Get a Life Will You People..

[The Lens]

The difference is he didn't focus on self-promotion first, last, and always. 

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  I'm fond of saying..."KO & Deane could be (or are) A-holes, but they're the first to admit that.  TC is an A-hole who think he's Ghandi"

I have no qualms in giving TC credit for many of the great things he did at MU, I was just always frustrated by the way he could do no wrong in so many people's eyes.  He was not bigger than the school but was allowed to act that way. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  I'm fond of saying..."KO & Deane could be (or are) A-holes, but they're the first to admit that.  TC is an A-hole who think he's Ghandi"

I have no qualms in giving TC credit for many of the great things he did at MU, I was just always frustrated by the way he could do no wrong in so many people's eyes.  He was not bigger than the school but was allowed to act that way. 

I hear ya, I get that.

I guess it's just a matter of perception. I don't think TC was allowed to act like he was bigger than the program (just opinion). Also, most big time programs have coaches with big personalities. When people think of Cincy, they still think of Huggins. UK is still Patino country, UNC will always be Dean's place, MU had Al. etc. etc.

I know TC had some grandiose, self-promoting ways, but I think a lot of that promotion is what helped pull MU back up to being a very good program.

I mean, in Crean's second year, he took a really mediocre team on the road to UNC and got on national television. Certainly Crean doesn't deserve all of the credit for getting this game... but I can all but guarantee you that Deane would not have been able to pull this off. Crean had a lot of connections in college hoops, and is a workaholic who was always looking for a way to promote the program (and himself).

It took a little salesmanship to get the MU fanbase excited again, to get MU in the Great Alaska shootout (the first time), to get MU a national TV game, to get Gameday to come to MU, etc. etc.

He certainly wasn't perfect, but I guess you take the good with the bad... and personally, I felt the good outweighed the bad.

Also, I do like Buzz a lot, and I think he is a good fit (provided that he can get his recruits to develop over the next few seasons)

[willie warrior]

I agree with Damon Keys Contacts. When we hired Crean, I had many doubts about him, because I do not  believe we did a thorough search, and he had no real experience other than an Assistant. I did not believe we should hire a trainee and hope he proved out. And I had to read many posts blasting myself and others over the years for offering any criticism at Crean.

Crean did improve the program, but I always suspected that he was a prima donna and not a very good X and O coach. I think his track record has proven that. And afterall: It's Indiana; It's Indiana. He left!! He has proven he is a prima donna and not that good of a game coach.

Now we have Mr. Williams. One could have the same concerns about him. Not much experience, although I believe that it is greater than Crean's at time of hire. I don't know Buzz or much else about him, except he does not appear to be a prima donna. So far he appears to be a good recruiter, not yet sure about his coaching abilities. (case in point: they do not structure free throws in practice.)

The proof of his coaching ability will be to see how we fare at the end of the season, and the dance. And even more of a test will be next year, when almost all of Crean,s people are gone. I suspect a huge slip next year--we will need to see how Buzz does then.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  I'm fond of saying..."KO & Deane could be (or are) A-holes, but they're the first to admit that.  TC is an A-hole who think he's Ghandi"

I have no qualms in giving TC credit for many of the great things he did at MU, I was just always frustrated by the way he could do no wrong in so many people's eyes.  He was not bigger than the school but was allowed to act that way. 

Deane, God love him, also said TC will find out how tough it is at MU.  He also said MU can't go to a Final Four.

Deane, who I love, isn't Nostra Damus.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

I agree with Damon Keys Contacts. When we hired Crean, I had many doubts about him, because I do not  believe we did a thorough search, and he had no real experience other than an Assistant. I did not believe we should hire a trainee and hope he proved out. And I had to read many posts blasting myself and others over the years for offering any criticism at Crean.

Crean did improve the program, but I always suspected that he was a prima donna and not a very good X and O coach. I think his track record has proven that. And afterall: It's Indiana; It's Indiana. He left!! He has proven he is a prima donna and not that good of a game coach.

