How Big of a Rivalry is MU/ND really?

[HoopsMalone]

As a more recent MU grad, it seems like the generation that watched Al coach against Digger is more into the MU v. Notre Dame rivalry than the people at school now.  When I was there, it was a little bit more special than the average Big East game because typically we all know someone at Notre Dame, whereas very few of us have buddies at Syracuse, UConn, or South Florida to call up and talk about the game.  However, I also felt like the students were most excited to play Louisville or Pitt.  Wisconsin was exciting on the day of the game, but it seems like the Badger fans dwell on their win or loss against us much more than Marquette fans do.

I was a pretty big fan, and it just did not seem like a huge rivalry for me.  Being from Chicago, I know that half of the Irish Catholic kids from Chicago also applied to ND and there is a love/hate relationship no matter who you are in Chicago when Notre Dame comes up. 

I am curious if the rivalry is just because both teams are in the same conference and both are good (which would be the same as if South Florida was ranked where ND is) or were the games in the 70s and 80s heated games producing a good rivalry?

[StillAWarrior]

I am curious if the rivalry is just because both teams are in the same conference and both are good (which would be the same as if South Florida was ranked where ND is) or were the games in the 70s and 80s heated games producing a good rivalry?

From 87-91 I think ND really stood out as the biggest rivalry.  We hated Digger and always circled the game on the calendar.  We only beat ND once when I was at Marquette, and it was a Saturday morning game just before finals.  It was great.

By the way, I still hate Digger.  What the hell is the deal with the matching tie and highlighter?  There were a lot of rumors about Digger when I was at Marquette.  One was that Digger called O'Neil when he got the job and made a comment along the lines of, "congratulations, you just inhereted the worst fans in the country."  Another was that for a while Digger refused to play Marquette in Milwaukee except when the students were on Christmas break because we were so bad (someone had poured beer on him or something).  The one time we did beat them he had agreed to play during school, as long as the game was in the morning -- I think we started at 11:00 a.m -- so we wouldn't be drunk.  If that was the reason for the early start time, he underestimated our resolve.  We were at the Gym at 7:00.

[ecompt]

Digger was and has been a complete horse's ass since he stabbed Fordham in the back back in 1971. He had something like 14 NBA players while at Notre Dame and made ONE Final Four. An absolute joke as a coach.

[boyonthedock]

As a current student from the chicago area, I hate notre dame with an intense burning passion. I get this same feeling from people around campus as well. I mean, its really hard not to hate harangody, first of all. Just look at him. And Mike Brey's god awful t-shirt sport coat combo with that slicked back hair. He just feels evil. The games have been tight, except that exhilirating destruction at home last year, and entertaining. THey've been just about as good as MU has the last couple of years, so there's that to help it have a rivalry feel.

But personally, I really hate the team because everyone from my high school that I despised or thought was a jerk ended up going to notre dame. And all the kids I hated at MU my frosh/soph years would be the ones cheering loudly in the dorms for notre dame football, back when they weren't as terrible. Maybe i am just a misanthrope, which is probably the case, but something about notre dame, its students and fans makes me hate them. It's mostly a smugness, entitlement, and obliviousness. And it just oozes out. I mean, my grandpa went to notre dame and taught there, and hes the only member of my family i dont like.

BUt on campus, notre dame is a big game. People hate them, and love to see em lose. And I personally did not know about any sort of history, i just knew they were evil and must be destroyed. But Pitino and louisville and devendorf at syracuse run distant in my top 3 hated big east rivals. Pitt and Uconn aren't very hateable, but they're good teams so its exciting

[wildbill sb]

Digger was and has been a complete horse's ass since he stabbed Fordham in the back back in 1971. He had something like 14 NBA players while at Notre Dame and made ONE Final Four. An absolute joke as a coach.

You got that right, brother.  Sometime, ask Hank Raymonds about the nasty gamesmanship Phelps pulled on MU when we played at their place, ie. turning up the heat to furnace-like temps in the visiting lockerroom, etc.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Another recent MU grad here ('06), and for me, ND is the #2 game on the calendar every year after Wisconsin.

1.) Wisconsin
2.) ND
3.) Louisville
4.) Pitt
A DISTANT 5.) Everyone else

[77ncaachamps]

1997 grad here.

ND was a VERY CLOSE second to Wisconsin before the Big East, but they have to be in a TIE with the WI now.

