Bullseye

[MR.HAYWARD]

looks like the scout board had a conversation with Bullseye.  Some good stuff the one huge huge huge question I would have is has Buzz been able to rebuild the bridge with Butler and the Warriors program.  Does anyone have any insight into that?  BMA?  That pipeline was huge for MU and got cut off.  Has Buzz been able to resurrect the realtionship with the best AAU program in Chicago?

[bma725]

Haven't had time to look at the Bullseye interview, but you'd have to assume MU is back in the Warriors good graces based on the fact they have been recruiting a couple Warriors players since Crean left.   MU was involved with David Brown before backing off, and they are very involved with Darius Smith and Brandon Spearman both of whom play for the Warriors.  MU would not have gotten that far in the past, but it has a lot more to do with Tony Benford than it does Buzz Williams.  He was already recruiting Chicago for Nebraska and already had dealings with Larry Butler.

Having said that, it isn't like it used to be where all the top talent was with the Illinois Warriors.  It's a lot more spread out now.  Lavonte Dority for example is getting a bunch of interest from MU, Kansas and many others...and he plays for the Chicago Elite.  Deandre McCamey is part of the Illinois Wolves.  Phillip Jackson is part of the Mac Irvin Fire. 

Larry Butler's influence seems to be waning, especially now that the program has switched from Nike to Under Armour.  The split was not particularly amicable and rumor is that Nike just got sick of dealing with him so they dropped him.  If they chose to, Nike can go with another AAU team and make the Illinois Warriors completely irrellavant. 

[Pakuni]

Interesting read re: Butler and Nike.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/lockerroom/2008/09/the-demise-of-larry-butler.html

The demise of Larry Butler
By Taylor Bellon September 29, 2008 2:30 PM |

In talking to a veteran high school basketball coach the other day, I mentioned that Larry Butler, the longtime head coach of the Illinois Warriors' AAU basketball program, no longer was employed by Nike. Depending on your source, he was either fired or resigned. Now Mac Irvin of the Chicago Fire and Tai Streets of MeanStreets are Nike's representatives in Chicago.

"You made my day," the coach said.

Butler was employed by Nike for 13 years. He built one of the strongest AAU programs in the country. He helped to produce 19 NBA players, two Olympians and 11 assistant college coaches. The list includes Andre Iguodala, Jon Scheyer and Jerrance Howard.

He claimed his decision to leave was based on the fact that he no longer was on the same page with Nike's new management. When Nike asked him to co-exist with his rival AAU coaches, Irvin and Streets, he said he couldn't and wouldn't. So Nike severed their longtime relationship.

There is no in-between with Butler. You either love him or hate him. Some players credit him for their success in college or the NBA. Others claim he manipulated them. Some parents claim Butler is the reason their sons received a college education. Others claim their sons were the victims of broken promises. Some high school coaches say he has helped to develop their players. Others say he couldn't teach them how to boil water. Some college coaches insist he has been a boon to youth basketball. Others argue he only uses his kids to put money in his pocket.

"Butler was a snake," said Streets, the former NFL player who has sponsored the MeanStreets program in Harvey for the last eight years.

There is no doubt that Butler works the room as well as any used car salesman. There was a time when Illinois coach Lon Kruger allowed him to sit in his reserved seats at the state tournament in Peoria. Then Butler had a cozy relationship with Marquette. Lately, he has been more than friendly with Kansas.

Former Westinghouse and Homewood-Flossmoor coach Roy Condotti has nothing good to say about how he perceived Butler's relationship with former H-F star Julian Wright, who went on to Kansas and the NBA.

Streets, by all accounts, does things the right way. His program is what the AAU is supposed to be all about. Its mission is to help kids from seventh to eleventh grade, especially those in the inner city and south suburbs where opportunities are fewer, to get to college, to become better citizens and to learn the game of basketball.

"I'm not trying to make a dollar off a kid," said Streets, who graduated from Thornton after transferring from Rich South. "Ninety-five percent of our kids, about 60 each year, go to college. You have to be able to perform in the classroom in order to play on my team.

"Sure, you want to attract the top players. But it's more important to turn the kids into better persons, to help them learn discipline, to get them to college and to help them to be successful after college, after basketball is over. You shouldn't have to offer a pair of basketball shoes to get a kid to play in your program."

Where did the AAU go wrong? Is it all about the shoe companies? Ego-driven players? Greedy coaches? Overzealous parents? All of the above, Streets said.

