Yesterday Was Fun but...

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. B

I am glad they won the BET and was caught up in the moment. Plus, I think there was a personal motivation for Shaka to win it and am glad they did. Now, they do not need to do it again this season to keep my attention.

Programs like Nova and UCONN expect to be in the BET final. So should Marquette. The media and recruiting potential is massive.

Fans and schools remember NCAA runs (or flame outs), but success comes from building blocks. I know you are an all in type of guy, but I don't agree with you essentially downplaying the importance of the season or BET. This idea of a crapshoot is silly imo (and fool's gold).

[wadesworld]

Programs like Nova and UCONN expect to be in the BET final. So should Marquette. The media and recruiting potential is massive.

Fans and schools remember NCAA runs (or flame outs), but success is comes from building blocks. I know you are an all in type of guy, but I don't agree with you essentially downplaying the importance of the season or BET. This idea of a crapshoot is silly imo (and fool's gold).

This.

Kansas, Villanova, etc. have had absolutely no problem making deep Tourney runs after winning conference regular seasons and tournament titles.

[wisblue]

I put the conference tournament in a completely different category than the regular season.

Winning the regular season championship means generally excellent play over 20 games and guarantees that there were several very entertaining wins.

Winning the conference tournament was unique for MU because it was their first appearance in the high profile Saturday night title game and provided some additional validation for the regular season title.

I would take the regular season title over the tournament title any time, but getting both was nice.

But I would rather have a regular season conference title over a middling season capped by winning just 2 or 3 games in the NCAA. I know I'm in the minority on that.

[MU82]

From the vibe I'm getting on Scoop, most of us would choose NCAAT success at this point - would gladly trade a first-round BET exit for, say, an appearance in the Sweet 16 and beyond.

But it doesn't work like that. None of us gets to make that choice. Shaka and his players don't get to make it, either. As wades said, plenty of teams have done well in both.

For me, personally, I've never cared all that much about conference tournaments because I've always valued the regular season far more. Not just the Big East, but all of them. It was one of the things I agreed with Bobby Knight about - the Big Ten was one of the last to adopt a conference tournament, and Knight said it was a dopey way to decide a conference champion after months and months of teams going head-to-head during a long season.

[brewcity77]

But it doesn't work like that. None of us gets to make that choice. Shaka and his players don't get to make it, either. As wades said, plenty of teams have done well in both.

Effectively, they do, or at least their actions will control how that comes out.

[Shooter McGavin]

Programs like Nova and UCONN expect to be in the BET final. So should Marquette. The media and recruiting potential is massive.

Fans and schools remember NCAA runs (or flame outs), but success comes from building blocks. I know you are an all in type of guy, but I don't agree with you essentially downplaying the importance of the season or BET. This idea of a crapshoot is silly imo (and fool's gold).

This is where I am at.  Great programs can and do both. 

[Daniel]

This is where I am at.  Great programs can and do both.

Winning is a good culture.....

[barfolomew]

This is where I am at.  Great programs can and do both.

I think it would be grammatically correct to say "... can and do do...", but we wouldn't want to rile up the anti-Stevie crowd.

[MU82]

Effectively, they do, or at least their actions will control how that comes out.

Not really. They always choose to win. But they might try really hard but not be able to hit shots. And the opponent -- which also chooses to win -- has a say, too.

[rocky_warrior]

Not really. They always choose to win. But they might try really hard but not be able to hit shots. And the opponent -- which also chooses to win -- has a say, too.

I'm pretty certain that's not how choice works. 

[CTWarrior]

I put the conference tournament in a completely different category than the regular season.

Winning the regular season championship means generally excellent play over 20 games and guarantees that there were several very entertaining wins.

Winning the conference tournament was unique for MU because it was their first appearance in the high profile Saturday night title game and provided some additional validation for the regular season title.

I would take the regular season title over the tournament title any time, but getting both was nice.

But I would rather have a regular season conference title over a middling season capped by winning just 2 or 3 games in the NCAA. I know I'm in the minority on that.

Your take is reasonable.

Personally, I like when we win stuff.  I want to win the Big East regular season crown.   Very much.  I want us to win the BET, also very much.

