Len Elmore says we are still a "4 or 5" seed

[AlumKCof93]

This is not the best conference ever.  Its very strong at the top with Pitt and Uconn legitimate title contenders with Lville perhaps one as well,  The second tier of MU, Nova and Syracuse is also good and West Virginia is looking strong as well.  That right there is a very strong conference, but that's only 7 teams out of 16. 

There's been a lot of bad basketball played in the first 2 rounds of the BET.  If the games were replayed, it would be hard to see which ones would have a different outcome.  The bottom half of the league just isn't very strong and that includes ND and Gtown.

[BrewCity83]

Where would Memphis finish in the BE?

Where would the #2 and 3 teams from the ACC, Big 10 and Big 12 finish in the BE?

Probably somewhere in the 4-9 range in my opinion.

[muwarrior87]

Per Dickie V, Memphis would finish around 7th. Use that as a barometer.

[Hards Alumni]

what criteria would you use to measure the 'best conference ever' then?

every team going undefeated going into conference play, playing top 50 opponents the whole way... and then everyone beats up on each other so every team has a .500 record... and then all 16 teams make the sweet 16?

I live in reality.

name a better conference in a year, and we can actually have a legitimate discussion.

[MU B2002]

The Big Ten, every year.

[Coleman]

Hards I have to disagree. The top half of the Big East is really good (I'll include WVU and Providence in that discussion so we get the number of teams to an even 8...enough for a conference to stand on its own). If those top 8 were a conference...it would hands down be the best in nation and probably best ever. But you can't ignore the bottom half. After Providence there is a HUGE drop-off.

Might be the best 8 teams ever in the same conference in a given year. But top to bottom, you can't say its the best entire conference ever.

Memphis would finish 4th or 5th...right around us. I think the ACC teams like Duke, Wake, and UNC would all be in title contention. Big East is better than the ACC this year (we are the best conference in the country, just not the best conference ever). Top 3 of ACC and top 3 of Big East are pretty even though.

[BrewCity83]

I agree about UNC, but I don't think Duke or Wake would be any higher than 4th and maybe as low as 7th in the BE.

[Hards Alumni]

ok, then to summarize my previous post.

SHOW ME A BETTER ONE.

[Coleman]

I know there were years in the 1980s when the (much smaller) Big East would get 3 teams into the Final Four, and I think there was even a year when it was an all-Big East championship game. If your argument is based on the top teams in the conference I think you would have to argue the conference was stronger in those years, when it had fewer teams. Of course, maybe that will happen this year. If you get 3 teams into the Final Four and 2 Big East teams squaring off against one another for the National Championship this year, you would have a better argument.

[Hards Alumni]

actually, since you have no actual data, my argument still stands.

don't make a claim if you can't back it up with something more than, "I think" or "probably"

again, name a year with something to back it up and I will gladly drop the topic and admit I was wrong.

[Coleman]

1984-85 Big East. Villanova, St. John's, and Georgetown all in the Final Four. Nova over G-town in the championship. Happy?

[NavinRJohnson]

that mean those two have all 4 games today?

No, they'll still split the sessions today, but just Elmore/Shulman Friday and Saturday...I think.

[Hards Alumni]

1984-85 Big East. Villanova, St. John's, and Georgetown all in the Final Four. Nova over G-town in the championship. Happy?

not really, since that feat is absolutely replicable by this year's Big East... because the tourney isn't over yet.

always have some wiggle room 

[BrewCity83]

How strong were teams 4-5-6-7-8 in 1984-85?  How many went to the Sweet 16?

[Hards Alumni]

haha that was going to be my next question as well... since that was what he was using as his criteria earlier. 

[The Man in Gold]

actually, since you have no actual data, my argument still stands.

don't make a claim if you can't back it up with something more than, "I think" or "probably"

again, name a year with something to back it up and I will gladly drop the topic and admit I was wrong.

I laugh at your demand for facts on the internet.

[Coleman]

Apples and Oranges fellas. Smaller conference. It will be impressive if the Big East sends 3 teams to the Final Four and 2 to the championship this year with 16 teams. Doing it with 9 is completely different. But here you go.

St. John's       15-1  .938  31-4   .886  NCAA #1  seed 4-1  Final Four
Georgetown       14-2  .875  35-3   .921  NCAA #1  seed 5-1  2nd Place
Syracuse          9-7  .563  22-9   .710  NCAA #7  seed 1-1
Villanova         9-7  .563  25-10  .714  NCAA #8  seed 6-0  National Champs
Pittsburgh        8-8  .500  17-12  .586  NCAA #12 seed 0-1
Boston College    7-9  .438  20-11  .645  NCAA #11 seed 2-1  Sweet Sixteen
Connecticut       6-10 .375  13-15  .464
Providence        3-13 .188  11-20  .355
Seton Hall        1-15 .063  10-18  .357

Yes, that's correct. 6 out of 9 teams in the NCAAs.

http://www.sportsstats.com/bball/otherconfs/BigEast/standings/1985


Is this the part where you drop the topic and admit you were wrong? 

[BrewCity83]

Apples and Oranges fellas. Smaller conference. It will be impressive if the Big East sends 3 teams to the Final Four and 2 to the championship this year with 16 teams. Doing it with 9 is completely different. But here you go.

St. John's       15-1  .938  31-4   .886  NCAA #1  seed 4-1  Final Four
Georgetown       14-2  .875  35-3   .921  NCAA #1  seed 5-1  2nd Place
Syracuse          9-7  .563  22-9   .710  NCAA #7  seed 1-1
Villanova         9-7  .563  25-10  .714  NCAA #8  seed 6-0  National Champs
Pittsburgh        8-8  .500  17-12  .586  NCAA #12 seed 0-1
Boston College    7-9  .438  20-11  .645  NCAA #11 seed 2-1  Sweet Sixteen
Connecticut       6-10 .375  13-15  .464
Providence        3-13 .188  11-20  .355
Seton Hall        1-15 .063  10-18  .357

Yes, that's correct. 6 out of 9 teams in the NCAAs.

http://www.sportsstats.com/bball/otherconfs/BigEast/standings/1985


Is this the part where you drop the topic and admit you were wrong? 

This is the part when I ask "How many of the four #1 seeds in 1985 came from the Big East?  Three?  I didn't think so.  And how many were #3 seeds?

[Coleman]

7/16 in 2009 (ACC and Big 10 also got 7)

6/9 in 1985. You do the math (hint...divide the little number by the big number)

We'll see how the tournament plays out...but even if UConn, and Pitt and 'ville go all the way to the Final Four...I don't think you can argue this year was BETTER than 1985...maybe just as good.

[BrewCity83]

I will argue that 5 teams seeded 3 or better (5 of the top 12 teams in the NCAAs) and 7 teams seeded 7 or better (7 of the top 28 in the NCAAs) is better than the 6 teams from 1985, two of which barely made it in (11 and 12 seeds).  Granted, they could all lay eggs in this year's tourney and I will shut up.   But I don't think that's gonna happen.

[Hards Alumni]

I never disappear when I am wrong... in fact, I will tell you.

at this point, Brew and I have valid points.

looking at those records pre tourney in the 9 team BE, you can, with a straight face, say that conference was better?

okay, I just disagree

[Coleman]

Maybe we are splitting hairs here...