Now we have Mr. Williams. One could have the same concerns about him. Not much experience, although I believe that it is greater than Crean's at time of hire. I don't know Buzz or much else about him, except he does not appear to be a prima donna. So far he appears to be a good recruiter, not yet sure about his coaching abilities. (case in point: they do not structure free throws in practice.)

The proof of his coaching ability will be to see how we fare at the end of the season, and the dance. And even more of a test will be next year, when almost all of Crean,s people are gone. I suspect a huge slip next year--we will need to see how Buzz does then.

You honestly thought we didn't do a thorough search when Crean was hired?  I've never seen a more thorough search to be honest with you.  The candidates that were up for consideration (I was in the A.D at the time) were very solid, nationally recognized, it was an outstanding crop of young coaches that were under consideration.   Michigan State was considered arguably the best program in the nation at the time and MU was tired of getting coaches from other parts of the country that would last 4 or 5 years and bolt.  They wanted a midwest guy, tied to a great program, who was a very good recruiter, and would out work everyone.

That's what they got and it led MU to the 2nd best tenure in MU history bar none.


And just like many other MU coaches and coaches elsewhere....yes, he's an ahole.  Just like many top executives around the world, they step on a lot of people to get where they are and they self promote.  That's the reality of the world we live in.  Hard to find a lot of "nice guys" at the top anymore.  There are some, but the list is short.

[4everwarriors]

If Deane left the program in shambles, how were we ever able to attract the savior?

[willie warrior]

maybe you are right and the search was thorough--as I recall it he was hired in about two weeks.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If Deane left the program in shambles, how were we ever able to attract the savior?

The same reason why Al started coaching at Belmont Abby.

You have to start somewhere.

[ChicosBailBonds]

maybe you are right and the search was thorough--as I recall it he was hired in about two weeks.

Oh I can assure you that they were looking at Crean and others for a LONG time prior to Deane being let go. 

When MU beat top 10 Cincinnati late in the year at the BC, Huggins was at Turners saying he hoped it would save Mike's job.  Things were going in that direction for a long time that year.  Personally, I always felt Mike deserved another year.  The guy won 100 games in 5 years and deserved another year.  But MU felt differently and changed directions.

Hard to argue with the results, quite frankly.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If Deane left the program in shambles, how were we ever able to attract the savior?

You're kidding, right?  Why don't you ask Kevin O'Neill why he took the job after Dukiet.  Why don't you ask why Al McGuire took the job.

The question I think you need to ask yourself is if MU is at the top of the heap and the program makes the coach as so many here have expoused, why after coming off three NCAA bids does MU have to settle for an in-house assistant?  Why does MU have to hire hot, unproven assistant coaches in 1999 or in 1988?

When is the last time MU has hired an existing, BCS level coach to take over the program to keep it going?   Anyone...anyone?   I believe the answer is never.

So it works both ways.  You can't say MU makes the coach on one hand and on the other hand be using the exact opposite tact for guys you don't consider "aholes".

[Niv Berkowitz]

Wow...this thread's taken on a life of its own. Solid.

I'm going to work on my jumper. I have two years eligibility left.

[MUsoxfan]

If Deane left the program in shambles, how were we ever able to attract the savior?

Easy.   He said Marquette was his dream job and as we know he only had one of those......oh wait

[willie warrior]

It's Indiana, it's Indiana; and color me gone as I am out of here like a rocket.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Some of you older guys will have to help me out, but didn't Al try to leave for the Bucks?

I am by no means defending the way Crean left, or saying the guy isn't a jerk... I'm just saying that a lot of coaches will leave a job if they think there is a better opportunity.

Now, don't get all offended and say something like "bucks are NBA, it's different".

The point I'm making is that (the majority of the time) if a coach thinks there is a better opportunity (no matter what that is), he is going to take it.

[🏀]

The point I'm making is that (the majority of the time) if coach anyone thinks there is a better opportunity (no matter what that is), he is going to take it.

Fixed to give a better perspective.

[4everwarriors]

Some of you older guys will have to help me out, but didn't Al try to leave for the Bucks?