"People got into the AAU program for the wrong reasons," he said. "Coaches are trying to make money off the kids. They aren't teaching them. That's why the European players are doing better than us. In a majority of AAU programs, no instruction is being done. They just let them run up and down the floor and book trips to tournaments in Las Vegas or Orlando or Atlanta or Myrtle Beach.

"It is frustrating to coach in the AAU today. Parents are unrealistic. Kids leave my squad because I'm too hard on them. Parents only want you to praise their kids. You tell them that 99 percent of all kids will never play in the NBA and they don't believe you. The AAU needs standup people in the program to do things the way they should be done."

Streets said Butler simply thought he was bigger than Nike. He said he never had a relationship with Butler, that he can work with Irvin and Mike Mullins of the Wolves and other AAU programs in the Chicago area, even if they are sponsored by Adidas or Reebok.

"I heard a lot of horror stories about Butler," he said. "He would steal kids from other programs, promise kids anything to get them into his program and send kids to various colleges. If you're doing things the right way, you won't abuse kids. There is plenty for all."

[MR.HAYWARD]

Well the Wolves have been around for along time ...see Joe Chapman...as have MAc Irvin's Fire team and Mean streets  see Jerel and Reece.  Probably on of my favorite teams to watch back in the day wa sthe team with PArgo, Freeman, NAte Minnoy, thomas and a whole host of big time players just a fun fun group to watch.  Nevertheless, You are right Butlers teams have not been what they were back in the day with Miles, Wade, blankson, Wright, etc. etc.  There are just too many good players in Chicago for one team to have anyway.  But the bottom line is if there are going to be 3-4-5 good AAu teams from chicago land is it not in our best interestes to have arguabley the best one to have an absolute freeze on the MU program.  Mu's relationship with Butler got us a bunch of talent that fueled us for a while and it was a huge loss to have that bridge burned.  Good to hear Tony is involved they may not be the best but we want to be able to pursue great players if they are Warriors.

[Phi Iota Gamma 84]

Which team is Blackshear on, I here he is a stud!!

[bma725]

Which team is Blackshear on, I here he is a stud!!

Mac Irvin Fire.

[ceh]

What is the back story on the "burned bridge" between MU and Butler?

[GregShimonFor2]

See Odartey Blankson.

[bma725]

What is the back story on the "burned bridge" between MU and Butler?

Butler was the one whispering in Odartey's ear about being better than Wade, being ready to go to the NBA, transferring to UNLV etc.

Prior to that, MU had Wade, Blankson and Townsend from the Warriors.  After Blankson left, Butler froze Crean out. 

[MR.HAYWARD]

Problems arose long before Blankson ever left MU.  Bottom line is Crean pissed Butler off not unlike most people he came in contact with to the point that he burned the Butler bridge.  Bottom line is you might think you win the battle in a spat like that but burning a bridge to the strongest AAu program in the city is a losing proposition.  Glad to hear we are back in with the Warriors.  Timing was right for Crean to go, he had burned so many bridges he needed to move on.
Apart from Jerel the Chicago pipeline really dried up for us.  Glad to see Buzz trying to rebuild with Butler, Crean also got froze out of MAc Irvin's program for basically the same arrogance and disrespect.   

[MR.HAYWARD]

here is the recap ...personally although Crean really po'd some people in Chicago I think the biggest issue to us restarting our heavy recruitment of Chicago is a guy like Tony Benford.  As we all remember the carnage...it has got to be hard to recruit and form relations ships with kids when you have such amazing turnover on your staff like Crean did.  There was a period there where he lost 2 or in some cases every assistant coach on an annual basis.  now granted some left for "better" jobs but as we all know some left for far worse jobs and many left with no job at all.  Regardless of wether they left for the reported friction on staff or not.  It is got to be that much harder to recruit a kid when it is a different lead recruiter every year for 2-3-4 years of your recruitment. 

Roy Schmidt on MU recruiting in Chicago

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JD:   “What was the take out of Chicago – April 1st Tom Crean left MU – he had some close ties to Chicago but he’s gone to Indiana and now Buzz Williams has taken over MU's program– what’s the take on Buzz down in Chicago?”

 

Roy Schmidt:  “I think he’s been extremely well received as have his assistants.  I thought it was an absolutely outstanding move on Buzz Williams’ part earlier in the year in October just before, or actually right after, the official start of practice.  If my memory serves me correctly, I think it was actually the opening weekend of practice when Buzz Williams decided to bring his team into Chicago and practice at the University of Chicago.  To me that was an absolutely outstanding move because I think it sent a message to people in Chicago, primarily the high school coaches in the Chicago Public League and in the outlining areas, that this Marquette staff is going to continue to make Chicago a huge recruiting priority and that they mean business there.  I do know for a fact that from that time forward everyone that I have spoken with in the windy city, when it comes to Marquette, has had nothing but favorable things to say about Buzz and his staff.”

