MU - Xavier

[geps]

As a MU alum in Cincy wanted to get the opinion on MU vs Xavier as each program currently stands. Certainly MU more history but XU probably better recent history...

[mviale]

Next - thanks for driving thru

[Blackhat]

I'm not against starting a series with Xavier.     Not a priority but not against it. 

[New Era Warriors]

yeah youre right gepsguys

[94Warrior]

Refresh my memory - when was the last time XU was in the Final 4?

Seriously, Sean Miller had a nice run there, but that is over now.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Refresh my memory - when was the last time XU was in the Final 4?

Seriously, Sean Miller had a nice run there, but that is over now.

They were good before Miller, too.  Bobinski is a good AD.  They play in a competitive league but not a meat grinder.  Great on campus facility and in a city that doesn't have the NBA.  Xavier has a lot going for them, though Skyline chili is second rate compared to Real Chili.   

MU does hold a commanding head to head lead against Xavier, something like 44 to 15 or around there.  I'd bet if MU was in the A-10 that MU would do similarly to what Xavier would do in the Big East, but as a result of the conferences we are in, I think Xavier sometimes gets a better seed due to an inflated record based on the competition.

Overall, Xavier has done quite well.  Tip of the hat to them.

[dbwarriors]

I heard one of the Xavier players was at the open gym the other day.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Next - thanks for driving thru

I don't understand this response? Is this subject beneath you?

I think it's a good question. Frankly, I think Xavier has absolutely had more CONSISTENT success than MU. We keep holding up our Final Four appearance, but couldn't they follow that up by talking about our subsequent NIT bids and relative lack of NCAA success since?

As memory serves, they were in a Elite 8 recently and have had a couple of Sweet 16s.

I've always liked the Musketeers!

[GGGG]

I think Xavier is just a step below Marquette.  MU has a better history, and that is what got us into the BE, but Xavier has a very nice program that just hasn't gotten over the hump into the Final Four.

[bilsu]

Xavier is a step above MU, based on NCAA success over the last several years.

[Knight Commission]

Xavier has been a beneficiary of a relatively weak conference schedule that has enabled them to have high seeds in the NCAA tourney which in turn has given them opportunities for relatively easy paths in the first two rounds of the NCAA tourney. Because they dominate their conference they will benefit from seeding in the NCAA tourney like Memphis and Gonzaga.

While Chris Mack is a good guy, (I have known him for a long time), his recruiting ability is debatable. He may have been responsible for landing Frease, but he will be challenged to recruit the same caliber of player/athlete as Miller and Matta, especially because his AAU ties are weak and his top assistant has a pedigree too much like him (Kelsey--he should have made Book his top assistant). I also dont think he has the support of many alumni yet, despite his deep Cincinnati roots and being a Xavier alum. Accordingly I think he enters on a short leash.

By the way, I think the Cintas center is overrated--although its nice that is on campus.

Unless Xavier can break free of the A10 I see a return of Xavier to the days of Tay Baker.  

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Xavier made the Elite 8 in 2004 and 2008. They made the sweet sixteen last year. I'd say that's better than us. I don't care what conference they play in. Are you guys kidding?

[The Lens]

Shouldn't the A-10 be more of a detriment to XU's efforts than a help?  I thought us getting in the Big East was a good thing, I find it interesting how people use it as both a positive and a negative so they can always shape their arguements.

[robertoc]

as an additional point of referrence on this: during MUs post TC coaching search, Sean Miller's name was mentioned, but several columnists, reporters, and people close to Xavier's program said Miller saw MU at best as a lateral move, if not a slight step down.   

We definitely have the long term history- but aside from Wade's magical run- Xavier has definitely been better in the Tourney over the past 20 years.

And it wasn't just Sean Miller-  Pete Gillen, Skip Prosser, Thad Matta have all had success.  I have no doubt Mack will keep them a top 20 program.

[esotericmindguy]

I don't understand this response? Is this subject beneath you?

I think it's a good question. Frankly, I think Xavier has absolutely had more CONSISTENT success than MU. We keep holding up our Final Four appearance, but couldn't they follow that up by talking about our subsequent NIT bids and relative lack of NCAA success since?

As memory serves, they were in a Elite 8 recently and have had a couple of Sweet 16s.

I've always liked the Musketeers!

Don't over think it, Mviale is being a jacka$$. 

[AlumKCof93]

I have a lot of respect for Xavier - they've been a consistently good program for years, and as far as I know, they've been a clean program with players that do a good job representing its university. Should conferences realign, I'd hope that Marquette and Xavier would be in the same conference as they're seem to be a lot of similarities b/c the schools.

[hdog1017]

I love the Warriors, but I have to admit that the Muskateers have had a better run over the past few years than Marquette. 

I will always remember that 2nd round game that Xavier had with The Ohio State University a couple of years ago.  The Muskateers had that game, but then blew it.  Gus Johnson was going nuts, as he always does. 

[Lennys Tap]

I love the Warriors, but I have to admit that the Muskateers have had a better run over the past few years than Marquette. 