What also fuels the ND disdain is the fact that I went to school with ND lovers as well as ND rejects.

[bma725]

When I was in school, ND wasn't even really a rival because we played them one time.  There was always talk about how it used to be a rivalry, but we viewed it the same way we viewed DePaul...a team that used to be important to MU that no longer mattered.

Cincy was by far the biggest rival, with Louisville and Wisconsin a close second. 

One was that Digger called O'Neil when he got the job and made a comment along the lines of, "congratulations, you just inhereted the worst fans in the country."

Hate to break it to you, but Digger loves MU and has loved MU for years.  He may act like a jerk in public, but behind the scenes he was always a fan.  He applied for the MU job when Al retired and they wouldn't give it to him.  He wanted it again when Hank left, but they had already settled on Majerus.  He was a little burned by that, but he still has been a MU fan all along.

[MUWarrior06]

Another recent MU grad here ('06), and for me, ND is the #2 game on the calendar every year after Wisconsin.

1.) Wisconsin
2.) ND
3.) Louisville
4.) Pitt
A DISTANT 5.) Everyone else

Recent Grad (06) here too. I have to disagree with your rankings.

My top 5 most hated schools (so would be biggest rivalry) would be
1) Louisville- dates all the way back to CUSA times. Can't stand Pitino
2) Duke - I just hate them. MU never plays them but when they do I love beating them
3) ND
4) WI

I put WI low because while I love beating them, I still cheer for them after MU beats them (helps out MU's strength of schedule). Not to mention when MU is out of the tourney and if WI is still in it, I cheer for them. Being born and raised in WI, it's always good to see some program do well. Speaks for the state if more than 1 team can have a good season. So after we beat them I like to see them win, but seeing them lose is always good because it shuts up the nay-sayers out west there saying in March that they coulda shoulda woulda way back early in the season


ND is a big rivalry though. Maybe not for you current students who don't understand the history behind it, but for those of us growing up MU fans, we hate em and understand the history. Even though I was very young, I was a fan and did not like ND.

Plus they are complete douchebags. Been trying to find that picture of them all putting sun-screen on each other on a boat somewhere. Hilarious

[drewm88]

Class of 2010 here, and I hate ND. I think part of it is that my parents are 77 grads and I was raised with the rivalry. Even without that upbringing, how could I not? Mike Brey and his freaking hair and mock turtlenecks. Shrek and his whining. Shrek's family that all looks the same. McAlarney.  Their stuck up fans. It's not hard. Also, I'd say this game is pretty big on campus. Independent of all surrounding situation (rankings, home/away, etc.) I'd say ND is 2nd to Wisconsin in general.

For me personally,
1. ND
2. Badgers
3. Louisville
4. ND again
5. Jamar Nutter

[tower912]

Digger getting beer spilled on him is not a rumor.   I was really close to it when it happened.

[SonofPianoMan]

Giving Digger a little bit of wiggle room, I was there when we broke out in the chant, "Digger beats his wife"...  not proud of it, but we did it.

[only a warrior]

I think there was also the "we did Digger's daughter chant"

86 grad here - the rivalry was intense back in our day.  David Rivers just killed us - remember his last second shot to beat us and then him/Digger doing the jig at half court.  You could just feel the crowd surging forward towards them, thought we would've killed them if we could of gotten to them.

[MU86NC]

I remember that chant "Digger beats his wife" and I couldn't agree more with tower912 - beating ND away is a great victoryf or the team and the program.   ND vs. MU was the Monday night game of the week...

[bilsu]

Part of the rivalry is the fact the Notre Dame is (or was) considered to be the Catholic University.

[pbiflyer]

Giving Digger a little bit of wiggle room, I was there when we broke out in the chant, "Digger beats his wife"...  not proud of it, but we did it.

I remember Spring Break at the Button in Ft Lauderdale in 83, when they announced the NCAA field. Marquette made it, Notre Who did not. ND students were there in the Button (for those too young, they used to pit schools against each other in various games like beer chugging and vegatible eating). Still remember the chants of "NC Double A, Digger Phelps is gay." (Not that there's anything wrong with it). 

[romey]

I was student '79-'83 and despised them Doc Rivers from half court to win it on the saturday before the start of the second semester - freakin' awesome.  Great rivalry throughout the 70's as well.

