Marquette is 2-2 in their 'tough' non-conference games

[WashDCWarrior]

Loss vs. Dayton (N)
Win vs. UW
Loss vs. Tenn (N)
Win @ NC State

Personally, I'll take this record. We have a new coach and two players who we expected to significantly improve our depth (I expected Fulce and Otule to give us 10 mins/game prior to their injuries)

Also it doesn't feel like we've peaked. Several of Crean's teams seemed to play their best ball during a pre-season tournament.

[THEGYMBAR]

Sure looks better than 1-3. Last night was a big win for Buzz and the fella's. The win last night will look good in March, especially if NCState can do something in the ACC.

[Dry White Toast]

The TN should not be classified as a neutral site game.  I was there.  95% Orange (and what an ugly orange it is).

[CTWarrior]

If I was a betting man, I think only two of those "tough" opponents, Wisconsin and Tennessee, are going to the tournament.  If Dayton gets there, the win over us will be one of the main reasons why.  In fact, if we had beaten Dayton, I think most people would be saying that we were 2-1 in our games against tough opponents. 

[bilsu]

We need to be plus ten in my definition of good wins over bad losses. All nuetral and road wins count as good wins. Home wins against top 50 teams count as good wins. Bad losses are home losses to teams not in top 25. Other wins do not count. So we are plus 3 and need to get to plus 10 to get an NCAA bid.

[muwarrior87]

If I was a betting man, I think only two of those "tough" opponents, Wisconsin and Tennessee, are going to the tournament.  If Dayton gets there, the win over us will be one of the main reasons why.  In fact, if we had beaten Dayton, I think most people would be saying that we were 2-1 in our games against tough opponents. 

That same Dayton team that is 10-1 and currently 30th in votes in both the AP and Coaches poll and will finish high in the A10?

[CTWarrior]

That same Dayton team that is 10-1 and currently 30th in votes in both the AP and Coaches poll and will finish high in the A10?

They are ranked where they are pretty much solely because of how they beat us.  Their other "marquee" win was against Auburn by 1 in OT (the same Auburn who got shellacked by Northern Iowa and beat by Mercer).

If we had beaten them they would not be getting support in any poll and the win wouldn't be considered all that great, which was my point.

As for finishing high in the A10, you don't know that.  They didn't last year.  The certainly looked good against us.

[MUBasketball]

I seriously have not been able to understand why so many around here don't give Dayton any respect. I'm not just saying this because we lost to them, but they are a really good team and a very solid program.

They are in a basketball crazy part of the country, and always sell out their games. Oliver Purnell won a ton there, and when he left for Clemson, Gregory just kept on winning. They are extremely consistent. Coming into the season I considered that game a toss-up. I wasn't surprised with the loss. The boys didn't particularly play very well either, that stuff happens. No shame in losing to Dayton though.

I was shocked they barely beat Auburn the night before. I only saw the last few minutes of that game so I can't say for sure, but I would assume they just had an off night...or Auburn had a good night...or both? You can look at scores every night and see a lot of head scratchers.

[StillWarriors]

I saw the Dayton-Auburn game. Dayton looked awful, but they sure looked good whipping us. Dayton was something like 0-23 from 3 against Auburn after coming into the game around 39% from 3--just one of those nights I think, b/c the shots weren't well contested. Nobody looks good when shots aeren't falling.

The A-10 should be decent this year, and I think Dayton will be a borderline Tourney team. I don't think it will be a particularly damaging loss when looking at tourney credentials. I don't see it affecting us too much one way or the other. It will all come down to being at or above .500 in conference.

On that subject, why do we always seem to have a brutal stretch to close the season so we never seem to go into the tourney with momentum, which seems to always hurt us in seeding?? This year we will have to build a cushion early in conference b/c the last several games are cruel.

[MUfan12]

That, and last year they lost the guy who ruined Mo Acker's life with that dunk (name escapes me) about halfway through the season. With him they were ranked in the top 20, but fell off after that.

The Dayton loss won't show up as a bad loss. Should have won? Yeah, I can see it, but far from a gimme.

[muwarrior87]

they may not be dancing come the end of the season but they should be an NIT team at the very least.  As of now, Xavier is the out and out favorite to win the A10 but after them, Dayton is right in the running to finish second.  We had a big hiccup that game but you cannot discount them from being a quality opponent. George Mason next week will be another good gauge before conference play starts to see how good that Dayton team actually is.

[jce]

When we were predicting non-conference records earlier this year, I thought they would lose to Tennessee, and either NC State or Wisconsin.

