Xavier Promotes Assistant HC

[muarmy81]

Looks like Xavier is set to promote one of their assistants.  Looks like Miller endorsed the guy...does this mean the Xavier process is flawed?
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/14510270

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If every other university jumped off of a bridge...

[Nukem2]

Xavier has a a soled run of very coaches/recruiters.  Will Mack fill those shoes?  There is  talent on hand, so he should have a good start.  Long term, can he recruit?  Miller says in the X media guide that he is an excellent recruiter.  time will tell.

[Pakuni]

Can't believe those fools promoted an assistant coach on the recommendation of the guy who just abandoned them. Couldn't they have conducted a more thorough search and found a more proven mid-major guy? They didn't even interview Chris Lowery! And the search only lasted a week!

Clearly the folks at Xavier have no idea how to run a basketball program.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What's most surprising to me is that Xavier never counteroffered to keep Miller from going to Arizona.  They didn't mind seeing him go which is interesting on many levels.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Comparing the MU situation to XU as it relates to hiring the particular assistants they did seems a bit disingenious.  Buzz was with MU for one year. 

Mack has been with Xavier forever.  He played at Xavier, he's been on Miller's staff for five years....he is Xavier.   In between he spent 3 years on Skip Prosser's staff at Wake Forest....yes, Skip Prosser....former head coach also at Xavier.

So to compare the two seems a bit off.  One is completely molded as a Xavier guy (player, alum, assistant coach for two excellent Xavier coaches) through and through.   

I'm sure Xavier thinks it is akin to what Gonzaga did with long time Gonzaga guy, Mark Few.  Or what Pitt did with long time Pitt guy, Jamie Dixon.  It doesn't always work out (Guthridge at UNC...though he did go to a Final Four)....examples of success and failure going this route.

One thing is certain, they got a Xavier man and that has to make them feel good.  Hopefully he's there for the long haul as they deserve the stability.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Comparing the MU situation to XU as it relates to hiring the particular assistants they did seems a bit disingenious.  Buzz was with MU for one year. 

Mack has been with Xavier forever.  He played at Xavier, he's been on Miller's staff for five years....he is Xavier.   In between he spent 3 years on Skip Prosser's staff at Wake Forest....yes, Skip Prosser....former head coach also at Xavier.

So to compare the two seems a bit off.  One is completely molded as a Xavier guy (player, alum, assistant coach for two excellent Xavier coaches) through and through.   

I'm sure Xavier thinks it is akin to what Gonzaga did with long time Gonzaga guy, Mark Few.  Or what Pitt did with long time Pitt guy, Jamie Dixon.  It doesn't always work out (Guthridge at UNC...though he did go to a Final Four)....examples of success and failure going this route.

One thing is certain, they got a Xavier man and that has to make them feel good.  Hopefully he's there for the long haul as they deserve the stability.

Thank you, Chicos. As near as I can tell, Mack also didn't have a history of walking out on previous jobs or bizarre personal behavior. Other than that, the situations are almost identical.

[GGGG]

I'm sure Xavier thinks it is akin to what Gonzaga did with long time Gonzaga guy, Mark Few.  Or what Pitt did with long time Pitt guy, Jamie Dixon.  It doesn't always work out (Guthridge at UNC...though he did go to a Final Four)....examples of success and failure going this route.

Dixon wasn't a long term Pitt guy.  He was a long term Ben Howland guy.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Comparing the MU situation to XU as it relates to hiring the particular assistants they did seems a bit disingenious.  Buzz was with MU for one year. 

Mack has been with Xavier forever.  He played at Xavier, he's been on Miller's staff for five years....he is Xavier.   In between he spent 3 years on Skip Prosser's staff at Wake Forest....yes, Skip Prosser....former head coach also at Xavier.

So to compare the two seems a bit off.  One is completely molded as a Xavier guy (player, alum, assistant coach for two excellent Xavier coaches) through and through.   

I'm sure Xavier thinks it is akin to what Gonzaga did with long time Gonzaga guy, Mark Few.  Or what Pitt did with long time Pitt guy, Jamie Dixon.  It doesn't always work out (Guthridge at UNC...though he did go to a Final Four)....examples of success and failure going this route.

One thing is certain, they got a Xavier man and that has to make them feel good.  Hopefully he's there for the long haul as they deserve the stability.

Chicos, I agree with you on a lot of stuff, but I have to call BS here.

Several vocal members of this board have criticized MU's hiring "process", not necessarily the results of the "process" (ie the candidate who received the job).

XU's main assistant had different qualifications than Buzz (I agree with you there), but the "process" was very similar (from what we know).

XU quickly promoted the top assistant who was recommended by the previous coach. No lengthy search. No public calls to Tony Bennett (UVA now), Chris Lowry, etc. etc. That sounds almost EXACTLY like MU.

