Jerel McNeal

[Murffieus]

McNeal made two big mistakes yesterday----- shot too early in that last possession cycle and lost vision on Anderson, while watching the ball (a zone defense mentality) which resulted in Anderson's layup with time running out. Also as everyone can see he's taking the initiative too much. Last year in the last 5-6 games he did the same thing but a great deal more successfully.

The reason he is having more trouble this year is that defenses are containing better-----jamming the middle to keep him and WM out of the paint with the result that JM is forcing the finish many times off balance or settling for the trey. However where JM had his most success last year in his strong finish to the season was with the pullup jump shot which he has all but abandoned this year.

His one on one defense has been horrible-----he stays with his guy initially, but then quits on him giving him the alley to the hoop (very noticeable against Flynn in the CUSE game).

JM needs to let things more come to him and not try to force the finish off dribble penetration-----to rely more on the pullup instead since teams are jamming the middle to keep him out of the paint. Needs also to continue his defensive slide better and keep ahead of his man one on one forcing the dribbler to pullup rather than dropping his leg giving his man the alley to the hoop.

IMO, these adjustments are key to our NCAA fortunes. Even with the loss of DJ others have stepped up (Acker & Butler) and we are on a comparative score basis (SJU & Nova) more competitive now than before.
So there is hope!

[ecompt]

If you think Jerel is going to change now, Murff, you're more of an optimist than I am. He could very well win a game or two for us, or he could he cost us a game. Did you notice in the final minute yesterday that on a day when he couldn't hit much of anything he was the one who never let anyone else touch the ball the last two possessions?

[MR.HAYWARD]

Ecompt is right this guy has played like this for 4 years.  You know people gave DJ an absolute ton of Sh!t for a couple years about his decision making but like most college players he got smarter over time and in fact people across the board commented and complimented his ability to learn/grow.  With jerel it has simply never happened I have never seen an MU player in 30+ years that progressed less in the mnetal aspect of the game over 4years.  It is simply inexplicable and sad. 

The kid has hit some big shots no doubt but a terrible decison that goes in is still a terrible decison and is going to hurt you more often than not if you cannot learn from it.  The "big" shot he hit against Syracuse down 2 with less than aminute left was simply a stupid stupid shot yes it went in but it was simply stupid, as a coach i simply am beyond patience with those decions at this point.  This guy is an absolute coaches nightmare.  you need him to win but he can simply individually lose games for you.

many people were thrilled with Jerel's performance against Stnaford last year.  I was infuriated.  I saw a kid that missed 1 two point shot but was more than willing to go 3 of 12 from three point range...Three of 12!!!!  then on top of it all we have the last shot in regulation and he shoots a 30 footer with significant time on the clock!!

I simply cannot bear to watch it anymore it is so disappointing as a fan, his teeammates have got to be so frustrated with him.  At this point I am resigned that the Nova game and the Stanford game are simply yet another precursor of what Jerel will do at some point to end his career and that of Wes and Dwight.  And at this point I am looking forward to watching the careers of junior, Jeronne, etc.  and have high hopes that the era of the worst basketball IQ in the history of Marquette basketball will not be repeated anytime soon.  As i have said before I usually love the Mu players especially the better ones and really feel for them and hope for the best for them.  But with Jerel despite all of his records I have always had such a hard time rooting for him becuase of the mental mistakes and the fact that he makes the same ones over and over again and simply does not demonstrate any ability to learn from them.  Simply aplayer i will not miss and am now looking forward to him leaving.  he has in a great part ruined the joy of watching Wes and Dj for me for 4 years now, well at least 3 when he was a Freshman and part of his soph years I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

McNeal has become increasingly selfish as the season has progressed. The next time he passes the ball on a fast break will be the first. Teams know this and it's why he's been called for so many charges in those situations. I can recall several times when his selfishness has cost us in 3 on 1 situations when Matthews, Acker, or Butler were wide freaking open but Jerel was more focused on padding this point total then helping the team. You can see teammates shake their heads in those situations. It's one thing to be aggressive, it's another to be stupid.

[NavinRJohnson]

Jerel was more focused on padding this point total then helping the team.

I am glad to have you back, but this is a ridiculously misguided comment. Lacks trust in his teammates? Yeah, probably. More interested in padding his point total? Silly.

[AlumKCof93]

I can't help but wonder if McNeals selfishness yesterday impacts the chemistry of the team.  The team played their hearts out only to see McNeal take it all upon himself at the end as though he were Jordan.  If you're Hayward, Matthews, Butler, how can you not be pissed?

[muhoops1]

Exactly.  I only saw the 2nd half, but MU's comeback took place because of players like Acker, Butler and Hayward.  With the exception of a made three by McNeal he didn't dominate the offense.  But during crunch time he acts like he is Kobe.  I understand that he may be our best option on O.  However, that doesn't excuse a total lack of judgement on his part.  He is a good player, but needs to be called out on his short comings.  I have no problem with either of his last two shots.  It is simply "when" they occured that is troublesome. 