So I was right in terms of record, but slightly off in terms of results.

[MarquetteDano]

On that subject, why do we always seem to have a brutal stretch to close the season so we never seem to go into the tourney with momentum, which seems to always hurt us in seeding?? This year we will have to build a cushion early in conference b/c the last several games are cruel.

Someone else was stating this may be a blessing in disguise this year (tough schedule end of season).  By the time those brutal games come, I would l think Otule and Fulce will be 100% healthy and game ready.  We are really going to need them.  Imagine playing those games to start conference when those two are still not big-game ready.

[MR.HAYWARD]

bigs wins are cumulative and are not cancelled out by losing to good teams.  Right now we have 2 big wins , not too big wins and two big losses.  At the end of the season they will look a t big win , bad losses, Rpi and conference finish.  So far we have 2 big wins and 0 bad losses.  Two big wins is more than most. 

[WashDCWarrior]

The TN should not be classified as a neutral site game.  I was there.  95% Orange (and what an ugly orange it is).

No argument, but then the Dayton loss in Chicago was basically a home game for us.  These things even out.

[RawdogDX]

They are ranked where they are pretty much solely because of how they beat us. 

Good point.  Let's go through the rankings, switch teams best wins to a loss and then rejudge them.  I mean is Michigan any good?  If you switch that duke win to a loss then they only have one good win and 3 losses, how are they ranked?  What aboue Louisville?  Do they even have a win as good as auburn?  old mis? 


It doesn't matter that we are their marquee win.  That isn't a bad thing, since we are a good team.  Yes that win will be a big factor in them making the tourney, that is what big wins against ranked opponents do for mid majors.

[CTWarrior]

Good point.  Let's go through the rankings, switch teams best wins to a loss and then rejudge them. 

It's a little different here, since we are talking about us and Dayton.  Dayton is coming off of a 7th place finish in the A-10 (while Louisville tied for second in the much tougher Big East)  My point remains that the only reason we NOW consider Dayton a high quality opponent is because they beat us.  By that rationale every team that beats us is a high quality opponent and thus we never lose to a non-high quality team.

I suppose it depends on your definition of a high quality team.  Dayton is definitely top 75 and probably top 50.  If you consider top 50 to be a high quality opponent, then I suppose they are.

[RawdogDX]

The reason we consider dayton to be a high quality oppenent is because they have beat us AND every other team they played with one exception.  Avoiding bad losses is as much a part of being a good team as winning big games.

But no point in aruing now.  They have George mason, memphas, two games against xavier, and the rest of onference play to detirmine it for us.

[YoungMUFan4]

actually, if you were at the chicago invitational you would have noticed that Dayton had a very nice turnout for the game and was at the very least 40% if not more

[Pakuni]

It's a little different here, since we are talking about us and Dayton.  Dayton is coming off of a 7th place finish in the A-10 (while Louisville tied for second in the much tougher Big East)  My point remains that the only reason we NOW consider Dayton a high quality opponent is because they beat us.  By that rationale every team that beats us is a high quality opponent and thus we never lose to a non-high quality team.

I suppose it depends on your definition of a high quality team.  Dayton is definitely top 75 and probably top 50.  If you consider top 50 to be a high quality opponent, then I suppose they are.

Obviously the fact Dayton handled MU upgrades our view of them. Maybe not the only reason, but certainly a big one. I suspect that if UW had knocked off Texas last night, we'd have a higher opinion of UW as well. Kind of a 'duh' factor there.
That said, we're not the only ones who think highly of Dayton. If you put much stock in the Pomeroy rankings/season predictions, he ranks them #46 right now and has them finishing the season 26-5.
Most do consider top 50 a quality opponent. In fact, I believe that's the committee's threshold when considering quality non-conference opponents.

Regarding Dayton last year, remember they were 14-1 with wins over Louisville and Pitt at one point. Then their best player went down with an injury and the season fell apart on them. Their finish last year in the A-10 without the services of their best player is hardly reflective of where they're at today.

[79Warrior]

bigs wins are cumulative and are not cancelled out by losing to good teams.  Right now we have 2 big wins , not too big wins and two big losses.  At the end of the season they will look a t big win , bad losses, Rpi and conference finish.  So far we have 2 big wins and 0 bad losses.  Two big wins is more than most. 

Two big wins? Respectfully, UW and NC State are nice wins, not sure they fit the "big" description.

So far we have zero wins against Top 25 teams.

[cheebs09]

Well at the time UW was a top 25 team. However, we have plenty of chances to beat a top 25 team in Big East play, considering half the conference is in the top 25.