Old Tommy Crean Getting His Ass Handed To Him

[MUsoxfan]

Not only will I always root against Crean, I'll also root against anyone with the last name Harbaugh because they're pricks by association

[downtown85]

My 2 cents (you may have heard this before on another thread):

Crean helped the program.  I agree with Chicos that it was in much better shape when he left than when he got here.  However, under his watch his teams seemed to fade at around tournament time (except once) and lack of paint presence dogged us (and still dogs us) for the last few years.  He seemed to have plateaued and could not for whatever reason seem to get the talent in to get us to the next level.  In particular the question of recruiting bigs.  I would take the center from Temple or Tulsa or about 3 dozen non-top 25 teams rather than what we've got.  He left the cupboard bare in the frontcourt. 

I wish him luck at Indiana and believe he might have gotten the curse of not being able to recruit bigs off his back already if you look at his 2009 class. 

I have moved on months ago and when it comes to recruiting, I am happier with Buzz.  With regard to coaching and preparation,  the jury is still out. 

[RedWebster]

If you're making a decision about Crean  on the basis that he uses a tanning parlor, I have to think it says more about your character than Crean's.

You are DAMN RIGHT I make judgements on the character of men who use tanning parlors. ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY I do! Are you saying there are people who don't? I don't even believe that.

I'll go you one further, if you don't look at any male who uses a tanning bed with some level of suspicion, you judgement can only generously be called questionable.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are DAMN RIGHT I make judgements on the character of men who use tanning parlors. ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY I do! Are you saying there are people who don't? I don't even believe that.

I'll go you one further, if you don't look at any male who uses a tanning bed with some level of suspicion, you judgement can only generously be called questionable.

Do you look at men that use a toupee?  How about hair plugs or other hair system?  How about teeth whitening?  Lasek surgery so they don't have to wear glasses?  Are you a Barry Alvarez fan, he was tan all the time?  What is your criteria in terms of people choosing to do whatever they feel is appropriate to make themselves feel better?

Personally, yeah I think tanning is not only weird, it's unhealthy.  But if that's what someone wants to do and it makes them feel better about themselves, then who the hell cares.

[AlumKCof93]

My $.02.

I loved Crean when he started at MU, his enthusiasm was contagious and he brought in good kids who played hard and graduated.  The final 4 year was the high point of my sportsfan life.

But my enthusiasm for Crean waned as time went on.  The number of transfers and the constant turnover of coaching assistants made me question what was going on.  Additionally, I began to hear stories that he was not the man I thought him to be.  On top of that, the annual flameout come tournament time - the team didn't just lose, they lost badly - was wearing on me.  While they played much better in the BE and NCAA tournaments last year, the manner in which he left resulted in me disliking the guy.  As a result,  will root against him and IU for years to come.  But I root against many times and won't root against Crean with any more animosity than I do against other guys such as Boeheim.

I don't think there's any reason why MU fans can't root against Crean.  He did well at MU and for MU, but he got paid handsomely for it and then worked his success into an incredible package at IU. 

[pbiflyer]

My $.02.

I loved Crean when he started at MU, his enthusiasm was contagious and he brought in good kids who played hard and graduated.  The final 4 year was the high point of my sportsfan life.

But my enthusiasm for Crean waned as time went on.  The number of transfers and the constant turnover of coaching assistants made me question what was going on.  Additionally, I began to hear stories that he was not the man I thought him to be.  On top of that, the annual flameout come tournament time - the team didn't just lose, they lost badly - was wearing on me.  While they played much better in the BE and NCAA tournaments last year, the manner in which he left resulted in me disliking the guy.  As a result,  will root against him and IU for years to come.  But I root against many times and won't root against Crean with any more animosity than I do against other guys such as Boeheim.

I don't think there's any reason why MU fans can't root against Crean.  He did well at MU and for MU, but he got paid handsomely for it and then worked his success into an incredible package at IU. 

Well put. +1

[BuzzSucksSucks]

right on.

[RedWebster]

Do you look at men that use a toupee?  How about hair plugs or other hair system?  How about teeth whitening?  Lasek surgery so they don't have to wear glasses?  Are you a Barry Alvarez fan, he was tan all the time?  What is your criteria in terms of people choosing to do whatever they feel is appropriate to make themselves feel better?

Personally, yeah I think tanning is not only weird, it's unhealthy.  But if that's what someone wants to do and it makes them feel better about themselves, then who the hell cares.

Yes, if somebody chooses to wear a wig....unless it's for some health-related reason...I think their judgement can be called into question. Hair plugs (Joe Biden), the same thing. Teeth whitening is for women. If I see a guy who has had his teeth whitened, I absolutely make a judgement about the guy. Lasik eye surgery is not in the same category.

I am not a Barry Alvarez fan. Never liked Wisconsin, never will. I root for Northwestern in football, first. Illinois second.

[Norm]

"Yes, if somebody chooses to wear a wig....unless it's for some health-related reason...I think their judgement can be called into question. Hair plugs (Joe Biden), the same thing. Teeth whitening is for women. If I see a guy who has had his teeth whitened, I absolutely make a judgement about the guy. Lasik eye surgery is not in the same category."

