NCAA Contenders and Pretenders...MU mention

[GOMU1104]

Probably won't go over to well around here...

http://dimemag.com/2009/01/ncaa-contenders-and-pretenders/#more-4941


Check out the blog...mostly NBA and Bucks talk, but some MU discussion here and there!

bucksketball.blogspot.com

[robmufan]

Yea......ummmm.....

I'm going to disagree here.  I respect his opinion but I am going to say that some of his logic is wrong.  I would actually say Dom is better this year than Jerel.  Sure he doesn't score as many point, but Dom is emerging as a TRUE point guard.  He also is killing star players with his lock down defense.

Though I dont think UCONN is as good as everyone thought they were, I wouldn't call them a "pretender" either!!

[1990Warrior]

Is Andy Katz going by Andrew Katz now.  That would explain everything.

[mu_hilltopper]

Pretenders

Marquette - The Queen of the Pretenders, Marquette will do just enough to merit a little respect inside your brain. But don't trust them! They beat West Virginia when one of Huggie's favorite guards Joe Mazzulla was hurt. They beat Villanova, but as you'll see soon, they've got a bunch of people fooled too. Dominic James has been in school for 13 years now and he gets a ton of love from the press, but Jerel McNeal is by far and away their best player.

[Wareagle]

"Dominic James has been in school for 13 years now and he gets a ton of love from the press"

This joke is only funny if a player has had a medical redshirt.  See Tucker, Alando.

[willie warrior]

Total Bull. There is no way that Louisville is a contender. They are overrated and lucky. They should have lost against Villanova.

Once again, Pitino's rep overerates Louisville.

[NavinRJohnson]

Not sure I disagree with him - yet. I don't trust them at this point either. If they can demonstrate that they can play with and beat bigger talented teams like UConn, Georgetown, Pitt, UofL, I'll be convinced. I'm not sure they can do that yet...if they can't, they will have a tough time advancing in the tournament.

McNeal probably is our best player right now. Not sure why he considers that comment relevant anyway. Who cares? Unless his implication is that Dom isn't good, in which case he's just an idiot. Anyway, I'm not sure it has to be one or the other. They are very different players right now - both very good at what they do and they complement each other very well.

[GOMU1104]

I think it is easy for an outsider to write us as pretenders at this point in the season.  Look, we know what this team is capable of, we know their flaws...because watch them very closely and constantly discuss them in these forums.


I doubt this guy has watched many, if any, of our games this year. So if you only go by just boxscores and stat sheets, saying what he said isnt that far off. Our 4 Big East wins have come against teams with a combined record of 3-12 in Big East play....so its easy to call us a pretneder at this point, because we have not been tested against the teams in the league. Jerel averages more points than Dominic, so he MUST be the better player.


See where I am coming from? If you watch the games close like we all do, its easy to discount what this guy is saying. But if you dont watch as closely, and just look at the schedule and boxscore, you can understand how this guy derives his opinion.

[jaybilaswho?]

It is too early to say that we are pretenders. I could see if we had played a big team in the BEast already, but we havent. Our biggest conference challenge has been Villanova, but we were at home. The fact is, we havent been challenged and to use that as a basis for calling us pretenders is ridiculous. i think he wrote this because he wanted to have it published before our first loss so he could say, "here comes their decline... i called it." I do think that if we get past Notre Dame at the lepracaun (sp?) hell hole... Mr. Andrew (andy?) Katz's tone changes.

Just because we face really our hardest (road) games at the end of the year shouldnt place us as pretenders.

As far as Dom, he has been in school for 17 years (assuming 9 years grad school, 4 years HS and 4 years NCAA). Just because a guy has had the talent since freshmen year to possibly go pro, but chooses the smarter move of staying in school and developing, shouldnt be hated on. Although i am guilty with this on Carl Krauser, but that is different, Krauser was a douche.

[dwaderoy2004]

I'm sorry, I love this team, but I have to agree with him.  an NCAA contender is a team that has a legitimate shot to win the NCAA tournament.  Without a big man, I just don't think that is possible with this group.  Can this team make a run to the Elite Eight.  Sure.  Can they win the whole dang thing?  at this point, i don't think so.

Now, we run through the Big East and beat Pitt, Uconn, louisville along the way, my mind can be changed.  but i just think we'll get "chism'ed" whenever we face a team with a dominant post player, just like against tennessee.

(wow, "chism'ed" sounds really gross.)

[Avenue Commons]

They also list Duke as a pretender. I watched the Duke vs. Wake Forest game the other night. The Dukies are really, really good.

Also, it we're "pretenders", that's actually OK with me. At least we're in the discussion of teams that could make a title run.

[LON]

I'm sorry, I love this team, but I have to agree with him.  an NCAA contender is a team that has a legitimate shot to win the NCAA tournament.  Without a big man, I just don't think that is possible with this group.  Can this team make a run to the Elite Eight.  Sure.  Can they win the whole dang thing?  at this point, i don't think so.

Now, we run through the Big East and beat Pitt, Uconn, louisville along the way, my mind can be changed.  but i just think we'll get "chism'ed" whenever we face a team with a dominant post player, just like against tennessee.