I will always remember that 2nd round game that Xavier had with The Ohio State University a couple of years ago.  The Muskateers had that game, but then blew it.  Gus Johnson was going nuts, as he always does. 

They blew it with the help of the gutless official who called a common foul on Oden instead of the obvious intentional. Reverse the jerseys and the seeds and that's an intentional every time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Shouldn't the A-10 be more of a detriment to XU's efforts than a help?  I thought us getting in the Big East was a good thing, I find it interesting how people use it as both a positive and a negative so they can always shape their arguements.

Great question, but to answer that depends on where you're coming from.  Moving to the Big East was a good thing coming from CUSA.   But it can also be a negative due to it's size and greatness because of the amount of losses that will pile on to your slate.

Yes, it can be both good and bad....it's not an absolute.  The A-10 is great for Xavier because they load up each year and win it.  CUSA for Memphis.  WCC for Gonzaga.   The answer is fairly simple that if you put Xavier, Memphis or Gonzaga in the Big East, they would all finish about where Marquette did.  If you put Marquette in their conferences, MU would win those conferences.   Yet when it came to seeding time, who got the benefits...Marquette or those other teams?

Advancing in the NCAAs is a lot about seeding.  The better seed, the farther you go.  When MU is getting seeds of 5 through 9 because they play in the Big East, that's are harder road then getting seeds 2 through 4.

So yes, the Big East is very good for MU considering where we came from and allowing Milwaukee to get excited about it (Milwaukee was not going to games with CUSA schools coming in), but there is the other side of the equation, too.

[ChicosBailBonds]

as an additional point of referrence on this: during MUs post TC coaching search, Sean Miller's name was mentioned, but several columnists, reporters, and people close to Xavier's program said Miller saw MU at best as a lateral move, if not a slight step down.   

We definitely have the long term history- but aside from Wade's magical run- Xavier has definitely been better in the Tourney over the past 20 years.

And it wasn't just Sean Miller-  Pete Gillen, Skip Prosser, Thad Matta have all had success.  I have no doubt Mack will keep them a top 20 program.

Part of that is also because Miller looked at his own sweet gig, knowing who he has to face in the A-10 vs having to go through the meet grinder that is the Big East.  Miller wasn't the only coach to say it's too tough a job, our AD and President mentioned that multiple candidates expressed those concerns (one has to assume that was Miller and Bennett).

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

No doubt the Big East is a meat grinder, but didn't two of our teams make it the Final Four with four in the Elite 8?

I believe our president and AD are both full of it on the people turning us down because it's too tough, by the way. I believe people may have used words "tough" when describing our conference, but perhaps it was something called "negotiation"...a process we seem to have difficulty with.

[GGGG]

I believe our president and AD are both full of it on the people turning us down because it's too tough, by the way.

Especially with Bennett taking the UVa job the next year.  Much tougher job than MU expectation-wise.

[bilsu]

Great question, but to answer that depends on where you're coming from.  Moving to the Big East was a good thing coming from CUSA.   But it can also be a negative due to it's size and greatness because of the amount of losses that will pile on to your slate.

Yes, it can be both good and bad....it's not an absolute.  The A-10 is great for Xavier because they load up each year and win it.  CUSA for Memphis.  WCC for Gonzaga.   The answer is fairly simple that if you put Xavier, Memphis or Gonzaga in the Big East, they would all finish about where Marquette did.  If you put Marquette in their conferences, MU would win those conferences.   Yet when it came to seeding time, who got the benefits...Marquette or those other teams?

Advancing in the NCAAs is a lot about seeding.  The better seed, the farther you go.  When MU is getting seeds of 5 through 9 because they play in the Big East, that's are harder road then getting seeds 2 through 4.

So yes, the Big East is very good for MU considering where we came from and allowing Milwaukee to get excited about it (Milwaukee was not going to games with CUSA schools coming in), but there is the other side of the equation, too.

Dayton beat us pretty good last year and they are in the A-10. I do not think we would have won the A-10.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

After that Dayton game, I recall some on this board dismissing it as "one of those games." If you ask me, they were just a better team than we were last year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dayton beat us pretty good last year and they are in the A-10. I do not think we would have won the A-10.

Perhaps, but Dayton also lost some pretty wicked games too.  It could have been just one of those days for us.

Let's put it this way, if we swapped spots with Xavier I don't think we would finish 5th in the A-10 like we did in the Big East.  Nor do I think Xavier would finish first in the Big East as they did in the A-10.


As for the Virginia job and those expectations, I don't agree.  Bennett is coming into a nice spot there. UVa is in the dumper and has been for awhile, you can only go up.  If you were a coach looking to come to MU where many perceived us to be at our ceiling, which job has more upside potential?   For the new UVa coach, the goal is to get to the NCAA tournament consistently, something they've struggled with of late.  For the new MU coach, the expecations at the very least keeping pace with what Crean did and possibly taking that next step.  Which is harder?   I'm guessing Bennett and Miller thought the MU job is harder to reach those goals.....let's not forget that this recent run by Crean hadn't been duplicated by anyone not named Al McGuire, whereas the periodic runs by UVa been been accomplished by multiple coaches.