[CTWarrior]

PRN, McNeal has broken that habit of not giving up the rock on the break.  I noticed it in late January or early February.  Since James went down it seems like we never get those breakouts anymore.  I don't know if it's because James is hurt or we're playing better teams or what, but we haven't gotten nearly as many breakouts as we used to before our recent slump.

We can pile on McNeal all we want, but he was playing great basketball right up until DJ's injury.  Whether he's strugglng simply because he's in a shooting slump, or the defense is keyed on him more, or because he's having to expend more effort on defense, or because he's not getting the ball against a scrambling defense courtesy of James, or because he feels like he has to carry the team without James is unkown to me.  It's probably some combination of those things.

The rest of the team is starting to figure out how to make it work without DJ.  Acker is a weak defender against any guard with decent size and he lack's DJ's strength and penetration ability, but you can see he is making a concerted effort to penetrate more, he's looking for people in the lane and not just passing the ball around the perimeter so much, he's hitting the open J and just playing with more confidence in general.  He is not close to DJ but he's playing well enough for us to win against all but the very best of opponents.  Butler has stopped charging when going to the basket, and has become a force.

If McNeal gets on board we can still be a dangerous team.  Unfortunately, we have played ourselves down to where we are likely a 7 or 8 seed, which means we will have a dogfight on our hands in round 1, and, should we survive that, will have to play an elite team in round 2.  Going to be very, very tough for this team to make a run.  Yesterday's loss was huge, because we need that 6 seed to have any real hope of a sweet 16 run.

[MR.HAYWARD]

I will defend Jerel is the sense that i do not think he is being "selfish" on a conscious basis.  he is not thinking "i need to get these (or my) points".  I do not think that is the case at all.  I think he is a warrior and wants to win so badly that he trys to do do to much becuase he beleives he is the best option. he is right he is thebest option, but only in the framwork of a team.  he is not the best option going 1 on 5 and while he might be the best option to make that drive he has to have learned over 4 years that if three guys are there that you need to give up the rock becuase in that slpit second you are not the best option. 

You have to learn over 4 years thatscore and clock mnagament means that even though you are the best player that an NBA 3 zero passes into the possesion with 15 seconds left on the shot clock and 50 seconds left int he game is not the shot we want even if you have the utmost faith in your ability to hit that shot.

Again my point is i dont think he is consciously making the deciosn to be selfish but his supreme confidence in himself and his huge desire to win, hurts him, huirt the teams and makes him look selfish.  DJ was the same way but he learned to make better deciosns and we were the better team for it.  Sadly Jerel never learned those things.  truly sad that a player with so much physical ability can get so caught up in the battle that his mental part of the game causes him to be demmed selfish and lose so many games he should win.  The mental part is so huge and unfortunatley we have had that reinforced by him time after time.   i said it before in 30+ years of following Mu very very closely the worst basketball IQ I have ever seen, and it is austounding that it seems to have not improved one iota in 4 years.  we was the worst player on the court for two games in new york and that had nothing to do with his physical tools, it was purely due to his mental approach.

[wildbill sb]

Amen, brother.  Oh, what might have been.

[oneilera]

I will take Rel over James any day of the week. I believe you are oblivious to some history of the two.

[Lighthouse 84]

 I understand that he may be our best option on O. 

Actually, in that situation, I'd much rather see Wes or Jimmy as the best option on O.  Wes was 9-10 and Jimmy 13-16 from the line.  Give one of them the ball in the paint and either get a bucket or a foul.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Al used to say "if my all-american gets double teamed and  does not share the ball we will lose" 

Simple game.  My coach used to say and I use it with my kids too.  " I cannot make you work hard and i cannot make you think" ..."if you cannot do those two thing , you cannot play for me"

[Schoolyard]

As I have thought about the game yesterday and how Jerel has played lately, and all I am hoping for is for Buzz to be able to step in and ask Jerel to allow for the game to come to him in the same way he did with DJ this year.  I am not asking Jerel to lead the team in assists, but Jerel if he allowed for others to get the ball once in a while allowing them to score, it will work in his favor and may open things up for him.   

[Blackhat]

I've seen a lot of guys defense slip this year, some more than others.  This leads me to believe it's a coaching problem/motivational problem.   McNeal has had a far too casual approach on the defensive end but our d on the whole this year is worse.   

[Murffieus]

Buzz should never have canned that motion offense he started the season with where everyone touched the ball on every possession (lots of passing the BB and minimum dribbling)-------it's the change to the perimeter offense that has given JM the license to force the issue------why Buzz changed what was a very sound offense against a man to man defense in favor of "every man for himself BB", I'll never know.

