Riley to Syracuse

[Blackhat]

Not good.  Part of the appeal of Buzz is he would be able to close on prospects like Dashonte, not Liam Mc, Otule types.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What makes you think they won't be the next Burke, Hazel, Mbakwe trio. 

Look, I said this with Crean; it is hard to get quality/highly rated bigs. That is why Crean, and so far Buzz, have had to get projects or go after guys with questionable character.

You mean you can't just go down to the corner Big Man store and order them up?  I was certain that's all you had to do after reading so many posts on this board over the years.  They're made to order.   

[MUSF]

You mean you can't just go down to the corner Big Man store and order them up?  I was certain that's all you had to do after reading so many posts on this board over the years.  They're made to order.   

Yeah, if it weren't for Crean, guys like Riley would be beating down the door to come to MU.

The harsh reality, that the Crean haters will never admit, is that there just aren't that many elite big men out there and the ones that do exist don't typically end up at schools like MU.

[77ncaachamps]

Will Riley now be at the MU-Cuse game?

[ATWizJr]

I'll be down on Buzz for not being able to recruit a big man after Otule, McMorrow, and Roseboro turn out to be point guards and after Buzz has had as many years to recruit a "big" at MU as his predecessor.

As for Riley, good luck, God bless and enjoy January for the next 4 years.  You picked the wrong side of the Great Lakes, kid.

[rugbydrummer]

I'll be down on Buzz for not being able to recruit a big man after Otule, McMorrow, and Roseboro turn out to be point guards and after Buzz has had as many years to recruit a "big" at MU as his predecessor.

As for Riley, good luck, God bless and enjoy January for the next 4 years.  You picked the wrong side of the Great Lakes, kid.

Arguably the Mason-Dixon line too ... not that the Big East exists in that latitude

[rocky_warrior]

You mean you can't just go down to the corner Big Man store and order them up?  I was certain that's all you had to do after reading so many posts on this board over the years.  They're made to order.   

To be fair, at least Buzz has signed 3 guys that are over 6'8" and will be eligible to play next year.  Even if Mbakwe had stayed, Otule was the only recruit eligible for that stat since Ooze signed.  2 tall guys in 5 years is NOT enough - even if you have to take projects.

[MUSF]

To be fair, at least Buzz has signed 3 guys that are over 6'8" and will be eligible to play next year.  Even if Mbakwe had stayed, Otule was the only recruit eligible for that stat since Ooze signed.  2 tall guys in 5 years is NOT enough - even if you have to take projects.

Fair enough. However, I believe that Crean made a decision to go after the best players, regardless of position, once he lost out on the top tier bigs. Your opinion is that Crean should have taken some 6'10 projects just to get some size on the floor. I think he thought he could compete with talent and athletes at the guard and wing positions and would rather take his chances with the likes of DJ, Wesley, Jerel, and Lazar than take a risk on some projects. Say what you will about that philosophy but it kept us competitive in the best conference in America and made us tourney regulars, something many other MU coaches could not accomplish.

Time will tell with Buzz. There is no doubt that he has some recruiting chops but landing top tier bigs is not as simple as some would make it seem.  I think Buzz will struggle in that respect just like many of his peers.

BTW how is Crean doing with the bigs at IU? Time will also tell if the problem was solely Crean's recruiting abilities or the totality of circumstances while he was at MU.  This issue works both ways.  If Crean starts pulling elite big men at IU, some people here will have to change their tune.

[The Lens]

You mean you can't just go down to the corner Big Man store and order them up?  I was certain that's all you had to do after reading so many posts on this board over the years.  They're made to order.   

Gee what will us TC haters have to hang our hat on now?

Only Lazar for the Big 3?
The Brandon Bell Years?
His Tan?
His incredibly wuss-ified fear of going against Izzo?
His Tie?
Niv?
Banners?
Mike Maddux?
How he stopped recruiting post Dom?
How his wife read the message boards more than Chicos. 4ever, DKCL, Hilltopper, & Rocky combined?
How he had Dodds & IWB at Hello, but wasn't man enough to say goodbye?
How Fr. Wild learned of his leaving via ESPN News?
How TC will be run out of town in 5 years b/c he can't win the big one?

[nyg]

Very disappointing, almost like the Michael Snaer loss, so close yet....couldn't close.

Darius Smith being chased by the big boys now, who knows how that will end up.

Jamil Wilson makes his decision Sunday, I'm betting on Mich. State, but one can never tell. I know, Texas, Oregon or MSU, but one can wish.

If someone does leave the program and they don't obtain commitment from Smith or Wilson, then bank it for 2010.   

[ecompt]

I'd be willing to bet right now Riley doesn't spend four years at SU.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Gee what will us TC haters have to hang our hat on now?

Only Lazar for the Big 3?
The Brandon Bell Years?
His Tan?
His incredibly wuss-ified fear of going against Izzo?
His Tie?
Niv?
Banners?
Mike Maddux?
How he stopped recruiting post Dom?
How his wife read the message boards more than Chicos. 4ever, DKCL, Hilltopper, & Rocky combined?
How he had Dodds & IWB at Hello, but wasn't man enough to say goodbye?
How Fr. Wild learned of his leaving via ESPN News?
How TC will be run out of town in 5 years b/c he can't win the big one?

There will be a list just as long for Buzz if he is here for 9 years.

It's the nature of coaching (and the internet).

Oh, and for the record, Buzz is struggling to land a top tier big man because there just aren't many around. Crean couldn't land one because he's a douche.

[muwarrior69]

If I was a recruit I would pick the school with the open scholarship, not the one where I would be the one over the limit and someone else on the team has to go. It just might be that simple. We don't need 7 footers to win (Stanford), just good players who can tough it out. Which was last team that had a 7 foot starter to win the NCAA?

