To Be Fair To Crean...

[TallTitan34]

... I usually comment when they are losing to a bad team but right now they are up 19 on  Michigan in the first half.  I will give them props.

[wadesworld]

... I usually comment when they are losing to a bad team but right now they are up 19 on  Michigan in the first half.  I will give them props.

Haha only to see a 6 point lead with under a minute disappear.  That's all on coaching right there.  Why attack the rim in that situation?  All this tells me is that the win against Duke was a fluke game for Michigan and UCLA isn't as good as they have been in the previous 3-4 years.  Michigan got owned by Wisconsin, who isn't nearly as good as they usually are, and almost loses to Indiana...overrated.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Haha only to see a 6 point lead with under a minute disappear.  That's all on coaching right there.  Why attack the rim in that situation?  All this tells me is that the win against Duke was a fluke game for Michigan and UCLA isn't as good as they have been in the previous 3-4 years.  Michigan got owned by Wisconsin, who isn't nearly as good as they usually are, and almost loses to Indiana...overrated.

It tells me both IU and UM are young.  MU, a veteran team, blew a 20 point lead tonight and was winning by 2 points with 36 seconds to play.  Is that coaching?

IU and UM will continue play up and down like this most of the year....UM will be better because they actually have some talent, IU has very little and it's young.

But yes, UCLA isn't as good as years past and everyone out here in LA knows that....very talented, but very young.  Wisconsin is a bit down this year as well, at least from years past.

[wadesworld]

It tells me both IU and UM are young.  MU, a veteran team, blew a 20 point lead tonight and was winning by 2 points with 36 seconds to play.  Is that coaching?

Yes it kind of was coaching.  Rested the starters too early, and while the bench was in we ran the same exact play at least 4 times in a row when we came down the floor, and didn't score once.  I didn't feel that Buzz coached his best game.  I still think he's done great with this team.  The difference here is we won the game, and it was over an 8 minute span.  Indiana was up by 6 with under a minute left.  A good coach tells his team to let the other team foul you, not attack the basket.  You don't need to score to win at that point, you just need to protect the ball.  And they lost.

[MilWarrior]

Chicos with the defense as usual. Although I agree and think it was impressive that Indiana was in the game at all. I am just wondering when there will be a Crean post without an instant Chicos defense.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes it kind of was coaching.  Rested the starters too early, and while the bench was in we ran the same exact play at least 4 times in a row when we came down the floor, and didn't score once.  I didn't feel that Buzz coached his best game.  I still think he's done great with this team.  The difference here is we won the game, and it was over an 8 minute span.  Indiana was up by 6 with under a minute left.  A good coach tells his team to let the other team foul you, not attack the basket.  You don't need to score to win at that point, you just need to protect the ball.  And they lost.

The difference also is that Buzz has 4 elite players, Crean has none.  So saying the difference is that "we won" when we're the 15th ranked team in the country playing a winless team in the Big East vs IU's team....well it seems a bit off on the comparisons.

I remember a Kevin O'Neill team that so many love to rave about as a coach, lose at home to Xavier after coughing up I think a 7 point lead with 20 seconds to play...something like that.  That was with a NBA player on his squad....but his team was mostly freshmen and freshmen don't listen that much and make lots of mistakes.

Wait until next year, you're going to see our boys make plenty of mistakes they don't make this year.  And my guess is 99% will say it's because the team is young, not because of coaching.   

[rocky_warrior]

Wait until next year, you're going to see our boys make plenty of mistakes they don't make this year.  And my guess is 99% will say it's because the team is young, not because of coaching.   

But that wasn't your question.  You asked if MU giving up a huge lead tonight was because of coaching.  The answer is: yes.  Buzz put a number of bench players in around the 12 minute mark.  They gave up too many points, got Rutgers feeling confident, and forced MU to really have to "work" to win the game.

I didn't watch the IU game, so I have no idea whether it was more because of youth or coaching that they lost.  I will say, there were many times when Crean was at MU where I felt we had a good lead, and it was pissed away near the end of the game.  In many cases, I did feel it was coaching.  But that's water under the bridge now.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos with the defense as usual. Although I agree and think it was impressive that Indiana was in the game at all. I am just wondering when there will be a Crean post without an instant Chicos defense.

I'm just wondering why people bury their head in the sand and forget the second best run in MU history....

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090108/SPORTS15/901080445/1247/SPORTS

[4everwarriors]

I'm just wondering why people bury their head in the sand and forget the second best run in MU history....

Because he is a self-centered, egotistcal, power crazed, classless phony.