 

“I would say Tony Benford is probably the lead recruiter in Chicago as far as the assistants go right now, and he works extremely hard.  He has actually recruited Chicago and the Chicago area for quite some time.  I know that he did so happily when he was in Nebraska prior to coming to Marquette so, again, they are going to continue to make Chicago a high priority and I have every reason to think that they are already being extremely well received.”

 

JD:  “That’s an interesting point.  I have seen a lot of assistant coaches at Marquette.  Tom Crean had some very good ones, but the staff that Buzz has assembled I think is second to none when it comes to work ethic and contacts and nationwide scope.  Yes, they recruit Wisconsin.  Yes, they recruit Illinois but now you hear of many recruits in California or Oregon or Florida or New York mentioning MU among their favorites..  For example,MU has a recruit from Florida committed for 2010.  They just got a recruit out of Pennsylvania in ’09.”

 

Roy Schmidt:  “That is undoubtedly true and with that being said, I think that Marquette first and foremost is going to continue to take a national approach when it comes to their recruiting.  While Chicago will be extremely important obviously, it’s not going to be the end all.  Texas, extremely important, but it’s not going to the end all.  California, any other area, you name it.  I think that they will continue to be national in scope which you have to be when you are recruiting at a level and the caliber of the Big East and it’s a case of being able to go out and identify the best available targets and players who can compete at your level and I think that Buzz Williams as well as his assistants are the type of coaches who have the work ethic as you said as well as the ability to evaluate that talent and make the right decision when it comes to being able to recruit in the Big East.”

[ceh]

Interesting, thanks for the info.  It's probably better that Chicago talent is being dispersed across several teams today as opposed to being funneled solely through Butler.

[MR.HAYWARD]

it never was solely thru Butler, they were very strong and we were frozen out with Butler and Irvin...hence the fact that we have signed 2 chicago kids in 5 years and they are both from Meanstreets.   Thats two if you include Reece. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Butler was the one whispering in Odartey's ear about being better than Wade, being ready to go to the NBA, transferring to UNLV etc.

Prior to that, MU had Wade, Blankson and Townsend from the Warriors.  After Blankson left, Butler froze Crean out. 

I've always kind of heard about this, but is it really true?

I've heard stories about how Crean was especially hard on blankson, but he was a frosh. starter, and was getting an opportunity to play a lot.

I have no inside information, but I always thought the "He wanted to go to the NBA, so he transferred" stuff was just speculation by people who really didn't know any of the details (myself included).

Is it true?

If it is, man, that was some bunk advice. I like Townsend, but Blankson was way better than Todd and certainly would have started ahead of him.

[MuMark]

Its true.

Its also true that Blankson later sent a letter to Crean and said he regretted leaving.

[bma725]

I've always kind of heard about this, but is it really true?

I've heard stories about how Crean was especially hard on blankson, but he was a frosh. starter, and was getting an opportunity to play a lot.

He was hard on him but no more than anyone else.  Some people are built to take the criticism some are not.

I have no inside information, but I always thought the "He wanted to go to the NBA, so he transferred" stuff was just speculation by people who really didn't know any of the details (myself included).

It's 100% true.  He was getting advice from Butler about how he needed to play more on the outside, improve his three point shot, become more of a three than a four, become the focal point of the offense etc.  The sad part is, a lot of that would have happened if he stayed.  With RJax at the 5, Merritt went to the 4, and Blankson would have moved to the 3.

That was Crean's biggest issue with Butler.  Not the advice itself but that Butler continued to contact his former AAU players when they were in college and tried to drive them towards what he thought they should do.  He did it with Wade, he did it with Blankson, he did it with Townsend.  Only Blankson listened.    

Odartey continued to follow his advice at UNLV as well.  Remember, Blankson was going to leave UNLV when Spoonhour left and Lon Kruger came in.  But Lon Kruger is Larry Butler's guy, and he convinced Odartey to stay there despite his reservations.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Its true.