I can't tell from your post - are you criticizing Joe Biden for wearing hair plugs? You do realize that Biden wore hair plugs for awhile after his two brain surgeries to fix two aneurysms, right? He no longer wears them.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My $.02.

I loved Crean when he started at MU, his enthusiasm was contagious and he brought in good kids who played hard and graduated.  The final 4 year was the high point of my sportsfan life.

But my enthusiasm for Crean waned as time went on.  The number of transfers and the constant turnover of coaching assistants made me question what was going on.  Additionally, I began to hear stories that he was not the man I thought him to be.  On top of that, the annual flameout come tournament time - the team didn't just lose, they lost badly - was wearing on me.  While they played much better in the BE and NCAA tournaments last year, the manner in which he left resulted in me disliking the guy.  As a result,  will root against him and IU for years to come.  But I root against many times and won't root against Crean with any more animosity than I do against other guys such as Boeheim.

I don't think there's any reason why MU fans can't root against Crean.  He did well at MU and for MU, but he got paid handsomely for it and then worked his success into an incredible package at IU. 

The transfers sucked big time, no doubt about it.  I guess I don't understand the comment of the team losing "badly" in the NCAAs.  We had a last second shot to tie Alabama, not sure how that is losing badly.  We lost in OT to Stanford on a last second shot.  Lost to Tulsa with a last second shot to tie.  The only "bad" loss was Michigan State with our best player in a cast.  And yes, we lost badly to Kansas, of course it was also the Final Four, something we hadn't smelled in almost 30 years.  I just don't understand the comment about losing badly.

Fans, in general get spoiled and start to hate on the coach.  At IU, many fans didn't like him (Knight).  At KU, fans were bitching about Roy because he couldn't win it.  Cowboys fans were bitching about Parcells.   It's usually not until the guy is gone when you say he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be.  Of course, that always depends on how successful the follow-up coach is.  If he fails, then the memories of the hated coach warm over rather quickly.  If he succeeds, then obviously not.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, if somebody chooses to wear a wig....unless it's for some health-related reason...I think their judgement can be called into question. Hair plugs (Joe Biden), the same thing. Teeth whitening is for women. If I see a guy who has had his teeth whitened, I absolutely make a judgement about the guy. Lasik eye surgery is not in the same category.

I am not a Barry Alvarez fan. Never liked Wisconsin, never will. I root for Northwestern in football, first. Illinois second.

How did you view Majerus for being obese?

Honestly, I don't care what someone looks like or what they do to make themselves feel better (for the record, I have my own hair, don't tan, don't whiten my teeth and could stand to lose 10 to 15 lbs).  I just don't care.  Can the guy coach, can he win without cheating, do his kids graduate, do we win, are we competitive.  That's what I care about.

[RedWebster]

Of course, that always depends on how successful the follow-up coach is.  If he fails, then the memories of the hated coach warm over rather quickly.  If he succeeds, then obviously not.

I seriously doubt memories of Crean will ever "warm over." I'm still waiting to meet somebody who actually liked him.

To your point about Majerus...nobody could ever say Rick isn't genuine.

[AlumKCof93]

The transfers sucked big time, no doubt about it.  I guess I don't understand the comment of the team losing "badly" in the NCAAs.  We had a last second shot to tie Alabama, not sure how that is losing badly.  We lost in OT to Stanford on a last second shot.  Lost to Tulsa with a last second shot to tie.  The only "bad" loss was Michigan State with our best player in a cast.  And yes, we lost badly to Kansas, of course it was also the Final Four, something we hadn't smelled in almost 30 years.  I just don't understandt the comment about losing badly.

Fans, in general get spoiled and start to hate on the coach.  At IU, many fans didn't like him.  At KU, fans were bitching about Roy because he couldn't win it.  Cowboys fans were bitching about Parcells.   It's usually not until the guy is gone when you say he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be.  Of course, that always depends on how successful the follow-up coach is.  If he fails, then the memories of the hated coach warm over rather quickly.  If he succeeds, then obviously not.

Chicos,
When I say losing badly, I'm not referring to the loss to Stanford or to Kansas (though Kansas was a terrible loss).  Instead I'm referring to Michigan State, Tulsa (we had a good team that year and came out flat), and Alabama where we dug ourselves a 20 pt deficit in the first half.  Beyond that, we played poorly in each of the post Wade BE or Conference USA tournaments until last year.  Prior to last year, the only post season game we won since Wade left was against St. John's in 2007 and that was a terrible game.  We also were lucky to survive in 2002 against Holy Cross and wouldn't have if not for Diener's heroics.  If Diener didn't come through in that game, I wonder where Crean would be now.

[wadesworld]

We also were lucky to survive in 2002 against Holy Cross and wouldn't have if not for Diener's heroics.  If Diener didn't come through in that game, I wonder where Crean would be now.