[MonsterWebWarrior]

'98 grad here.  I'm originally from Wisconsin, not Irish, not Catholic, and didn't know any ND fans growing up.  Everyone I knew was a Badgers fan, including myself growing up.  Call me naive or whatever, but when I got to MU, I was stunned at all the students that cheered for ND and how popular they were.  It was like they were MU's own team.  I didn't get it.  We didn't go there, why were so many cheering for them?  That's when I started disliking them.  And Wisconsin.  Once I began classes at Marquette, not gonna cheer for anyone else.  All other loyalties be damned.

That said, I didn't feel much of a rivalry per se with ND.  I didn't know anyone who went there.  They weren't in conference.  They were never on my radar of schools to go to.  I did know people who went to Wisconsin though, and all my family and friends back home were Badgers fans.   I hate all they hype they get in Wisconsin, even more than us at times in our own hometown Milwaukee, and listening to all their nonsense that I should like their football team because we don't have one.   No way.  I 150% believe that as their football team goes, so go the rest of their teams and athletic dept, so I will not root for them in any case in any sport.  I will never betray MU and become a fan of another school in anything.

Now that I got that off my chest (whew), my order goes:

1.  Wisconsin.  My most hated team in all sports, pro or college.
2.  Louisville.  I can't even root for them in non-conf.  Pitino's a jag.
3.  Pitt - They're just dirty
4.  Any team coached by Bobby Huggins
5.  ND - no hatred, but it feels more fun to beat them for some reason

[sigep80]

It was the biggest rivalry in the late '70's- even more than DePaul.  We all hated those guys - part of it was because we all knew someone who knew someone at ND. 

We got at Digger, and I've told the story before on the board about the big, bad forward who ended up puking off the front porch of the Sig Ep house (one of my favorite memories) after one of the games...

[muwarrior87]

I'm an @sshole, i'm an @sshole i'm an @sshole all the same...but i'd rather be an @sshole than go to Notre Dame.

I'm an @sshole, i'm an @sshole, i'm an @sshole all my life...but i'd rather be an @sshole than have to sleep w/ Digger's wife.

[77fan88warrior]

Digger had a fit in the late 80's when Donald Royal had a beer dumped on him at halftime. In typical fashion, Digger made a big deal out of it and said Royal had to have his eyes washed out or something. He made it sound like MU fans threw acid in his face.
People tend to forget that MU, ND, and DP were independents until we joined the MCC. Ray Meyer, Digger Phelps and AL were the marketing team that helped all of us get TV time. These guys had to create excitement or they wouldn't be able to recruit or get tv time.
Digger was such an a$$ that he would never light up the opposing teams name on their corner scoreboards. He was such a huge jagoff that ND's fans would tell you the same. I had buddies that went to his bball camp and said that he would barely show up and then would proceed to act  like a bigshot.
Digger also had a shoe contract with Pony so you always had to see him on tv. It was our biggest rivalry back then but then it turned into Cin.. ND also wouldn't play us for awhile when they first joined the BE or just afterwards.

[Marquette_g]

I think this thread is interesting as there certainly seems to be some pretty interesting differences in how the rivalry is viewed.  When I was in school there was little doubt that Cincy was the biggest rivalry.  They were always good, there was the Huggy factor, and the general thuggery of it all.  Given that they've fallen a good deal in the last decade I think my list has been revised:

1.  UW
2.  Pitt
3.  Louisville
4.  ND
5.  Cindy

For some reason the St. John's games tend to get a little chippy as well, even though our recent history with them isn't overly robust.

[lurch91]

Again, I had 2 brothers graduate from ND and 2 sisters that graduated from St. Mary's (but were in the ND marching band/pep band).  Every Domer I ran into while at MU always assumed that I didnt' follow the family tradation of going to ND because I wasn't smart enough.

Every Domer assumes people go to other colleges and universities because they couldn't get into Notre Dame.  That smugness is why I hate Domers, and their fans.

Edit: And yes, loosing 14-16 straight games to ND in the 80's didn't help either.

[lurch91]

Digger getting beer spilled on him is not a rumor.   I was really close to it when it happened.

Oh to have been old enough to have spilled beer on the ND team in the MECCA.....

I could only wish.

And just to clarify, was it really "spilled"?  Did it have any horizonal tendancy when it hit Digger?  Or was it really all vertical?

[tower912]

I do not recall the incident of which you speak.