Its also true that Blankson later sent a letter to Crean and said he regretted leaving.

not trying to be argumentative.  It is clear to me that ODB should not have left he blew a chance to start on a Final Four team and the fans loved him.  But how in the heck do you know this myth that he sent a lett er is true.  I find that unrealistic, even if he felt it was a mistake I do not see a letter of apology.  Now i could see that rumor coming from the Crean camp, but that was also during the days of 2-3 transfers a year and 2-3 new assistants a year.  So maybe his hype machine was trying to "prove a point"

[ChicosBailBonds]

Problems arose long before Blankson ever left MU.  Bottom line is Crean pissed Butler off not unlike most people he came in contact with to the point that he burned the Butler bridge.  Bottom line is you might think you win the battle in a spat like that but burning a bridge to the strongest AAu program in the city is a losing proposition.  Glad to hear we are back in with the Warriors.  Timing was right for Crean to go, he had burned so many bridges he needed to move on.
Apart from Jerel the Chicago pipeline really dried up for us.  Glad to see Buzz trying to rebuild with Butler, Crean also got froze out of MAc Irvin's program for basically the same arrogance and disrespect.   

Interesting that he pissed so many people off, how was he able to get so many good recruits...odd.   

[jmayer1]

not trying to be argumentative.  It is clear to me that ODB should not have left he blew a chance to start on a Final Four team and the fans loved him.  But how in the heck do you know this myth that he sent a lett er is true.  I find that unrealistic, even if he felt it was a mistake I do not see a letter of apology.  Now i could see that rumor coming from the Crean camp, but that was also during the days of 2-3 transfers a year and 2-3 new assistants a year.  So maybe his hype machine was trying to "prove a point"

I find it really ironic that whenver people ask Mr Hayward for hard concrete evidence or examples about the bad things Crean did he simply leaves the thread but now he wants evidence when somebody else makes a statement putting Crean in a good light.  That is truly laughable.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Interesting that he pissed so many people off, how was he able to get so many good recruits...odd.   

ahh the point is he didnt...apart from Jerel he had not signed a chicago in in 4 years, sorry you did not comprehend any of that.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

He was hard on him but no more than anyone else.  Some people are built to take the criticism some are not.

It's 100% true.  He was getting advice from Butler about how he needed to play more on the outside, improve his three point shot, become more of a three than a four, become the focal point of the offense etc.  The sad part is, a lot of that would have happened if he stayed.  With RJax at the 5, Merritt went to the 4, and Blankson would have moved to the 3.

That was Crean's biggest issue with Butler.  Not the advice itself but that Butler continued to contact his former AAU players when they were in college and tried to drive them towards what he thought they should do.  He did it with Wade, he did it with Blankson, he did it with Townsend.  Only Blankson listened.    

Odartey continued to follow his advice at UNLV as well.  Remember, Blankson was going to leave UNLV when Spoonhour left and Lon Kruger came in.  But Lon Kruger is Larry Butler's guy, and he convinced Odartey to stay there despite his reservations.

Interesting stuff.

BMA, you certainly have been right about most other stuff (maybe all), so I'll take you at your word.

Too bad for Blankson. I thought he could have been a good 3 as a junior and a good combo forward (not unlike his brother) as a senior. Blankson and Novak could/would have started and both been sort of 3/4's. Even with Wade leaving, that still would have been a pretty good club.

[MuMark]

I have been told about the letter by more then one person who would know.

Its not a myth but believe what you want.

[Wade for President]

Roy Schmidt:  “I think he’s been extremely well received as have his assistants.  I thought it was an absolutely outstanding move on Buzz Williams’ part earlier in the year in October just before, or actually right after, the official start of practice.  If my memory serves me correctly, I think it was actually the opening weekend of practice when Buzz Williams decided to bring his team into Chicago and practice at the University of Chicago.  To me that was an absolutely outstanding move because I think it sent a message to people in Chicago, primarily the high school coaches in the Chicago Public League and in the outlining areas, that this Marquette staff is going to continue to make Chicago a huge recruiting priority and that they mean business there. 

Interesting insight.  I have a couple questions in regards to the team's practice in October @ University of Chicago.

Obviously LOVE the move.  Great for Jerel and Mo to get back home for a few days.  Roy said that a lot of area high school coaches took note of Buzz's practice, and realize MU's staff is going to make Chicago a huge recruiting priority.

Question:  Did a lot of coaches really know about this/take notice of this?  Is MU able to invite area coaches to sit in on an MU practice, or does that cross the line as an NCAA violation?  To me...a formal invitation from Buzz to area coaches would be a HUGE step in fortifying those Chicago relationships.

[4everwarriors]

Curious if Butler has a cool catchy name like Kool Aid or World Wide or if he's just plain old Butler? Something like Windy City Butler or Chi Town Butler might work.

[sigep80]

In light of his leaving Nike, maybe it's "the Bulter did it"