I want us to advance in the NCAA tournament as far as possible, very very much.  Last year we one the BET.  I think a trip to the Elite 8 would be forgotten a lot sooner than a BET championship.

BUt in the end I don't differentiate, I want badly to win them all.  But in terms of where I would rank them

1.  NCAA championship
2.  Final Four
3.  Big East Regular Season championship
4.  Big East Tournament Championship
5.  Elite 8
6.  Sweet 16
7.  NIT championship
8.  Round of 32
9.  Make the NCAAs

[wisblue]

Your take is reasonable.

Personally, I like when we win stuff.  I want to win the Big East regular season crown.   Very much.  I want us to win the BET, also very much.

I want us to advance in the NCAA tournament as far as possible, very very much.  Last year we one the BET.  I think a trip to the Elite 8 would be forgotten a lot sooner than a BET championship.

BUt in the end I don't differentiate, I want badly to win them all.  But in terms of where I would rank them

1.  NCAA championship
2.  Final Four
3.  Big East Regular Season championship
4.  Big East Tournament Championship
5.  Elite 8
6.  Sweet 16
7.  NIT championship
8.  Round of 32
9.  Make the NCAAs

Your list is pretty close to what I would say except that I would put winning the NIT somewhere between the bottom of the list and off the list.

[CTWarrior]

Your list is pretty close to what I would say except that I would put winning the NIT somewhere between the bottom of the list and off the list.

LIke I said, I like winning things.  I know I'm in the minority, but I'd rather win the NIT than lose in the first round of the NCAAs. 

OTOH, I think we're getting to the point where the big time schools treat the NIT like they do the lower football bowls, so whatever meaning the NIT did have it probably doesn't anymore, so I could be talked out of my stance.  I remember watching us lose to Virginia Tech in the NIT Final in MSG in the 90s and being very disappointed.  Would have loved winning that.

[PGsHeroes32]

LIke I said, I like winning things.  I know I'm in the minority, but I'd rather win the NIT than lose in the first round of the NCAAs. 

OTOH, I think we're getting to the point where the big time schools treat the NIT like they do the lower football bowls, so whatever meaning the NIT did have it probably doesn't anymore, so I could be talked out of my stance.  I remember watching us lose to Virginia Tech in the NIT Final in MSG in the 90s and being very disappointed.  Would have loved winning that.

This is one stance you should not need to be talked out of, just get out of it.

NIT is nonsense.

[MU82]

I think a trip to the Elite 8 would be forgotten a lot sooner than a BET championship.

I guess it depends who's doing the remembering and forgetting.

I have very fond memories of our run to the 2013 Elite Eight. The win over Davidson is one of the most amazing comebacks I've ever seen, the win over a very good Butler team in the next round was thrilling, and the domination of Miami (which my wife and I witnessed in D.C.) was wonderful.

The 2013 team was also boosted by having won a share of the BE regular-season title on Vander's winning shot, so that was cool, too.

Very fond memories.

You really like titles, and so do I, but I REALLY like NCAAT wins. Even a Sweet 16 appearance is pretty great to me, and anything beyond that is wonderful. Final Four is nirvana. A natty ... wow!

[brewcity77]

Not really. They always choose to win. But they might try really hard but not be able to hit shots. And the opponent -- which also chooses to win -- has a say, too.

Like I said, their actions will control how that comes out. They still have to perform those actions successfully, and in doing so prevent their opponent from performing their actions successfully, but they do have the ability to determine those outcomes.

That said, they do not perform those actions in a vacuum, but they have far more control over it than anyone else, certainly anyone in this conversation.

[MU82]

Like I said, their actions will control how that comes out. They still have to perform those actions successfully, and in doing so prevent their opponent from performing their actions successfully, but they do have the ability to determine those outcomes.

That said, they do not perform those actions in a vacuum, but they have far more control over it than anyone else, certainly anyone in this conversation.

Well, your last point is ridiculous.

Everybody knows that fans control the action - especially if they talk about something other than the next game. That's as good as guaranteeing a loss in the upcoming game. Duh.

[brewcity77]

Well, your last point is ridiculous.

Everybody knows that fans control the action - especially if they talk about something other than the next game. That's as good as guaranteeing a loss in the upcoming game. Duh.

Maybe Muggsy does, but I certainly don't.