That was 2003.  The first round of the Final Four run.  I always love statements like "If ________ hadn't _______ we would've won/lost the game."   Well, ______ did _______.  It was for Diener's heroics, and then we went to the Final Four.  Not to mention that had we lost that game Wade would've stayed and we would've had the best backcourt in the country and a shot at winning the National Championship, so Crean may have been gone after the 2004 season to a higher profile job.  If it weren't for Novak's heroics in the next round we also may have lost.  And Wade's in the next two rounds.  There's always a hero in a Final Four run who if you take away what they did you probably lost somewhere in there.

I also love the people who say "OMG MOVE ON FROM CREAN HE'S GONE!"  And then make an argument.  That's just causing the conversation to continue as someone will surely react to your statements.

Hilarious.

[Marquette84]

I seriously doubt memories of Crean will ever "warm over." I'm still waiting to meet somebody who actually liked him.

To your point about Majerus...nobody could ever say Rick isn't genuine.

Majerus is a phony.  One good example:  for years he talked about the deep relationship he had with the Jesuits, but then his true colors come through when we learn that he's that he's a big fan of abortion.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n11500783

Yet the only concrete example you cite as to Crean being a phony is that he invited Sheets & McCarthy to speak to MU players.  But Majerus is genuine for inviting Orrin Hatch, Jon Hunstsman or George Karl.  Explain that that one.  

Say what you want about Crean--at least he didn't get his team put on NCAA probation .

[RedWebster]

"A big fan of abortion." Nice.

If you'd like, I could provide you with endless instances of Crean being the most counterfeit, disingenious person ever associated with Marquette University, but I'm trying to "let it go."

By the way, it's not the speaking to players I found objectionable.

[Nukem2]

"A big fan of abortion." Nice.

If you'd like, I could provide you with endless instances of Crean being the most counterfeit, disingenious person ever associated with Marquette University, but I'm trying to "let it go."

By the way, it's not the speaking to players I found objectionable.

Fess up or forever hold your peace.

[tower912]

Talk is cheap, Red.   Put up or shut up. 

[MUSF]

  He did well at MU and for MU, but he got paid handsomely for it and then worked his success into an incredible package at IU. 

Let me get this straight, the guy got a good job, worked hard and performed well at said job, then used that performance to get a better job.  What a dick.

[The Man in Gold]

I don't recall that you've ever offered up exactly what Crean did to you that has you on a five+ year tirade.  Can you share what you mean by "phony" or "prick".   

Which people did he "use".  What "act"?  What is his "number."

I know guys who aren't as upset with their ex-wives after they got taken to the cleaners in a divorce as you are with Crean. 

Since you're going to continue with these type of statements, could you share the details? 

I'll give it a shot...

Tom Crean is married to Joanie Crean
Joanie Crean is related to Jim Harbaugh
Jim Harbaugh was a Chicago Bear (also a Green Bay Packer for you Bear's fans)
All Chicago Bears are phony, disingenuous egomaniacs!

Tom Crean = phony, disingenuous egomaniacs.  Its simple math really.

[nola03]

Fess up or forever hold your peace.

Co-sign.

Red is acting quite childish in this manner and all would be better served if you, and 4ever for that matter, let loose with what Tom Crean did to offend you. Once it's out, it can all be laid to rest.

[MUSF]

Majerus is a phony.  One good example:  for years he talked about the deep relationship he had with the Jesuits, but then his true colors come through when we learn that he's that he's a big fan of abortion.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n11500783

I don't want to hijack a thread here but I feel compelled to raise two points.

One, I'm not sure I would characterize Majerus' view as being "a big fan of abortion."

Two, I don't think the two examples you raise are mutually exclusive.  It is in fact possible to have a deep relationship with the Jesuits and be pro-choice.

Sorry, back to Crean bashing.

[MUSF]

All of this tanning stuff is ridiculous.  The only thing that really matters in any profession that really matters is performance.  Crean performed well, and if you can't set aside your personal issues for the success of the program then the problem isn't Crean, it's you.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I seriously doubt memories of Crean will ever "warm over." I'm still waiting to meet somebody who actually liked him.

To your point about Majerus...nobody could ever say Rick isn't genuine.

I'm guessing a few folks that he's helped over the years at Children's Hospital, etc probably liked him.  Plenty didn't.  He gave us 9 good years, I hope the current one gives us 9 good years and at least as good results in the classroom, on the court, off the police blotter.

[rugbydrummer]

Let me get this straight, the guy got a good job, worked hard and performed well at said job, then used that performance to get a better job.  What a dick.

From that description, no, that person seems like a hard worker using success to move up the ladder.  However, in this case, it was disgraceful how Crean stole off into that good night.  He completely disrespected his players and did them the disservice of neglecting to notify them in person of his imminent departure.  Why any of his recruits followed him is beyond me.  It's akin to dating someone who's cheating on his/her SO and then leaves that person for you.  What kind of credibility is that?

I am grateful for the time TC put into MU Bball and associated groups (CHOW is probably grateful, too, like you said).  But as it's been said over and again, a great deal of that good was undone and forgotten by the ungainly fashion in which he took his leave.

Good riddance.