ESPN/USA Today Poll

[MUfanatic22]

The ESPN/USA Today Poll was posted on ESPN. The link is http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings. I was just wondering what everyone thought of our #17 ranking? I think they underrated us but we can prove them wrong. I would also like to note that there are 3 teams from the Big East in the top 10 and 7 in the top 25 which shows the strength of our conference. Go Marquette!

[nycwarrior]

i think 17 sounds about right. we've got a good team but there are certainly legitimate questions.

anyhow, i'd much rather hang back in the 15 - 20 range for the time being.

[Tugg Speedman]

Yes this is a good place for now ....

We SHOULD BE undefeated (7 - 0) going into #21 Wisconsin (Dec 6) and #13 Tenn (Dec 16).
(schedule http://www2.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=794016 )

If we are undefeated going into Wisc, we should move up to #10 to #12 by then.  If we lose, to any of the first seven teams, we are overrated.  Lose to more than one of the first seven, way overrated.

Beat Wisc and Tenn and start 10-0 and we could be top five!  Lose before and then to Wisc and Tenn and not ranked at all!

So, #17 is a starting point and expect big movement from their in the first three or four weeks of the season.

[Murffieus]

IMO, #17 is an underachievement from the expectations for now back when DJ, JM, WM were frosh. To add to that trio we have Hayward who just might be our high scorer and rebounder this year. However Burke rotted in the TC era as the postup talents that he came to MU with weren't developed (all he was developed to do was set picks and take dishoffs for the slam).

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Murf,

Do you think that Burke has a shot at developing now?

Or do you think Crean's "Damage has already been done".

[Dry White Toast]

I would MUCH rather be under the radar at this point in the season.  This is the poll with the least meaning all year, save something out in July.  Plenty of time to beef up the ranking before the gauntlet of the BE season begins.  Then our ranking may start to look like a stock chart over the last two months.

[Murffieus]

Murf,

Do you think that Burke has a shot at developing now?

Or do you think Crean's "Damage has already been done".

I think one of Burke's problems is that he lifted weights too much and lost significant arm & upperbody agility.
He's got Arm & Hammer arms.

The weight lifting has made him more explosive though going toward the glass for offensive rebounds and taking the dish for the slam.

I think Otule has a great deal of upside----he's already a decent postup-----I hope they don't make the same mistake with him on the weight lifting-----lifting regularily with smaller amount of weights with a lot of reps builds strength-----trouble is when in the weight room there is competition of who can do the most reps with larger amount of weights----doing that consistently hurts agility!

[THEGYMBAR]

Burke's problem is that he has ZERO talent.

[Hards Alumni]

Burke's problem is that he has ZERO talent.

+1

anyone that expects a big year from Burke will be disappointed.

[Henry Sugar]

Here are Burke's stats over the last three years.  Last year was the first year he was a "winning player".  His defense has gotten better every year, and his offense was noticeably better last year. 

He was the best offensive rebounder on the team the last two years.  Burke's issue is that he commits a turnover roughly one out of three possessions, but his first year he was at about one out of two possessions.  All this has happened while he has increased his percent of minutes played. 

I'm not expecting a big year, but I do expect him to be a positive contributor to the team. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think one of Burke's problems is that he lifted weights too much and lost significant arm & upperbody agility.
He's got Arm & Hammer arms.

The weight lifting has made him more explosive though going toward the glass for offensive rebounds and taking the dish for the slam.

I think Otule has a great deal of upside----he's already a decent postup-----I hope they don't make the same mistake with him on the weight lifting-----lifting regularily with smaller amount of weights with a lot of reps builds strength-----trouble is when in the weight room there is competition of who can do the most reps with larger amount of weights----doing that consistently hurts agility!

Fair enough.

At the risk of turning this thread into an argument, I just want to point something out.

Logic 101:

Last year, you still stated that Burke had the best post moves and Crean needed to better utilize him because he could be effective.

More recently, you have seen Buzz's offense and stated that post players are much more involved.

The logical conclusion would then be that you think Burke should have a good year because Buzz is involving him in the offense much more.


In recent posts, it seems to me like you are trying to find a way out of that conclusion saying something about how Burke has lifted too many weights.

I guess the question I have is: hasn't Burke roughly been the same size since soph. year? Has he really grown that much from the day Tom Crean left to the day that Buzz arrived? He's now added enough muscle to remove himself from the "best post moves player"?

Are you just using the "weights" thing to possibly explain why Burke might not be the post player you thought?

Couldn't you just say something like, "He's not as talented as I had originally thought"?

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing your assertion that weights can effect a player's ability (that is simply your opinion, I don't know if I agree or not), I'm really just pointing out the timing of your conclusion about Burke's abilities (or lack there of).

I didn't hear you saying that Burke was too muscular a year ago, and I don't recall it from 2 years ago, but now that he is actually going to be involved in the offense, you are making some statements about how he has limited abilities because of the weight lifting program Tom Crean had him on.

This just seems too convenient.

You state that he's under-utilized.
Now he's about to be utilized.
Now you say he's too big to be effective.

[chapman]

#16 in the AP poll...  http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/polls/ap

[Hards Alumni]

Fair enough.

At the risk of turning this thread into an argument, I just want to point something out.

Logic 101:

Last year, you still stated that Burke had the best post moves and Crean needed to better utilize him because he could be effective.

More recently, you have seen Buzz's offense and stated that post players are much more involved.

The logical conclusion would then be that you think Burke should have a good year because Buzz is involving him in the offense much more.


In recent posts, it seems to me like you are trying to find a way out of that conclusion saying something about how Burke has lifted too many weights.

I guess the question I have is: hasn't Burke roughly been the same size since soph. year? Has he really grown that much from the day Tom Crean left to the day that Buzz arrived? He's now added enough muscle to remove himself from the "best post moves player"?

Are you just using the "weights" thing to possibly explain why Burke might not be the post player you thought?

Couldn't you just say something like, "He's not as talented as I had originally thought"?

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing your assertion that weights can effect a player's ability (that is simply your opinion, I don't know if I agree or not), I'm really just pointing out the timing of your conclusion about Burke's abilities (or lack there of).

I didn't hear you saying that Burke was too muscular a year ago, and I don't recall it from 2 years ago, but now that he is actually going to be involved in the offense, you are making some statements about how he has limited abilities because of the weight lifting program Tom Crean had him on.

This just seems too convenient.

You state that he's under-utilized.
Now he's about to be utilized.
Now you say he's too big to be effective.

I agree with you.

saying he was the best big man on Marquette's team is like saying he was the BEST BIG MAN ON MARQUETTE'S TEAM.

he was never supposed to be good, and he is what he is... a roleplayer.  just like Fitz was, just like a lot of players... trying to rationalize with convenient statistics does not change what he is on the basketball court... a role player.

[Murffieus]

hard to win when your postup is a "role player"----but that's what he was in TC's offense-----however in Buzz's offense more is expected of a postup than just playing a role!