Again, I know the actual candidate and the results are slightly different... but the "process" that everybody has been talking about for a year was VERY similar.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Xavier had a tailor made candidate on its bench. A former player. A graduate of the university. A long-time assistant coach who had been groomed for the role for years. We had nobody who fit that description even remotely.

Admitting the processes were similar is pretty damning for Marquette.

[MR.HAYWARD]

while you two (prn and Chicos) @$%#@& continue to argue about the "process" like you know anything, I will sit here and smile as the process produced a caoch who represents the University better than anyone I could have imagined, put the best team not led by DWade on the court in the last 25 years, and just landed the #1 rated recruitng class in the country.  But you two keep arguing about XU and it's relation to the MU process...love the ignore button

[4everwarriors]

Did Xavier have a big time donor calling the shots too?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

while you two (prn and Chicos) @$%#@& continue to argue about the "process" like you know anything, I will sit here and smile as the process produced a caoch who represents the University better than anyone I could have imagined, put the best team not led by DWade on the court in the last 25 years, and just landed the #1 rated recruitng class in the country.  But you two keep arguing about XU and it's relation to the MU process...love the ignore button

A. Buzz Williams eccentric behavior does not represent the university particularly well, if you ask me.
B. Buzz Williams did not "put the best team" on the court this year. He was the head coach who was handed an opportunity he didn't deserve.
C. Neither Chicos nor I started this thread or compared Xavier's process to MU's. Once again, it's people like 2002mualum who are making these comparisons. We're simply refuting them.
D. Did I miss the rankings that claimed we had the best recruiting class in the country? Where is that?

[Pakuni]

A. Buzz Williams eccentric behavior does not represent the university particularly well, if you ask me.

Could you please cite some examples of this "eccentric" behavior that doesn't represent the university well? There was a minor (and exaggerated) dustup with MacIlvaine and ....?
Are you more disturbed by his sweet tea consumption or his work with disabled children?

[Joe Thompson]

XU quickly promoted the top assistant who was recommended by the previous coach. No lengthy search. No public calls to Tony Bennett (UVA now), Chris Lowry, etc. etc. That sounds almost EXACTLY like MU.

Again, I know the actual candidate and the results are slightly different... but the "process" that everybody has been talking about for a year was VERY similar.

Actually, the bolded part is not entirely truthful. This wasn't a quick promotion. Look at what Jeff Goodman had to write about the hiring of Mack: http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2009/04/14/MACK_GETS_XAVIER_GIG. Read the second paragraph of his blog posting. Goodman's sources are as good as any college bball writer.

XU didn't rush the hire though most knew it would end up with an assistant promotion. MU rushed the hire though most had no clue it would end up with an assistant. IMO, its opposite of what you wrote: the results are the same; the process was indeed different.

[Pakuni]

Chicos, I agree with you on a lot of stuff, but I have to call BS here.

Several vocal members of this board have criticized MU's hiring "process", not necessarily the results of the "process" (ie the candidate who received the job).

XU's main assistant had different qualifications than Buzz (I agree with you there), but the "process" was very similar (from what we know).

XU quickly promoted the top assistant who was recommended by the previous coach. No lengthy search. No public calls to Tony Bennett (UVA now), Chris Lowry, etc. etc. That sounds almost EXACTLY like MU.

Again, I know the actual candidate and the results are slightly different... but the "process" that everybody has been talking about for a year was VERY similar.

+ A lot

With the exception of PRN, who has a distaste for most things Marquette (especially important things like nicknames), all we heard last year was that people weren't opposed to Buzz, they were opposed to the process. They wanted public courtships with bigger names, they wanted a lengthier search, they wanted a proven head coach, etc.

Well, now that Xavier followed a nearly identical process, suddenly the process isn't such a problem. No, now the problem is that MU's process landed a coach who just wasn't around long enough.
Which is it?
I'm getting old, so my memory ain't what it used to be, but I don't recall Chico's or anyone else saying "the process would have been fine had Buzz played for Marquette" or "the process would have been fine had Buzz been at MU a few years longer."

The whole process complaint, IMHO, is largely a ruse by those who didn't want Buzz as head coach, but didn't want to say that in case he turns out to be a great choice. This way, if he fails, they can say they were right all along. If he succeeds, they can say they never had a problem with Buzz, just the process. Fence sitting at its finest.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

C. Neither Chicos nor I started this thread or compared Xavier's process to MU's. Once again, it's people like 2002mualum who are making these comparisons. We're simply refuting them.

I'm simply pointing out that there was a lot of hand wringing (by some) about MU's PROCESS, not necessarily about the candidate that was chosen (that's a different argument that I'm not trying to start, I'll leave that to you and Hayward).