(wow, "chism'ed" sounds really gross.)

I'd like to know, as I'm sure everyone else does as well, where does the headband fit into the "chism'ed" equation?

And as usual, Katz is a douche-nozzle.

[OneMadWarrior]

Arizona State as a contender is Laughable, I believe they got beat last night pretty handily by USC, Syracuse hasn't really played anyone who is any good and beaten. Their out of conference makes out SOS look liek Murder's Row.

[reinko]

Man, Dime Magazine that's harsh.  I hope SLAM has a bit more respect for us.

[Big Papi]

Some of the teams on his list of contenders and pretenders are real head scratchers.  MU is not a title contender so I have no problems been labeled as a pretender but I do wonder how good this team would have been with a healthy Fulce, Otule and a 6'7" shot blocking, jumping jack with extremely long arms in Mbakwe.  We could have been serious contenders.

[chapman]

Is this Andrew the Andy Katz?  It sure doesn't seem like it.  Andy Katz is usually a little more tactful than to call MU the "Queen of the Pretenders" or claim a 4th year senior has been in school forever (sounds like a Pitt fan if anything).  Plus, while we may be overrated, there is an obvious contradiction in the pretender vs. experienced senior jibes.  And, despite the general sentiment here about Katz the Badger, IMO he's usually pretty optimistic when it comes to MU.  Plus I think Andy would write on his ESPN blog or for ESPN Magazine, not a second-rate blog.  My verdict is that they're NOT the same person.

[dwaderoy2004]

Arizona State as a contender is Laughable, I believe they got beat last night pretty handily by USC, Syracuse hasn't really played anyone who is any good and beaten. Their out of conference makes out SOS look liek Murder's Row.

Don;t disagree with you on ASU, but seriously, Cuse hasn't played and beaten anyone good?  They beat Florida, Kansas and Memphis in their OOC schedule.  Pretty comparable, if not better than what we played. in year's past their OOC sched has been a joke, but not this year.  Cuse is good.

[TheGym]

They also list Duke as a pretender. I watched the Duke vs. Wake Forest game the other night. The Dukies are really, really good.

Also, it we're "pretenders", that's actually OK with me. At least we're in the discussion of teams that could make a title run.

When did Duke play Wake?  I watched the Duke/GT game and they were OK but not really really good.  I think this year there are plenty of contenders as there are alot of teams that can make the final four.  

[thanooj]

". . . but I do wonder how good this team would have been with a healthy Fulce, Otule and a 6'7" shot blocking, jumping jack with extremely long arms in Mbakwe.  We could have been serious contenders."

i totally agree.  Mbakwe really screwed us.

Tubby tampered.

[tower912]

I fully accept and acknowledge this teams weaknesses, and that we don't have a signature win over a highly rated program this year.   I also freely acknowledge a run to the title will require the right matchups and some breaks.  However, and let me boil it down to this.....Name the teams you truly fear on a neutral court.   I believe we can compete and, if we play a quality game, can beat anybody except, possibly UNC on a neutral court.    Will we?   I doubt it.   Our margin of error is too thin.  Is it likely, not remotely.  Is it possible?  HELL YES!

[NavinRJohnson]

Name the teams you truly fear on a neutral court.   

Pittsburgh, Louisville, UConn, UNC, Oklahoma, Duke, Wake, Tennessee...There are undoubtedly a couple of others that seem to have the same combination of size and athleticism that would provide a terrible match up for MU. We''ll get a look at several of those...hopefully I'm wrong. The matchups are what matter.

[tower912]

Naivin, I will give you UNC and Oklahoma.   I think we have a reasonable chance of beating the rest (at least 2 out of 5 times)    Griffin and Psycho T are matchups that will mess us up.   Vols was a one possession game with 2 minutes to go at their place.    Duke, not big enough or freaky athletic enough.   UConn/Louisville,  too inconsistent, but when playing well could do it.   Pitt is very good, but I just cannot believe that a team that we have been so competitive with on every court imaginable kicks our butt on a neutral court.   Possible, but not likely.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Too early to say we are pretenders.  Also too early to say we are contenders.

Our Big East opponents are 3-12.  Let's see how we do against the big boys.  I, too, agree with the author that Nova is a bit overrated.  Good club, but I see them as a 9-9 or 8-10 type team.  WVU should finish above .500.

I see UW-Madison lost again last night, at home.  And some here still think they are as good as years past?   

[RawdogDX]

Our Big East opponents are 3-12.  Let's see how we do against the big boys.  I, too, agree with the author that Nova is a bit overrated.  Good club, but I see them as a 9-9 or 8-10 type team.  WVU should finish above .500.

I don't like that stat because if we sucked our opponents would be 7-8. Let's say 3-8, no reason to use our own wins as reasons to doubt our team.

[Badgerhater920]

+1 - I think we'll know a lot more about our team on Saturday night.

But back to his point about Jerel being better than Dominic. This guy is an idiot. Not because he thinks Jerel is the better player (he may be, but why compare two players having great seasons playing completely different positions this year). He's an idiot because pointing this out does nothing to make his point about MU being a pretender. Our SG is our best player, not our PG, so that means we're a pretender....?