, winning game 7 of the world series, perfect game.

Going with the dissapointing Wood career, FSN is replaying the game where Sheets strikes out 18 Atlanta Braves.  He was so good...when healthy, makes me mad everytime watching it, why tease me FSN?  why piss me off?  Still wish I could have seen a half of a season with Sabathia, Sheets and Gallardo healthy, could have been REAL dangerous in the playoffs, considering Sabathia might not have had to pitch every other day during the season then, keeping him fresh for the playoffs.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The perfect game, no question about it.  The debate is not about stuff or the much ballyhooed "dominant outing"  -- it's about inimitable excellence.  A perfect game demonstrates the highest degree of excellence a pitcher can produce. The opposition, despite 27 opportunities, never reaches base.   Strikeouts merely are a means to an end.

And....strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist.  

BTW, note that Wood didn't walk anybody in his 20K game.......nor did Clemens in either of his 20K performances. Not sure about Big Unit

I kind of disagree....wasn't the question "what is more impressive"?


There have been 18 perfect games in history, how many games with 20 strikeouts?

I believe there have been 4 games in MLB history with 20 strikeouts.

Either way, I wish I had a ticket for either one.


I saw Nolan Ryan's 300th win in person and I was at Angels stadium for the improbable game 6 comeback in the World Series trailing 5-0 in the 7th inning.   I'd love to be fortunate enough to see a no-hitter or a 20K strikeout game once in my life.

[TallTitan34]

I was at Zambrano's no-no and the atmosphere was incredible especially as it passed the fifth inning.

I wouldn't trade seeing that no-hitter let alone a perfect game for the 20k game. But I still think the 20K is a more impressive feat.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

I was at this game in Old Comiskey.  I saw a no hitter, my team won and the Yankees were the worst team in baseball.  

"Even a no-hitter couldn't produce a victory for the worst team in baseball.

Andy Hawkins of the New York Yankees today pitched the sixth no-hitter this season and the third in less than 48 hours, but he lost by 4-0 to the Chicago White Sox on two outfield errors in the eighth inning.

He is the first to pitch a complete game, allow no hits and lose since Houston's Ken Johnson in 1964 (1-0, to Cincinnati). In 1967 Steve Barber and Stu Miller of Baltimore combined to no-hit Detroit in a 2-1 loss."


As far as the topic goes....Perfect is always more impressive than non-perfect regardless of stats.  There is a reason they call it Perfect, you cannot do any better.

EDIT:  This happened July 2, 1990

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was at this game in Old Comiskey.  I saw a no hitter, my team won and the Yankees were the worst team in baseball.  

No you didn't.      


On September 4, 1991 the Committee for Statistical Accuracy, appointed by Commissioner Fay Vincent, changed the definition of a no-hitter to require that a pitcher throw at least nine full innings and a complete game. Since Hawkins played for the visiting team, the White Sox never batted in the ninth inning and Hawkins lost the credit for a no-hitter.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

No you didn't.      


On September 4, 1991 the Committee for Statistical Accuracy, appointed by Commissioner Fay Vincent, changed the definition of a no-hitter to require that a pitcher throw at least nine full innings and a complete game. Since Hawkins played for the visiting team, the White Sox never batted in the ninth inning and Hawkins lost the credit for a no-hitter.

I saw a pitcher throw the max. innings possible and not give up a hit.   A no-hitter.  Definitions formed by a bunch of clowns appointed by a clown are meaningless to me.  He had credit for a no hitter while I was sitting in the stands at the end of the game.   

The best part is the Yankees were the worst team in the league at the time.  End of year the Yankees had the second worst record and the Braves were the worst team in '90.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I saw a pitcher throw the max. innings possible and not give up a hit.   A no-hitter.  Definitions formed by a bunch of clowns appointed by a clown are meaningless to me.  He had credit for a no hitter while I was sitting in the stands at the end of the game.   

The best part is the Yankees were the worst team in the league at the time.  End of year the Yankees had the second worst record and the Braves were the worst team in '90.

My Angels lost a no-hitter as well as part of the way of defining it.  Last year the Halos lost to the Dodgers 1-0 as the Halos pitched a no hitter at Dodger stadium, but since we were the visiting team it didn't count. 

Well said here....the box score doesn't lie    http://openmike.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/29/1174700.aspx

[Ahoya06]

SaintPaul Warrior, I'm guessing by your name you live in the Twin Cities. See you going to any of the Sox/Twins games this week?

Watching right now as we're down in the 6th. God I hate that dome...

[SaintPaulWarrior]

SaintPaul Warrior, I'm guessing by your name you live in the Twin Cities. See you going to any of the Sox/Twins games this week?

Watching right now as we're down in the 6th. God I hate that dome...

Have season tickets for next year.  I will never step foot into that dump.

EDIT:  Except for 2003 MU/Pitt, MU/UK or any other future MU tourney games there.