[Pardner]

Buzz should never have canned that motion offense he started the season with where everyone touched the ball on every possession (lots of passing the BB and minimum dribbling)-------it's the change to the perimeter offense that has given JM the license to force the issue------why Buzz changed what was a very sound offense against a man to man defense in favor of "every man for himself BB", I'll never know.

Or maybe the BE teams adjusted and jumped us on the perimeter like Nova did the other night because our lack of inside game?  In the BE:

• MU 5th in scoring and eFG%
• But 2nd in PPG (MU is very efficient)
• 3rd in Free throw rate
• 3rd in Assist to turnover ratio
• 15th in rebounding per game

Conclusion, Buzz's offense is very efficient in the BE...he geared it to his talent: getting to looks and to the line with our quickness and ball movement.  Yet, we don't have the inside game to run the motion offense you want (and what Buzz ran earlier).  Look who Buzz recruited for next year and you should get your wish as his talent will match what you want to do.  This year, we need to go to Zar and Butler more as primaries (see second half of Nova after adjustments...Zar was MIA in the 1st within MU's offense vs. Nova, with one first half FG attempt).  It was a whole new team in the 2nd half...with an emphasis on word team.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east/team_stats?season=2008-2009#possessions

[ecompt]

+1, pardner
Murff, Buzz didn't scrap his offense. We're running the same plays, the good teams we're playing now are defending us better. We got back in the game Thursday by dishing and driving, and everyone was touching the ball. Until the final two possessions, that is.

[mu03eng]

I think there is a point that Buzz brought up in his post game comments after 'Nova, which is very important and people are overlooking.  This team has played 6 games and had 5 practices since DJ went down with injury.  That is not a lot of practice time to figure out how to play without James.  I hate the loss and I hate the way Rel lost it, but I think in the end this could be an OUTSTANDING thing for us.  We get more time to practice and understand the game without DJ, and they can coach up Rel about the mistakes in the last minute.  I am actually really confident in this team still being able to make a hell of a run in the dance.  Plus because of so many top teams being BEast teams should we get a 7 I think we have a really great chance to at least make the Sweet 16.

[PE8983]

I don't think that the NCAA tournament is the time you learn to start to win games.  Bottom line - we have not won a game against a decent opponent with DJ out.

[mviale]

PRN, McNeal has broken that habit of not giving up the rock on the break.  I noticed it in late January or early February.  Since James went down it seems like we never get those breakouts anymore.  I don't know if it's because James is hurt or we're playing better teams or what, but we haven't gotten nearly as many breakouts as we used to before our recent slump.

We can pile on McNeal all we want, but he was playing great basketball right up until DJ's injury.  Whether he's strugglng simply because he's in a shooting slump, or the defense is keyed on him more, or because he's having to expend more effort on defense, or because he's not getting the ball against a scrambling defense courtesy of James, or because he feels like he has to carry the team without James is unkown to me.  It's probably some combination of those things.

The rest of the team is starting to figure out how to make it work without DJ.  Acker is a weak defender against any guard with decent size and he lack's DJ's strength and penetration ability, but you can see he is making a concerted effort to penetrate more, he's looking for people in the lane and not just passing the ball around the perimeter so much, he's hitting the open J and just playing with more confidence in general.  He is not close to DJ but he's playing well enough for us to win against all but the very best of opponents.  Butler has stopped charging when going to the basket, and has become a force.

If McNeal gets on board we can still be a dangerous team.  Unfortunately, we have played ourselves down to where we are likely a 7 or 8 seed, which means we will have a dogfight on our hands in round 1, and, should we survive that, will have to play an elite team in round 2.  Going to be very, very tough for this team to make a run.  Yesterday's loss was huge, because we need that 6 seed to have any real hope of a sweet 16 run.

+1 - good summation on post DJ situation for JM.  Totally different ball game

[Murffieus]

Or maybe the BE teams adjusted and jumped us on the perimeter like Nova did the other night because our lack of inside game?  In the BE:

• MU 5th in scoring and eFG%
• But 2nd in PPG (MU is very efficient)
• 3rd in Free throw rate
• 3rd in Assist to turnover ratio
• 15th in rebounding per game

Conclusion, Buzz's offense is very efficient in the BE...he geared it to his talent: getting to looks and to the line with our quickness and ball movement.  Yet, we don't have the inside game to run the motion offense you want (and what Buzz ran earlier).  Look who Buzz recruited for next year and you should get your wish as his talent will match what you want to do.  This year, we need to go to Zar and Butler more as primaries (see second half of Nova after adjustments...Zar was MIA in the 1st within MU's offense vs. Nova, with one first half FG attempt).  It was a whole new team in the 2nd half...with an emphasis on word team.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east/team_stats?season=2008-2009#possessions

Pardner----you are looking at things to a large degree as they are------not as they could have been-----plus my point is that we don't have the right offense to take on the better teams who jam the middle on us-----you're stats are diluted-----what are the stats for the 3-8 record games against top 100 RPI teams? Any offense can work if you have talent against the lessor teams.