[Mayor McCheese]

But that wasn't your question.  You asked if MU giving up a huge lead tonight was because of coaching.  The answer is: yes.  Buzz put a number of bench players in around the 12 minute mark.  They gave up too many points, got Rutgers feeling confident, and forced MU to really have to "work" to win the game.

So let me get this straight.... it was Buzz Williams fault that he got our starters some much needed rest at the 12 minute mark when Marquette was up 21?

We need our starters all season, if I was in Buzz's shoes and up 21 with about 12 to go, I would start subbing in the bench no doubt.  You are up 21 points, thats a lot basketball fans.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Because he is a self-centered, egotistcal, power crazed, classless phony.

I agree, he is probably all of those things.

But, he won with some good kids (and promoted the hell out of the program)

Winning = fun.

Winning and graduating players = really fun

Losing = no fun.

I'm afraid it's that simple (at least for me).

[ChicosBailBonds]

Because he is a self-centered, egotistcal, power crazed, classless phony.

Yup, there are many of those folks in coaching....the unfortunate reality of the situation.  And through the years, many become more entrenched in those characteristics as success comes to them.

[77ncaachamps]

Yup, there are many of those folks in coaching....the unfortunate reality of the situation.  And through the years, many become more entrenched in those characteristics as success comes to them.

But I view Marquette as a DESTINATION, not a stopover.

I don't care how we stack against other state and better endowed programs because we have NO football team, a RABID fan base, knowledgeable fans, and DEDICATED backers of the program.

I believe we deserve a coach who will call MU home, succeed here, elevate the program to elite status for many years to come, and build community within MU. Crean *appeared* to be that...then he left.

I don't know if Buzz is that guy, but if we continue to recruit well, win lots, have fun, and win a title (or two or three... ) with him at the helm, then by golly...that'd be AWESOME.

What more do you want?

[rocky_warrior]

So let me get this straight.... it was Buzz Williams fault that he got our starters some much needed rest at the 12 minute mark when Marquette was up 21?

In short - yes.  It worked out great, because we won.

My girlfriend will vouch for me - the moment I saw the lead being pissed away with three subs in - I sighed, and said "Buzz will get killed on the boards if we lose because of this run". 

It did force a momentum shift, and it did cause our starters to work harder in the last 5 minutes of the game.  I might argue that he could have played them from the 12-5 min mark, and rested them the last 5 minutes and it wouldn't have been as much of a problem - and they would have gotten the same amount of (or more) rest. 

But honestly- since I have to help moderate the bitching here when things go badly - I was just praying we didn't lose because of that stretch.  It was a coaching blunder, and I'm thankful it didn't turn out to be a L.

[wadesworld]

In short - yes.  It worked out great, because we won.

My girlfriend will vouch for me - the moment I saw the lead being pissed away with three subs in - I sighed, and said "Buzz will get killed on the boards if we lose because of this run". 

It did force a momentum shift, and it did cause our starters to work harder in the last 5 minutes of the game.  I might argue that he could have played them from the 12-5 min mark, and rested them the last 5 minutes and it wouldn't have been as much of a problem - and they would have gotten the same amount of (or more) rest. 

But honestly- since I have to help moderate the bitching here when things go badly - I was just praying we didn't lose because of that stretch.  It was a coaching blunder, and I'm thankful it didn't turn out to be a L.

I would agree with this, but I don't have that big of a problem with subbing out the starters up 21 with 12 to play.  I do, though, think that once that momentum shifts and it gets down to under 15 as quickly as it did you take a timeout and get your starters back in.  He waited too long to do this and the game got tight again.  It's a win though, and hopefully something Buzz will learn from.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But I view Marquette as a DESTINATION, not a stopover.

I don't care how we stack against other state and better endowed programs because we have NO football team, a RABID fan base, knowledgeable fans, and DEDICATED backers of the program.

I believe we deserve a coach who will call MU home, succeed here, elevate the program to elite status for many years to come, and build community within MU. Crean *appeared* to be that...then he left.

I don't know if Buzz is that guy, but if we continue to recruit well, win lots, have fun, and win a title (or two or three... ) with him at the helm, then by golly...that'd be AWESOME.

What more do you want?

I want that as well...TC gave us 9 years

Deane 5 years
KO 5 years
Dukiet 3 years
Majerus 3 years
Raymonds 6 years


TC was about as stable as we've had for a long time, especially at a school like MU.

I'd love to have stable.

[muarmy81]

  He waited too long to do this and the game got tight again.  It's a win though, and hopefully something Buzz will learn from.

Sounds like he learned his lesson.  He was quoted after the UWV game that he kept McNeal, James, and Wes in the game late because he was afraid of the same thing happening that happened at Rutgers....Of course, nobody knew that he'd offend the great Huggy bear by doing so.  Like this board, you can't please everyone!