[commonbondcoach]

For what it is worth - Riley's decision has barely even made the news / message boards in Michigan.  I saw one post each on two boards with no replies.  One post read as follows:

Da'Shonte Riley an Orangeman 9 Hours, 38 Minutes ago   
Learn to love the game, big fella, and rewards shall ye reap!

Trust me - he's a project.  Not so much physically / skill-wise but mentally.  I'd have to think a mntal project is harder to nurture along than a physical / skill-wise project

[nola03]

Well other than McMorrow, Clark and Roseboro

Brings the "big man" discussion back to light: what defines a "big"? Blake Griffin is a big and he's only 6'7'' 1/2. Jeff Adrien is a big and he's only 6'7''. Is Harangody a big?

At this point, Roseboro looks like a classic soft touch 4 man and Clark is more the athletic 4 man like a Shawn Taggert at Memphis. Neither would be the "big man" that MU fans have craved for six years.

[kmwtrucks]

Blake Griffin is bigger than 6-7 1/2, Maybe in bare feet which would make him, 6-9 in shoes which is what most people measure with.

[bma725]

At this point, Roseboro looks like a classic soft touch 4 man and Clark is more the athletic 4 man like a Shawn Taggert at Memphis. Neither would be the "big man" that MU fans have craved for six years.

The problem is that the "big man" that MU fans have craved for years is a rare creature, getting more and more so by the day.  There just aren't many classic back to the basket big men anymore.  The game has changed to the point where most guys that size just don't want to put up with the constant banging down low.

So what you end up with as back to the basket guys, unless you are one of the truly elite, is project type guys that aren't athletic enough to be face up 4 men, and aren't skilled enough to be a one and done NBA type.

[rocky_warrior]

Time will tell with Buzz. There is no doubt that he has some recruiting chops but landing top tier bigs is not as simple as some would make it seem.  I think Buzz will struggle in that respect just like many of his peers.

We agree on that point.   4 and 5 star bigs don't grow on trees (wither that, or there's only a single tree they grwo from...) I can also (realistically) admit that Crean picked up guys based on a possible need.  For instance, Acker was brought in to protect against DJ leaving.  Mid size projects (Burke, Hazel) were taken and didn't work out great.  In general, i thought Crean was a good recruiter, though I would have preferred a little more height.

Other than the tall guys, I'm also excited about E Williams, and Maymon.  They sound like athletic guys WITH proven hoops ability.  If they can play anything like Hayward, I'll be a happy MU fan.

Anyhow, I think I'm causing thread drift.  I'll stop.

[TJ]

Arguably the Mason-Dixon line too ... not that the Big East exists in that latitude

How exactly would that argument go?

[MR.HAYWARD]

Dont recall people complaining that Crean was not bringing in 4 or 5 star bigs...but Chicos of course will remmeber it that way.  People wew complaining that we had 6'6 and 6'7 as our returning bigs this year and apart from ooze we have signed noone over 6'8 in years.  most people are intelligent to know you are not goin to sign 1 and doners at the 5 and you need to bring in a big every year so he can matriculate and be ready to perform as a junior.  Luckily Buzz like Bo ryan and others know this is how you have good big men to develop them.  Crean never got that or never had the patinece either way i could care less he is IU's problem.  Since buzz arrived in milwaukke we have signed otule, mcmorrow, roseboro, clark,  if one or two of these guys develop we will be in good shape also thro in Mymon who can play the 4, heck wehn is the last itmne we had a true 4?!! let alone a 5.  to defend Crean is retarded.

[Nukem2]

Riley's mind was made up when he visited Syracuse per Zag's blog today.  Only visited MU to please his mother.  Much ado about nothing.

[bma725]

For those who say Crean can't recruit big men, answer me these questions:

#1. Why is it that within weeks of his going to IU, he was able to land his #1 big man target for 2009....the very same player that refused to commit to Crean while he was at MU, and was slowly eliminating MU from the process(Bobby Capobianco)?

#2. For those who say he only gets short projects, how is that he was able to get one 6'10 player and one 7-footer in his first two IU classes?

Could it be that getting a big man to come to Marquette is a he** of a lot harder than you think, and maybe just maybe the guys he got are the only ones that actually wanted to come here?

[NotAnAlum]

Mr Hayward-
I sure hope Buzz doesn't develop bigs like Bo Ryan.
Look at what Bo has had to work with.  Butch - A McD All American and Stiemsma and Gavinski 2 top 50 recruits.
Bo is like MUs situation in reverse
While we have to make due with virtual unknown and try to turn them into serviceable centers He takes highly regarded centers and turns them into virtual unknowns.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

For those who say Crean can't recruit big men, answer me these questions:

#1. Why is it that within weeks of his going to IU, he was able to land his #1 big man target for 2009....the very same player that refused to commit to Crean while he was at MU, and was slowly eliminating MU from the process(Bobby Capobianco)?

#2. For those who say he only gets short projects, how is that he was able to get one 6'10 player and one 7-footer in his first two IU classes?

Could it be that getting a big man to come to Marquette is a he** of a lot harder than you think, and maybe just maybe the guys he got are the only ones that actually wanted to come here?

Please do not try to use facts to justify anything Tom Crean has done. You're pro-Crean bias is truly sickening.

[rocky_warrior]

Could it be that getting a big man to come to Marquette is a he** of a lot harder than you think, and maybe just maybe the guys he got are the only ones that actually wanted to come here?

Honestly, I know Crean recruited bigs.  But he only landed 2 in the past 7 years.

I don't completely disagree with you, and while they may not all be centers, Buzz has already signed 3 guys over 6'8" in about 10 months.  So, is Buzz just that much better at recruiting?