I do like Buzz's offense against a zone, which allows more passing and high post stuff than previously, which also aids your efficiency stats.

True we don't have the quality postup down low to necessarily fit Buzz's original offense although I think Burke could have been developed over the years to be at least a serviceable low postup.

Buzz's original offense did include an inside game however----it was the weakside wide post stuff within the original with Hayward, McNeal, and Mathews, which was very productive early on and would get nothing but better with reps. Better/easier to take it to the hoop from 8 feet outside the lane than from the perimeter.

Buzz's original offense involved everyone touching the ball in a possession sequence----some would touch twice-----wouldn't therefore give anyone a license to take the game over by himself as the weave, pick, handoff east/west perimeter offense currently allows McNeal.

I heard that Buzz was talked into changing the offense by the prominent/veteran team members-----appparently Buzz thought he had to make the change to have them "buy in"!

[Pardner]

Murf--
Let's contain the Top100 to the BE since that is when you claim the changes were made. 

• MU PPG in BE:  77
• MU PPG in the six Top 20 BE losses (with 5 teams in Top 10, and SU in BET champ.):  76

Conincidentally, five of those six BE losses came with our star PG out who is critical to run the paint touch offense ...but who is a player whose loss you claim had no impact on MU's performance.  Thus, it looks like Buzz's offensive system, and any adjustments since he lost a four year floor general-- whereever the suggestions came from--have worked.  And, if opponents are jumping us on the perimeter with DJ out, Buzz would be charged with malpractice if he didn't make adjustments as 99.9% of us think the loss of DJ matters a lot.

In the end, Pomeroy has MU's offense ranked 8th in the country.  While I love Burke as a role player, he won't make us the #1 offense.  If we play Buzz's team offense like we did in the 2nd half at Nova for 19 minutes, MU will be fine.

Now back to those losses to bigger frontline and as quick or quicker backcourt Top 20 teams, let's look to the defense.   Mu is 252th on 2FG% defense and 217th against treys.  Our defense is built outside-in due to our personnel.  And that is how these bigger and as quick teams have beaten us.  Our offensive efficiency is designed to keep us in the game.  I see no evidence that it has not continued to do so after the adjustments other than time management at the ends of games (again--DJ).

If you have some Murf stats to debunk these "diluted stats", please share.   


http://kenpom.com/team.php?y=2009&team=Marquette

[Murffieus]

Pardner----The test of a half court offense isn't in total points scored (putbacks, transition points aside)----it's determined by the quality of shots garnered. In the last 5 BE games lost against quality competition we shot an horrendous 37.4 % (even less if you take away breakaways & putbacks not designed off the half court offense)-----that sets the game back 50 years as that is the percentage BB teams used to shoot 50 years ago.

As i say, against lower level talent just about any offense will work, but the real challenge/test of a half court offense is how well does that offense stand up to higher level competion. 37% shooting says Buzz's offense  #2 didn't put our guys in the best position to get good shots----also gave McNeal a license to go off by himself, which would have been very difficult under Buzz offense #1.

As far as DJ is concerned, his loss didn't hurt us at all on offense as Acker stepped up with a 3-1 assist to TO ratio-----and Butler got more mpg and more than picked up DJ's rebounds (incl points on putbacks)-----plus much better Ft shooting (we didn't miss DJ's 46% FT shooting and 28% trey shooting)----defense may be a different story however-----but this discussion is offense.

Being a student of the game, I can't tell you how much I liked the Buzz offense #1----and he made a mistake by throwing it under the bus. McNeal, Mathews, and Lazar are naturals for the wide post----Lazar continued some wide postup stuff , but the others got nothing after around the first of the year. The result was too much dribble and not enough passing-----maybe you heard Pitino's comments about what passing means to offense in the past few days.

[Pardner]

Murf--
Maybe our offensive performance had to do with playing the top defenses in the nation as I stated vs. Buzz's system.  With DJ out and our small PG replacement, they are jumping our perimeter.  Simply, we don't have the personnel to play the offense you want--see next year.  We are 1-6 with DJ out...and could have won three of those games with DJ's game management.  To state DJ didn't have an impact on offense is foolish.  DJ's assist percentage was 31%--Mo can't touch that.  DJ absolutely controlled Buzz's offense that you loved.  Yes, Buzz had to make changes in MU's offense in favor of his senior AA once DJ went down.  It is obvious MU isn't as efficient with Jerel running the offense...but it is due to his poor decisions vs. Buzz's system. 

Nothing wrong with Buzz's system or changes...it is putting the same amount of points on the board with the limited talent he has.  Worry about his defense.