MU's process and XU's process were very similar. The starting points were a little different (the candidate's experience), but I don't remember anybody qualifying their criticism of MU's process (ie "it would be different if MU had an experienced assistant").

People just claimed it was a bad process and a bad way to do business.

Also, for the record, just because XU did it the same/similar way as MU, doesn't mean it's a good way to do business. Both teams could crash and burn.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Actually, the bolded part is not entirely truthful. This wasn't a quick promotion. Look at what Jeff Goodman had to write about the hiring of Mack: http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2009/04/14/MACK_GETS_XAVIER_GIG. Read the second paragraph of his blog posting. Goodman's sources are as good as any college bball writer.

XU didn't rush the hire though most knew it would end up with an assistant promotion. MU rushed the hire though most had no clue it would end up with an assistant. IMO, its opposite of what you wrote: the results are the same; the process was indeed different.

Touche.

Nice find.

I guess I'm just thinking about the public courtships that many MU fans expected/demanded. It didn't happen, and MU promoted an assistant.

In XU's case, I didn't really hear about any "name" candidates (although I don't follow the A10 that closely), and XU promoted an assistant (relatively) quickly.

The other interesting thing is that the article infers that XU quickly promoted Sean Miller, which might actually be similar to what MU did last year. (I don't know all of the history on the Miller hire, so I cannot accurately comment).

[Norm]

while you two (prn and Chicos) @$%#@& continue to argue about the "process" like you know anything, I will sit here and smile as the process produced a caoch who represents the University better than anyone I could have imagined, put the best team not led by DWade on the court in the last 25 years, and just landed the #1 rated recruitng class in the country.  But you two keep arguing about XU and it's relation to the MU process...love the ignore button

Mr. Hayward, I would argue that the 1993-94 version was better than the 2008-2009 version of Marquette basketball. That team made the Sweet 16, which this team did not. They were also a much more balanced team with good guards and good interior play. Both were good teams, but I'd rank the 93-94 version as a slight bit better.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Could you please cite some examples of this "eccentric" behavior that doesn't represent the university well? There was a minor (and exaggerated) dustup with MacIlvaine and ....?
Are you more disturbed by his sweet tea consumption or his work with disabled children?

Way to go! First I'm a racist and now I'm opposed to anybody who assists disabled children! You're on a roll.

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

Way to go! First I'm a racist and now I'm opposed to anybody who assists disabled children! You're on a roll.

Way to deflect away from answering the question. 

As much as you like to say you think Buzz is a nice guy and an upgrade over the previous coach, it's apparent you have some intense dislike for the man.  Whether you genuninely dislike the man because of his personality or dislike the man because of the process under which he was hired, it's clear to most all of us on this board.

We get it already.  The horse is already dead.  It's drained of blood.  It's not breathing anymore.  You're almost done dismembering it.  Buzz isn't going anywhere for the forseeable future.  So get used to it.     

[GGGG]

Way to deflect away from answering the question. 

That's all PRN does.  When I asked him twice about how JUCO players don't represent what MU stands for, he completely ignored me.

Don't look for substance...look for outlandish statements.

[New Era Warriors]

Yeah PRN, can you answer Pakuni's question? We are all waiting for your response...

[Pakuni]

Way to go! First I'm a racist and now I'm opposed to anybody who assists disabled children! You're on a roll.

I never called you a racist, nor have I ever implied it, hinted at it or even thought it. There are plenty of other less-than-flattering thoughts I've had about you, but that's not one of them.

Now answer the question, please. Educate us all on the many Buzz Williams behaviors that represent Marquette in a poor light.

[Joe Thompson]

Touche.

Nice find.

I guess I'm just thinking about the public courtships that many MU fans expected/demanded. It didn't happen, and MU promoted an assistant.

In XU's case, I didn't really hear about any "name" candidates (although I don't follow the A10 that closely), and XU promoted an assistant (relatively) quickly.

The other interesting thing is that the article infers that XU quickly promoted Sean Miller, which might actually be similar to what MU did last year. (I don't know all of the history on the Miller hire, so I cannot accurately comment).

Miller was a quick hire because Matta bolted in the middle of the night. If I remember correctly, Matta said he had no interest in the OSU job and that he was happy at Xavier only to take the OSU job six days later. Muskies were really caught flat-footed and handed the reins to Miller immediately.

In the end, the results are what matters. The only difference between the two is that the A-10 is a lot more forgiving then the Big East. In that sense, Mack will have more latitude for his mistakes.

Another angle to keep an eye on with people down on Buzz is they'll point to Mack being a born-and-raised Cincinnati guy who has had Xavier in his blood for 20 years; whereas Buzz is a little bit of a coaching mercenary having 12-13 jobs and only knowing MU for 10 months when he was hired. They'll tie that in with the "process".