I am by no means defending the way Crean left, or saying the guy isn't a jerk... I'm just saying that a lot of coaches will leave a job if they think there is a better opportunity.

Now, don't get all offended and say something like "bucks are NBA, it's different".

The point I'm making is that (the majority of the time) if a coach thinks there is a better opportunity (no matter what that is), he is going to take it.

Who you calling old? Al was hired to be the Bucks' head coach. Buck Raynor wouldn't let him out of his MU contract and he remained the Warriors coach. This was circa 1969.

[Skatastrophy]

Who you calling old? Al was hired to be the Bucks' head coach. Buck Raynor wouldn't let him out of his MU contract and he remained the Warriors coach. This was circa 1969.

Did he have to ride a dinosaur to work way back then?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Who you calling old? Al was hired to be the Bucks' head coach. Buck Raynor wouldn't let him out of his MU contract and he remained the Warriors coach. This was circa 1969.

Ha.

Sorry for that. I'm just saying that I'm not the expert on Al McGuire. I didn't mean it to come out like "old guys".

My point still stands however. Al saw an opportunity and took it. Crean did something similar.

I'm not comparing the 2 men's character, I'm just saying that it's interesting when people crucify Crean for something similar to what Al did (Al rarely gets criticized for anything).

Maybe in 10 years people will be grilling Buzz and saying how TC did more with less. Who knows?

[Badgerhater920]

Ive made over 1000 posts on this board.  Ive also made a ton in the Superbar which doesn't count.  Throughout one full day I am fully capable of being able to pay attention to Marquette and other things... such as teaching, coaching, other sports teams, and even more... including Tom Crean.

Why do we keep up on old MU players in the NBA... why do we care about Dwyane Wade, hes at friggen Miami right now... who cares, he only USE to be a MU player... just like Crean USE to be the coach... I care about past relations to the program...and ones who backstab or ditch the program without fair warning, plus attempt to take and steal players away from the program I root against.

I went to school at UW-Platteville, there is a love affair with Bo Ryan at that school (literally)... why can't they get over Bo Ryan, hes at Wisconsin now... oh wait, because he coached there... thats why

Why is your screenname of a player who played barely a season for us and then went back to his home country?  Hes not with us anymore.

Really? I love Dwyane Wade. He's arguably the greatest thing ever to happen to Marquette. I watch every Heat game, own a Wade jersey, a t-shirt jersey, a 2006 NBA champions shirt, and Heat shorts. If he goes elsewhere, I will become a big of that team.

I don't like most of the players on the Celtics, but I cheered for them in the finals because of Doc. I guess we live contrasting lifestyles, Mayor.

Now...those people that became Jets fans because of Favre, THAT'S a whole different issue. That's particularly awful. Unless they are southern miss fans 

[rocky_warrior]

Did he have to ride a dinosaur to work way back then?

Jesus had a pet dinosaur?  Sweet!

[Mayor McCheese]

Really? I love Dwyane Wade. He's arguably the greatest thing ever to happen to Marquette. I watch every Heat game, own a Wade jersey, a t-shirt jersey, a 2006 NBA champions shirt, and Heat shorts. If he goes elsewhere, I will become a big of that team.

I don't like most of the players on the Celtics, but I cheered for them in the finals because of Doc. I guess we live contrasting lifestyles, Mayor.

Now...those people that became Jets fans because of Favre, THAT'S a whole different issue. That's particularly awful. Unless they are southern miss fans 

Swing and a miss on figuring out what I was saying...

For a hint... I agree with you, I was attacking what Niv said about why we still talk about Crean due to him being gone... so I was using other examples of former MU players/coaches to show Crean isn't the only one...

I'll put the ball back on the tee so you can take another whack at it 

[🏀]

Jesus had a pet dinosaur?  Sweet!

+1

[Badgerhater920]

Swing and a miss on figuring out what I was saying...

For a hint... I agree with you, I was attacking what Niv said about why we still talk about Crean due to him being gone... so I was using other examples of former MU players/coaches to show Crean isn't the only one...

I'll put the ball back on the tee so you can take another whack at it 

Welp, I'm smart.